Budget Airline Question
Apr 2nd, 2004, 05:14 PM
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Apr 2nd, 2004, 05:21 PM
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Well I can't really "recommend" volareweb.com since they just screwed me but they are a budget airline that flies from many locations in Italy. Don't know if they do the route you are looking for or not. If they do you might want to consider them as they seem to be very similar to Ryan Air.
However, be aware that tickets on all these budget airlines are non-refundable and they sometimes have rather major schedule changes. I had booked flights with mid-day times from Venice to Prague and Prague to Milan for next July. I booked them about a month ago. I just got an email from them regarding a schedule change. My flight now gets into Prague at 10:00pm and the flight into Milan, instead of being from 1-3pm which is what it was when I boought the ticket, is now from midnight to 2am! There is no way I can work around these times so I've now purchased tickets on Czech airlines - and just hope they don't do the same thing! However, the tickets are quite cheap so even though I'm out about $120 it's not the end of the world. Just something to be aware of when booking tickets on these budget airlines.
However, be aware that tickets on all these budget airlines are non-refundable and they sometimes have rather major schedule changes. I had booked flights with mid-day times from Venice to Prague and Prague to Milan for next July. I booked them about a month ago. I just got an email from them regarding a schedule change. My flight now gets into Prague at 10:00pm and the flight into Milan, instead of being from 1-3pm which is what it was when I boought the ticket, is now from midnight to 2am! There is no way I can work around these times so I've now purchased tickets on Czech airlines - and just hope they don't do the same thing! However, the tickets are quite cheap so even though I'm out about $120 it's not the end of the world. Just something to be aware of when booking tickets on these budget airlines.
Apr 2nd, 2004, 05:57 PM
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Isabel, I think you should be able to get a refund with a major schedule change, even on a budget carrier. I've heard of people doing that with Ryanair when the schedule was changed. Did you give it a try? If you don't get anywhere with volareweb, try your credit card company.
Apr 3rd, 2004, 04:53 AM
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No refunds means no refunds. You agree to the terms when buying the ticket.
The following is from their website:
<b>13.10 The carrier undertakes to use its best efforts to carry passenger and baggage with reasonable dispatch. Times shown in timetables or elsewhere are not guaranteed and not part of this contract. The carrier may without notice substitute alternate carriers or aircraft, and may alter or omit stopping peaces shown on the ticket in case of necessity. Schedules are subject to change without notice. The carrier assumes no responsibility for making connections.</b>
The CC option will be a waste of time. I wish peole would realize that the <b>ONLY</b> time the CC will stand up for the customer is when you are cheated or a non-delivery of a product/service. You bought the economy airline ticket that came with announced conditions. You <i>AGREEED</i> to the T&C sometime during the purchase. Now you have to live with it.
The following is from their website:
<b>13.10 The carrier undertakes to use its best efforts to carry passenger and baggage with reasonable dispatch. Times shown in timetables or elsewhere are not guaranteed and not part of this contract. The carrier may without notice substitute alternate carriers or aircraft, and may alter or omit stopping peaces shown on the ticket in case of necessity. Schedules are subject to change without notice. The carrier assumes no responsibility for making connections.</b>
The CC option will be a waste of time. I wish peole would realize that the <b>ONLY</b> time the CC will stand up for the customer is when you are cheated or a non-delivery of a product/service. You bought the economy airline ticket that came with announced conditions. You <i>AGREEED</i> to the T&C sometime during the purchase. Now you have to live with it.
Apr 3rd, 2004, 10:10 AM
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That term is in the contract, but does that mean they can change it to any schedule whatsoever? What if they changed the flight to another day?Surely there are some limits on reasonableness.
I have heard of passengers who were able to get a refund from Ryanair when there was only a slight change in time.
I have heard of passengers who were able to get a refund from Ryanair when there was only a slight change in time.
Apr 3rd, 2004, 10:34 AM
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WillTravel,
You may have <i>heard</i> of RyanAir passengers getting a refund, but I doubt their story. Here is part of their T&C specifically dealing with refunds:
<b>All monies paid (including taxes, fees and charges) are non-refundable ? except in circumstances where Ryanair cancels a flight.
If flights are cancelled by Ryanair and no suitable alternative flight is available, we will refund all monies paid in respect of the cancelled flight in accordance with our General Conditions of Carriage. Ryanair does not provide meal vouchers or hotel accommodation for delayed or cancelled flights at any time.</b>
But my real point in the previous post was about challenging the charges through the CC company. Any transaction is possible to challenge, but the CC company will be given the T&C of the airline to which the purchaser agreed to when purchasing the ticket, and it will be the end of the story. The charges will stand.
Should the purchaser try to get a refund from the airline? sure, will they get the refund? I doubt it. They are offering another <b><i>reasonable</i></b> flight as per their T&C. I do understand that what's reasonale to the airline may not be reasonable to you or me, but that's the chance you take with the low-budget European airlines. They clearly state their rules and actually warn you of the possibilities, and once you press the <b>Purchase</b> button, you will have to live with your decision.
You may have <i>heard</i> of RyanAir passengers getting a refund, but I doubt their story. Here is part of their T&C specifically dealing with refunds:
<b>All monies paid (including taxes, fees and charges) are non-refundable ? except in circumstances where Ryanair cancels a flight.
If flights are cancelled by Ryanair and no suitable alternative flight is available, we will refund all monies paid in respect of the cancelled flight in accordance with our General Conditions of Carriage. Ryanair does not provide meal vouchers or hotel accommodation for delayed or cancelled flights at any time.</b>
But my real point in the previous post was about challenging the charges through the CC company. Any transaction is possible to challenge, but the CC company will be given the T&C of the airline to which the purchaser agreed to when purchasing the ticket, and it will be the end of the story. The charges will stand.
Should the purchaser try to get a refund from the airline? sure, will they get the refund? I doubt it. They are offering another <b><i>reasonable</i></b> flight as per their T&C. I do understand that what's reasonale to the airline may not be reasonable to you or me, but that's the chance you take with the low-budget European airlines. They clearly state their rules and actually warn you of the possibilities, and once you press the <b>Purchase</b> button, you will have to live with your decision.
Apr 3rd, 2004, 10:45 AM
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AAFlyer, of course I can't prove what posters posted at the Eurotrip forum about getting Ryanair refunds due to schedule changes. I still disagree that the T&C are the be all and end all. Perhaps in this case the substituted flights are reasonable, and there can be no satisfaction, but that's debatable.
Judging from the T&C, there's nothing to stop Volareweb or Ryanair substituting a flight 2 weeks later than the one you choose, and I can't see that would hold up at all. One would have to look up EU regulations governing airlines.
Judging from the T&C, there's nothing to stop Volareweb or Ryanair substituting a flight 2 weeks later than the one you choose, and I can't see that would hold up at all. One would have to look up EU regulations governing airlines.
Apr 3rd, 2004, 01:24 PM
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I will agree with you on one point. The <i>reasonable</i> probably has limits. I would assume that it's probably within 24 hours, or within the same day. Most companies do have a right to set-up their own rules. They are not government regulated. It's up to the consumer to accept the terms when purchasing a ticket or go somewhere else. Here in the US, the only reason we get free vouchers, meals, hotels and refunds is because of leftover regulations when airlines were regulated by the government. Since no one airline wants to step up to the plate first and discountinue the practices, in fear of alienating their customer, everybody kept a version of the customer rights. Another reason was the threat by US Congress in 1999 to regulate customer rights that made the airlines come up with their own voluntary customer rights schemes.
The European budget airlines operate under different circumstance. They were allowed to come to life after the European Union de-regulted their members protection policies in regards to airlines. They don't have any <b>history</b> with old regulations and are allowed to pretty much do as they please. Again, it's a different atmosphere in Europe and it's actually a more real capitalist system. At the same time, it does place responsibility on the consumer to be aware of the airlines rules before commiting to a purchase. In exchange for some ridiculously low fares, the customers are learning to live with the occasional hiccups where they are extremely inconvinienced.
The European budget airlines operate under different circumstance. They were allowed to come to life after the European Union de-regulted their members protection policies in regards to airlines. They don't have any <b>history</b> with old regulations and are allowed to pretty much do as they please. Again, it's a different atmosphere in Europe and it's actually a more real capitalist system. At the same time, it does place responsibility on the consumer to be aware of the airlines rules before commiting to a purchase. In exchange for some ridiculously low fares, the customers are learning to live with the occasional hiccups where they are extremely inconvinienced.
Apr 3rd, 2004, 01:48 PM
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ira,
Somebody else my have more info on this subect, but I do believe there is a <b>cost</b> involved when you file a claim. If the ruling goes your way, no problem, but if it's ruled against you, it does go into your credit report. I'm sure 1 or 2 of these won't affect your credit rating, but it's still there. That's why it's important to make claims when you absolutely know you got cheated or the service/product was not delivered as promised, and not everytime you are unhappy.
Somebody else my have more info on this subect, but I do believe there is a <b>cost</b> involved when you file a claim. If the ruling goes your way, no problem, but if it's ruled against you, it does go into your credit report. I'm sure 1 or 2 of these won't affect your credit rating, but it's still there. That's why it's important to make claims when you absolutely know you got cheated or the service/product was not delivered as promised, and not everytime you are unhappy.
Apr 4th, 2004, 11:10 AM
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There's no fee for filing a "dispute" with the CC company, and it does not affect your credit rating in any way whatsoever. Just call the CC customer service number and they will instruct you on the process. But don't be surprised if the CC company finds a loophole to deny your claim. They're not in the business of giving away money, and if the airlines' rationale for their actions meets the CC company's criteria, guess who ends up holding the bag?? What most people don't realize is that the merchant (airlines) has more influence in this process than the cardholder, and the merchant has to agree to refund the money. The CC company does NOT refund money out of its own coffers.
Apr 4th, 2004, 11:24 AM
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I'm reminded of how a few years ago I booked a hotel in Homer, Alaska. I called a month or so after making the reservation to add an additional night, and to my surprise they couldn't find my original reservation, so they made a new one. We went, stayed, paid our bill with credit card, and to my surprise when I got home, I found they had double billed me. In addition to the bill for the three nights, there was another bill for a single night. A call to them showed that they actually had two reservations. The first one I had made had been entered with my last name and first name reversed which is why they couldn't find it. But since I had not cancelled that reservation, they insisted I owed for one night. No arguing could convince them otherwise. I disputed the charge with Citibank who communicated with them and back with me. It was Citibank's contention that it was the hotel's fault regardless of their rules, and they totally reimbursed me.
So sometimes the CC company will step in and override the decision or the rules of the merchant.
So sometimes the CC company will step in and override the decision or the rules of the merchant.
Apr 4th, 2004, 01:03 PM
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I never said there was a fee. I used the word <b>cost</b> as in you <i>paying</i> for it with your credit history if the ruling goes against you. That is true and I know it for a fact.
And you are also somewhat wrong on how the refund works. If the CC company decides in your favor, they reverse the charges on your account <b>AND</b> subtract the oppropriate amount from next months check that goes out to the merchant. That's part of a contract between the merchants and the CC companies. The CC company does not have to wait till it gets it's money back. They just collect it! Simple.
You are correct about the merchants having more influence, but I will still stand by my statement. The CC company will back you up if you were clearly taken advantage of or there was no basis for the charges (as in Patrick's case), and no merchant can override that with any amount of influence, but I dealt with theses type of claims while employed by a local resort, so I know how this works. If the hotel decided to stick with the charges, we went all the way, but we only did it if we were correct. You be amazed how many people tried to take advantage of us? They would come up with any and all reasons to try to get at some if not all the money from us, afer they enjoyed themselves for a week or whatever. Restaurant employees could also tell you some horror stories. That's why there is a <b>cost</b> involved for both sides in these type of situations and in majority of the cases this stuff gets rsolved before it even gets there, but when a customer expects a refund based on some frivilous claim, or maybe they just changed their minds, or...?? the merchant will fight for it's money and the CC companies are usually really good in making the right judgements. I'm proud to say I personally never lost a claim to a guest challenging our charges, although the hotel did loose it once during my year and a half working there. American Express is the best for customers. They were the ones we lost the claim to, although we thought we were right, but sucked it up as outside of a lawsuit there was nothing we could have done. Well, we could have dropped AE but that would not help us in the long run.
And you are also somewhat wrong on how the refund works. If the CC company decides in your favor, they reverse the charges on your account <b>AND</b> subtract the oppropriate amount from next months check that goes out to the merchant. That's part of a contract between the merchants and the CC companies. The CC company does not have to wait till it gets it's money back. They just collect it! Simple.
You are correct about the merchants having more influence, but I will still stand by my statement. The CC company will back you up if you were clearly taken advantage of or there was no basis for the charges (as in Patrick's case), and no merchant can override that with any amount of influence, but I dealt with theses type of claims while employed by a local resort, so I know how this works. If the hotel decided to stick with the charges, we went all the way, but we only did it if we were correct. You be amazed how many people tried to take advantage of us? They would come up with any and all reasons to try to get at some if not all the money from us, afer they enjoyed themselves for a week or whatever. Restaurant employees could also tell you some horror stories. That's why there is a <b>cost</b> involved for both sides in these type of situations and in majority of the cases this stuff gets rsolved before it even gets there, but when a customer expects a refund based on some frivilous claim, or maybe they just changed their minds, or...?? the merchant will fight for it's money and the CC companies are usually really good in making the right judgements. I'm proud to say I personally never lost a claim to a guest challenging our charges, although the hotel did loose it once during my year and a half working there. American Express is the best for customers. They were the ones we lost the claim to, although we thought we were right, but sucked it up as outside of a lawsuit there was nothing we could have done. Well, we could have dropped AE but that would not help us in the long run.
Apr 4th, 2004, 01:51 PM
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For a website on cheap airlines, see http://www.openjet.com/public/SearchResults.jsp
However, I then booked directly with easyjet, which was cheaper.
With respect to changes, etc.: Well, it looks like there are some new EU regulations, cf. http://europa.eu.int/comm/transport/...irlines_en.pdf
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3040432.stm (on delays and cancellations, but I'd expect soemthing on significant schedule chagnes, too.)
The Air Transport Users Council (AUC) can investigate complaints from passengers on scheduled flights. Their address is: CAA House, 45-59 Kingsway, London WC2B 6TE. Telephone 020 7240 7071.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/306/Flight%20Disruptions.pdf
However, I then booked directly with easyjet, which was cheaper.
With respect to changes, etc.: Well, it looks like there are some new EU regulations, cf. http://europa.eu.int/comm/transport/...irlines_en.pdf
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3040432.stm (on delays and cancellations, but I'd expect soemthing on significant schedule chagnes, too.)
The Air Transport Users Council (AUC) can investigate complaints from passengers on scheduled flights. Their address is: CAA House, 45-59 Kingsway, London WC2B 6TE. Telephone 020 7240 7071.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/306/Flight%20Disruptions.pdf
Apr 4th, 2004, 03:49 PM
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A few years ago I bought 2 carpets in Morocco using a credit card with the shipping as part of the sale. They never arrived. Not only did I still have to pay even after going through the dispute process, but unbeknownst to me the carpet seller had somehow gotten my purchase changed to a cash advance even though it was not indicated on the charge slip, and I was charged a cash advance fee on top of the price for the carpets. The CC company's position was that I had no way of proving that I didn't receive the merchandise, and that the seller had to have agreed to participate in the refund before they would grant it. Needless to say I was not happy, and it has left a bitter taste in my mouth regarding the reliability of the CC company's claims of customer protection.
Apr 20th, 2004, 01:24 PM
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See http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34493052 for Isabel's reasonably positive resolution of the Volare dilemma.
Best wishes,
Rex
Best wishes,
Rex
