Scott Newman

Anyone else notice that when residents of the UK talk about going to the continent, they frequently say they're going to Europe? Do they not think they're a part of Europe? Computer people can't even agree on a name for the UK; drop down menus on web sites may have the United Kingdom, England, or Great Britain. Which name is preferred & under what circumstances? This posting is from the U.S. (or is it America?) <BR>

Ann

All right I'll rise to the bait. I am British but not English. <BR> <BR>United Kingdom = Great Britain and Northern Ireland. <BR> <BR>Great Britain = England, Scotland and Wales <BR> <BR>The Europe thing is something else. I never say I am going to Europe. I wouldn't think many here do, but I may be wrong.

Patrick

Ann, thank you! I have never quite understood the exact differences, particularly between "United Kingdom" and "Great Britain", especially how Northern Ireland fit into the scheme of things. Now I think I understand perfectly. So now I know that a "Brit" cannot be from Northern Ireland, but he can be from Scotland. <BR>Now if only people could realize that Americans do not necessarily live in the US, we would all be better informed. When I travel I always try to say I'm from the United States, not just I'm an American.

Steve Mueller

Traditionally, the British have been torn between identifying with the nearby European continent and the English-speaking world (mostly former colonies- US, Canada, Australia, etc.). As an interesting aside, the last edition of the Economist polled British citizens to determine who they would prefer to rely on in a crisis. The US won over continental Europe by a margin of four-to-one.

Ann

To make things more complex, a British national has the right of abode in the UK and carries a United Kingdom passport. The word British has disappeared from the front of the new passport format.

wes fowler

I'm not certain that the two regular contributors to this forum, Tony and Sheila, would appreciate being referred to as "Brits"; might be about as bad as being called "Scotch" rather that Scottish. <BR> <BR>The English, to throw yet another identity into the picture have cause for a real identity crisis. Consider: as recently as the 18th century, George I,the King of England also claimed the title King of France, although he was in fact German and spoke no English. A predecessor to the throne William, was a Netherlander, his predecessors the Stuarts Scottish, their predecessors the Tudors Welsh and their predecessors the Plantagenets,French. "English" royalty prior to the Plantagenets and back to 1066 and William the Conquerer (from Normandy) spoke French as well. <BR> <BR>Finally, I'm not certain I've ever heard a resident of what one historian simply calls "The Isles" say he was going to Europe. I have heard "I'm going to the continent".

John

On numerous occasions I've heard folks in the UK refer to "Europe" when they mean the "Continent." It was especially prevalent before the UK joined the EEC. "Well, that's all well and good for Europe." (Add your own sneering tone.) <BR>The same grievances about a country being referred to by the name of one constituent part (e.g., "England" for UK,) is not isolated to the British Isles. We talk about "Holland" instead of the Netherlands, or, formerly, "Russia" instead of the USSR, and so on. <BR>Part of the problem is linguistic, I think. Is there an adjective form of "United Kingdom" or "United States" which rolls off the tongue as easily as "American" or "British?" <BR>When we're in Canada we make a point of asking if people accept "US" currency rather than "American" money. And I like to mention Peru when talk turns to the "Pacific Rim," as if people are only referring to Japan and other Asian states plus the US.

Patrick

Sheila and Tony, do you care to speak up about the "Brits" title? I have numerous friends from around London, and used to hesitate not knowing whether to say, "you English", "you Britishers", or what. They have told me that they prefer just the simple "Brits", so that's when I adopted it. I don't think someone from Scotland minds being called a Scot either, Scotch might be something all together different. I know I drink my share of it.

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Bjorn Alvik

I live in a tiny little European country in the outskirts of Europe, namely Norway. Every time Norwegians get out of Scandinavia, they are "going to Europe". <BR> <BR>For the last decade(s) England never has beaten Norway in soccer. <BR> <BR>At last, Norwegians live on a peninsula, not an island. Still we "go to Europe" <BR> <BR>Outskirt/not a continent/poor soccer players/not very mighty....... <BR> <BR>Can there be any connections? <BR> <BR>

Tony Hughes

A long time ago, having a British passport was a positive bonus, much less so nowadays. I'm British (and European)by default however sometimes it is useful to say I'm British. I've never thought of myself as European until I started travelling to the Unityed States frequently where I believe I'm viewed more as a European than a Scotsman (or Englishman, arrggh) <BR> <BR>Mostly, though, I'm Scottish and, if possible, I would prefer to have a Scottish Passport and be a Scottish citizen.

david west

THis is a knotty one. It is common to hear the continent referred to as "Europe", or indeed "the continenet". Strictly this is analagous to a canadian calling the US "America". <BR> <BR>However there is another usage of "Europe" that is increasingly common, being a shorthand term for the EU governement (of which we are of course a major part). You will often hear on the news something like "and in news from Europe..." when reporting on the EU Commission etc. <BR> <BR>My own feelings about this is that I am English before I am British, British before European. The only time I feel remotley "European" is during the Ryder Cup! <BR> <BR>nb check the email address to see where I think my economic interests lie!

kate

Everone you ask from the UK will have a different opinion of their national identity. My father undoubtedly sees himself as English first, I find it harder to say whether I am more English, British or European. Put in simplistic (or comlex!) terms, I will say I am British while I am "abroad" (outside the UK), when talking to a Scot or Welsh person I am English, in England I am a Londoner, and even in London I am a Northerner because I live North of the River (those living south of the river are seen as surburban). <BR> <BR>As far as being European goes, I would be interested to hear what other Europeans have to say. Obviously in the past, people from the UK have referred to the continent as Europe because we are an island nation, though in my experience this attitude is changing and many people of my generation increasingly regard themselves as European as well as (but not instead of) British. <BR> <BR>Clear as mud.

Ann

When I lived in the UK (Northern Ireland, where some of the residents do consider themselves British, others Irish, others Northern Irish, and still others from the North of Ireland!), I discovered something that provided great insight into the psyche of the English, in particular. <BR> <BR>When I would watch the Olympics or an international track and field event, I found it fascinating that the English announcers would refer to someone, say, from Scotland as British if they won an event, but Scottish if they lost! At first, I thought it was just an oversight, but I heard this again and again (also with Welsch and N. Irish) from different commentators and at different events.

Kavey

Kate has expressed much of my own viewpoint very well. <BR> <BR>I was born in England but of Indian parents (who were by then British Citizens). But my passport is British and I usually refer to myself as British on forms and when abroad if asked my nationality. As I was born in England I could also be considered to be English, though I tend not to call myself that, simply because to me, as an Asian, it tends to connote a race as much as if not more than a nationality. Not necc in a dictionary sense but in the way it is used. I sometimes find it sad that whilst people are proud to be English, Scottish, Welsh etc (which is a good thing) they are so angry and reluctant to be British. Within the UK/ Britain people tend to refer to themselves by their country as a matter of some fervour. <BR> <BR>When I am writing my address I tend to write U.K just because it is quicker or England if I am being precise. <BR> <BR>As for Europe it was previously often referred to as Mainland Europe and though the Mainland has been dropped when we refer to Europe we mean the rest of it, or mainland. Some older people still use that term or the Contintent. <BR> <BR>I tend to always say I am going to France, or Italy or wherever in the same way as I usually say I am going to Florida or California rather than The United States or America. <BR> <BR>Incidentally, I think most people refer to those of US as Americans is, as someone said, because it is hard to make an adjective of US and Canadians can use the term Canadians as can most people of South America use their country names so everyone knows what is meant by American. <BR> <BR>Hope this makes sense I am rushing as I am due to go back to my class who will be waiting for me soon. <BR> <BR>Kav <BR> <BR>

Christine

My husband was born in Scotland. His father is Welsh. His mother is from the West of England. He was raised about 50%in Wales and 50% North of London. He considers himself English. (I'm American, we now live in Switzerland, what will our children be?) And yes, I have noticed that many of his family and friends do refer to the continent as "Europe".

gluck

Thank you, Patrick, for pointing out that 'America' is a continent comprising the subcontinents of North, Central, and South America, and includes Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, Canada, to mention just a few, in addition to the United States, of.

xxx

Yes, but the US of A *is* the only country with America in its name. <BR> <BR>What do we call Americans then? Hmmm, United Statseans? Ich bin United Statsean. Je suis United Statsean...just trying it on for size.

dan woodlief

Yes, although technically Central America is part of North America. Fascinating, illuminating, and confusing discussion. Reminds me of the masters thesis a fellow grad student once wrote on the Polish identity and how Poles perceived the boundaries of their country and their places within it (of course that was a whole 'nother can of worms).

Artemis

Just have to say ... although it may be symantically inaccurate, there is absolutely *no* ambiguity about the term "American," at least not in Canada. "America" means the USA. Canadians do not think of ourselves as "Americans." If ever we need to refer to the continent of North America, we say so. If you're shopping in a store in Canada and ask if they take "American money," there's no confusion or offense. <BR> <BR>But I wouldn't be surprised if Euopeans mean "Canadians and United States residents" when they say "Americans."