quicksilver

Fodorites! It's been too long.

I've booked a pretty spontaneous trip to France: work and personal stars lined up with an airfare I couldn't refuse. So I'm asking for help prior to my usual thorough research--please forgive me!

Even more spontaneously, I'm including a picnic near Nantes in my trip. (It's not every day I get to cavort about a Loire château, so I accepted an invitation to travel 300+ km from Paris to go eat and drink with strangers. Life's funny!)

THE QUESTION: How would you spend your time between a Thursday night event in Paris (depart Friday morning) and reporting to Ancenis for picknicking on Sunday by 10 or 11 a.m.? I think getting there is half the fun, so here are some options I'm toying with:

1. Go directly to Nantes on Friday morning. Two nights. Accommodation possibly at Le Grand Hôtel de Nantes. There's a train out to Ancenis Sunday morning, arriving around 9:00.

2. Pick a Loire town for Friday, stay overnight, to Nantes on Saturday morning. Considering Blois or Amboise, open to other suggestions.

3. No Nantes. I'm leaning against this--heard nice things about Nantes--but open to persuasion otherwise. It would allow me to perhaps see two Loire towns instead of one. Or three instead of two, even?

Factors to consider:

- No car will be involved in this process--must be train/bus friendly.

- My ideal "vibe" is a pastoral, outdoorsy or small-town experience. I realize this might be an uphill battle without a car. If I ended up somewhere that I could rent a bicycle or take a short, guided horseback ride (I'm a novice), that would be amazing.

- Not interested in spending a bazillion dollars.
* Accommodation suggestions if any should be in Fodors "¢"-"$" range, please--"$$" if it's an exceptional experience. All I need is a clean, safe place with four walls and a roof.
* I'm willing to spend a little more on one fine meal, especially the kind of thing that's difficult to find at home. My general strategy is to balance out the expense by locating bread and cheese and and just nibbling for the rest of the day.
My fantasy of hiring an equestrian company to create a custom itinerary taking me from Orléans to Ancenis on horseback will have to wait 'til, oh, my next lifetime.

- I'm comfortable speaking French--small towns where English might be hard to come by are OK.

Many thanks in advance for your speedy opinions and suggestions! Ideally, I'd like to book my accommodations by this Friday. I look forward to "repaying" you as richly as I can with observations from the road.

Much love!

- Quicksilver -

PalenQ

Amboise would be my favorite after biking several times and motoring many times all around this area of the Loire. Amboise has great train service from Paris and Tours - its own formidable chateau awesomely overlooking the Loire - and things like the Clos Luce (sp?) where Leonardo da Vinci spent his final days after being brought here by Francois I who was living I believe in the town chateau. Chenonceau(x) is just about 15 miles away thru the forest - if active rent a bike - or you can go via St-Pierre-des-Corps by train from Amboise - or take a trian to Azay-le-Rideau, Blois, Chinon, etc. There are also mini-bus tours that cart you around to various castles for a half- or full day -basically providing transportation to and from the castles and your hotel - cyheck out www.ACCODISPO.com for one that has been around a long time - and these are rather nicely priced. For fancy digs check out the perennially popular Chateau du (de) Prey just downstream from the town chateau. If you are coming to and from Paris and are taking other train trips in France then check out the France Railpass - for lots of great info on French trains and passes and regular tickets, etc check out these fab IMo sites - www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. Ch eck www.voyages-sncf.com for schedules and regular train fares.

Beloo

Blois and Amboise are good historical choices, but even by train, you can reach the lovely Chenonceaux castle !
You'll have a TGV for Tours (St-Pierre des Corps) leaving Paris à 9h10, and after a short change, you're in Chenonceaux at 10h30. The main entrance is not far form the station.

At the end of afternoon, you can take train to Angers (2h00), spent the night in Angers (nice city), visiting the castle early in the morning, and few minutes after, being in Ancenis (or in Nantes).

gwan

I thought the Clos Lucé was wildly overrated (especially if the whole upper floor is still closed), whereas I found Blois Chateau charming. Chenonceau is lovely, definitely worth a daytrip.

I'm a bit biased towards Tours, since I live here, but it is a nice central small city with a real life of its own over and above the tourists (except in the dead of summer, when everyone who lives here leaves and the tourists arrive), and it's well-placed in transport terms. However, it doesn't fit your pastoral/small town thing as well, so if you want that sort of full-immersion thing rather than day trips, probably head elsewhere. As small towns go, I have a soft spot for Chinon (surtout the wine!) which is a charming little place. Everyone seems to have their favourites in the Loire Valley though! I have heard lots of nice things about Loches (particularly in constrast to touristy Amboise) but have yet to visit.

Nantes, for me, was not exceptional. It's a decent enough city, but nothing really stands out from my trip there. I had a good time, but most of that was just being there with an old friend, I'm not sure I would have enjoyed it as much alone.

PalenQ

Tours I too think is a much overlooked city that rarely it seems figures into folks Loire Valley plans - I would not call it a small city though but for a largish city - the largest city in this part of the Loire and a commercial hub that can have horrendous traffic snarls during rush hours - it is a university town with a really charming old-town center - kind of like the Latin Quarter with its many restaurants and outdoor cafes - even from an Amboise base you can hop the train to Tours easily and spend a few hours in this most pleasant city.

gwan

PalenQ - guess it depends on your ideas on city sizes I never find the traffic to be all that bad, not having a car helps I suppose (at the moment though there is a lot of work going on in certain areas for the tram line that they are building, notably on the Rue Nationale, which affects some bus routes, although it's not really a big deal in my opinion). Anyway, the city centre is easily walkable, provided you are reasonably fit.

Sarastro

Tours, as much as I like it, makes a great base only if you are trying to travel without a car which is what the OP is looking for. The most charming part of the city is that area between Tours Centre (the train station) and Place Plumereau or Old Tours. Outside of this area Tours is about business or daily life and not particularly charming for tourists but it does have excellent shopping, a few museums, and some good restaurants. Tours is also very centrally located for visiting the area's châteaux: Chambord, Chenonceau, Cheverny, and Blois to the east and southeast and/or Villandry and Azay le Rideau to the west. Some of these locations are available by train: Blois and Chanonceau for example but the Office de Tourisme has a list of possible touring options:

http://www.ligeris.com/

quicksilver

Thanks so much, folks! I'm considering Tours as well, now.

Can anyone recommend a specific place they've used for Loire Valley cycling or horseback riding in the past? Preferably one with a website, which I'm finding surprisingly difficult when researching horses.

Has anyone visited, or stayed in, smaller places such as Meung-sur-Loire while travelling by train? Anyone want to weigh in on the merits of Chinon, which is another option?

You're wonderful!

- Quicksilver -

StCirq

Tours does have a small but delightful inner old section, but I avoid the place like the plague because of the detestable traffic (I'm always in a car). And given the wealth of choices in the Loire, I see no reason to go back there.

Chinon is delightful. Amboise used to be, and it still is very convenient, but it sure has become a tourist mecca over the years. I absolutely love the Clos Lucé and have visited it about a dozen times. Also love the château at Amboise. Blois is a good base, too, and not as crowded as Amboise.

I googled ferme équestre val de loire on French google and got this. Lots to choose from!

http://www.google.fr/#hl=fr&xhr=t&q=...d62ae66863077c

You could do the same for bicycle hire by typing in location vélo val de loire.

quicksilver

Thanks StCirq--I'm starting to lean toward Blois. I had been searching for équitation Loire, but many of the results were "clearing house" type sites that provided contact information, often with only a phone number but no website, or a website that didn't work. The places I did find were largely offering competitive classes for jumping, dressage etc. I'm trying randonée équestre as a search term now and it's working better: I found the Comité Départemental de Tourisme Equestre and that seems like a good lead.

Nevertheless, if anyone has a personal recommendation it will save me a lot of research time.

Thanks, all!

PalenQ

Tours and Blois simply do not have 1/10th the charm of smaller Amboise - Amboise is situated on one of the sweetest stretch of the Loire River, which flows like a wild-looking sandy course here - Blois and Tours are simply largish towns - Amboise is the type of place most folks dream of staying but rarely do.
Blois I find especially boring and for France one of its less romantic cities.

Sarastro

Amboise has been absolutely inundated by tourists, has few to no remarkable restaurants (with the possible exception of l'Epicerie which is very good), has awkward transportation access (no TGVs), and has very few options for visiting châteaux.

It's own château was 80% destroyed during the Revolution and the primary building that remains is best viewed from across the Loire. The bulk of the shopping here is in tourist trinkets and unless you are going to stay at le Choiseul (an excellent hotel and the only reason to go to Amboise), I wouldn't even recommend a short visit unless you have loads of time. Le Clos Luce is probably the most over-hyped venue in the Loire Valley with absolutely nothing remaining of Leonardo's and trades primarily on his name only.

For someone who has limited time and wants to visit châteaux, the only two locations with a good selection of tours, hotels and restaurants is either Blois or Tours. I give the edge to Tours where there can be traffic but for someone who visits without a car, it is pointless to even mention.

quicksilver

"on one of the sweetest stretch of the Loire River, which flows like a wild-looking sandy course here... the type of place most folks dream of staying but rarely do." Mmmmmm...

Part of the appeal of Blois is a direct train to Ancenis on the Sunday morning--I have an early departure. If I'm not mistaken, I'd have to backtrack from Amboise and change trains.

I would have loved to head straight from Paris to Amboise on the Friday, explore and then go back to Blois as a base--but TripAdvisor forum says there are no luggage lockers at Amboise station. Perhaps I'll do one night in each, though I'm not a huge fan of pulling up stakes every day when I'm on the road.

As always, many thanks. Please keep your Loire dreams coming; not just the advice but the inspiration is invaluable!

PegS

Thanks all. I'm followning this thread avidly as well. Like the OP I'm looking at a Loire Valley trip sans car and thinking of staying overnight in one city so I can see 2-3 chateaux without killing ourselves. I was settled on Tours at first from reading here and on TripAdvisor, from but then picked up a Rick Steves where he pushes hard for Amboise. It totally confused me but I think I'm back to using Tours. Plus, if Rick Steves is pushing for Amboise, and it's a small town, I can certainly see it being tourist-heavy.

quicksilver

Whoops, didn't see Sarastro's response before posting my own. Any restaurants that stand out particularly in Blois? Thanks!

PalenQ

Amboise has awkward transportation access (no TGVs), and has very few options for visiting châteaux>

Misinformation IMO - the rail access to Amboise and Blois is about exactly the same - served by the same trains on the Paris-Les Aubrais/Orleans/Blois/Amboise/ St-Pierre-des-Corps rail line which does not have any TGVs on - Blois is not served by TGVs as Sarastro implies!

And Amboise is closer to Paris in rail time - being closer to St-Pierre-des-Corps where TGVs from Paris end up.

And Amboise has better access to many chateaux than does Blois - Blois has basically no public transit access to any chateaus except for the same rail lines that serves Amboise - in summer Blois has dedicated buses to Chambord but at other times of the year zilch - none.

So except for Chambord in the peak summer period there is no chateau except for Blois' itself, that is easier to get to from Blois than from Amboise - in fact by train you must first go to and thru Amboise to get to the likes of Chenoncau, Chinon, Azay-le-Rideau, etc.

Amboise does have a lot of tourists and there is often a reason for that - it is a neat smaller town on a lovely stretch of the Loire and it has its own great chateau that is every bit as nice if not nicer than Blois chateau.

Blois is a Loire backwater for the interests of the average tourist.

Sarastro

<i>Blois is not served by TGVs as Sarastro implies!</i>

You infer that which was not implied. I clearly made a preference for Tours and direct TGV service is one of the many reasons.

<i>Amboise is closer to Paris in rail time - being closer to St-Pierre-des-Corps where TGVs from Paris end up.</i>

Again a miss statement of fact. There are TGVs directly to St Pierre des Corps but there are also TGVs directly to Tours Centre. There is an early Montparnasse to Tours Centre train that will get you to Tours in time for the mini bus tours which leave from the Office de Tourisme just across the street from Tours Centre. You may confirm this information by checking the schedules yourself:

www.voyages-sncf.com

<i>Blois has basically no public transit access to any chateaus except for the same rail lines that serves Amboise</i>

Firstly, Château Blois is architecturally more interesting that what remains of Château Amboise and now contains an important musée des beaux arts, in the Louis XII wing, of both painting and sculpture.

Secondly, neither Blois nor Amboise has easy public transportation to châteaux, but Tours does and it is another reason I give the edge to Tours over either Blois or Amboise.

<i>Blois is a Loire backwater for the interests of the average tourist.</i>

This is very subjective PalenQ and a totally unfair comparison. Blois has the proximity to three important châteaux that Aboise does not: Blois, Cheverny, and Chambord but more importantly, there are a good number of mini bus tours which depart from Blois that are simply not available from Amboise.

http://www.bloispaysdechambord.com/f...ocars/minibus/

Obviously you have your personal prejudices in selecting Amboise over any other destination and for calling Blois a <i>Loire backwater</i> and that is fine but when I read a question from a poster, I try to answer the question using my knowledge of and experience in a specific area. It is for this reason only that I believe that for someone visiting the Loire Valley without a car, his is well served by choosing Tours as a base. If someone has a car and other specific objectives, my response will very likely change according to the needs of the poster.

PalenQ

there are a good number of mini bus tours which depart from Blois that are simply not available from Amboise.>

This is simply not true - there are as many or more from Amboise, which makes sense since in your words so many tourists stay in Amboise - there are at least as many from Amboise as from Blois and yes Amboise is closer to Paris by time by train - not talking anything about mini-bus tours from Tours - but simply it is quicker from Paris to go to Amboise than it is to go to Blois - note all TGVs from Paris to Tours centre all stop first at St-Pierre-des-Corps - all. You bit about going to Tours central station - a deadend station is irrelevant to whether it is quicker from Paris to Amboise or Blois - check schedules yourself for Paris to Amboise via TGV to St-Pierre-des-Corps and transfer to local train to Amboise and via Les Aubrais-Orleans from Austerlitz.

Yes I have been to Blois many many times and since the chocolate factory stopped their tours there is very very little in that dreary town besides granted its imposing chateau - but in Loire terms a lesser chateau even though it is, as palaces go across Europe, very nice. Cheveny attracts relatively little touristic interest but its Soupe des Chiens or mass feeding of the hunting dogs is unique.

Tours I grant is a utilitarian base though except for its vest-pocket nicely restored old town center another dud for tourists - big city feel as witnessed by its horrendous traffic.

Chinon would be my preferred base - the nicest city in this part of the Loire IMO - a lovely lovely town with rail and bus links to several very close castles, like Villandry and Usse.

Chaumont BTW is an often overlooked Loire castle - smack on the main rail line between Amboise and Blois. Usse, or the Sleeping Beauty Castle that Disney in part modeled his Disney World castles after perhaps - that is murky, along with Segovia, Spain's castle - anyway to say that Blois is a better base for utilitarian reasons over Amboise is simply not correct - and I would bet my last sous on there being as many mini-bus tours from Amboise as Blois in fact more since Amboise has many many more tourists than Blois.

I lived in the part of the Loire every summer for a decade and biked and drove incessantly thru it - Blois ain't much!

quicksilver

I now think I would have most liked to spend Friday night in Chinon, Saturday night in Tours (for easy access to Ancenis early Sunday). Not a lot of initial luck finding accommodation in Chinon at the last minute, though--suggestions, anyone?

@PalenQ: Is the transfer via St-Pierre-des-Corps on the way to Chinon a difficult one? I can read a French-language sign and I'm as smart as the average bear, I suppose, but even so, this looks like a very tight timeline to get from--what is it--one station to another via shuttle?

Backup plan may be to cab out from Blois to accommodation in the Chambord/Cheverny area. It gives me my bucolic setting, I've found a place near Cheverny that will apparently take me on a horseback promenade, and I know I can rent a bicycle at Chambord. If Chinon doesn't come through for me with somewhere to stay at this late date, its charms may have to wait 'til the next trip, alas.

PalenQ

The transfer at St-P-des-Corps is a snap as the navettes - shuttle trains from Tours station in town stop IME right opposite the other train - but are you sure the train to Chinon goes via St-P-des-Corps - it may not - I'll check on that.