bilboburgler

Markets, here in Otley (UK) we only have three "street" markets (actually we have the markets in the "market square" which is outside in all weathers) a week plus a special one one sunday a month for the wealthy to come and spend their money.

Wine, when on the continent I'm normally in wine producing regions and will often drink pichet wine as I've been tasting fine wine all day. In the UK we have few local wineries and as a result have to be wine snobs so as to survive the stuff that gets shipped here from all over the world. It took me 3 years to get my half-degree in wine and I still do homework everynight.

Air con; I live in Yorkshire.

US tipping and taxes; generally puts me off visiting. I wouldn't mind if you could haggle but basically they seem to be saying "this is the lowest amount we will accept, then the gov wants a bit more and then the guy handing you this might want something", I prefer the souk where he wants 100 direm and i want to give 10 direm.

marvelousmouse

"But we spot the American much faster..." Perhaps that is due to the prevalence of tour groups- it occurs to me that I know a lot of Americans who travel independently here but wouldn't dream of traveling without a group overseas. On the west coast we don't seem to get many of the Euro/South American tour groups I've seen in the east. But, on the other hand, I can spot a Japanese tour group from a mile away and it's got nothing to do with ethnicity or language, lol. It's the impressive array of sunhats and cameras, usually. And tour groups are an annoying blight no matter what nationality. There should be a law against tour buses stopping at Starbucks

The transit thing- yeah, I've noticed the connections sometimes are long and less than direct. But it still amazes me that so many places are served by either trains or buses. It often seems to be a question of "is it convenient" whereas here it's "does it even exist". In the US I'm very much limited to where transit goes- in Europe it seems that I have a lot more choice, but what it comes down to is how long you really want to spend on a train or bus for day trips.

fuzzbucket

The Sunday thing - I've never understood why Sunday was chosen as a day for families to spend quality time together, not working. Other religions celebrate the Sabbath, and will close accordingly.
All this is changing though, especially in the International Tourist Zones in Paris. Google this, if you want to shop on Sundays.

Many people live in small apartments and don't have room to entertain - or don't care to - or have people show up who don't know when it's time to leave.
Most people I know don't go out to eat at all unless there's a celebration or unless someone they really like comes to visit.
Most of us cannot afford to spend what tourists do for a nice dinner - average 50 EU with wine.

But I think it's nice to do, once in a great while - at least it gets you out of your apartment - and it's not difficult to budget for these occasions...
especially since most of us can make a very decent dinner at home (with wine) for under 4 EU - during the 360 days of the year that remain.

bilboburgler

ah yes
Chain hotels; it depends, I normally just want somewhere to shower, have a clean bed and possibly breakfast. I have a general rule which is "if the owner was a good cook, why would he open a hotel" so I seldom eat in hotels.

So, I choose cheap lovely chains or cheap lovely boutiques. Generally on the continent that means between E35 and E100 and normally in the E60 range.

I spent a bit of my working life in the US in staying in the large hotels and frankly I hated them, so make it local every time.

As a result I find really nice staff, fascinating decorations (often from another era), some really quirky places even chateaux. If I wanted normal,I'd stay at home.

jtpj777

Re tipping in the US:

Most embarrassing moment of whole trip was when a frosty faced bartender in San Fran actually said to me, after I had been up to the bar a couple of times for drinks and hadn't tipped him: " You know, in this country, we tip the bartender! We don't earn a living wage".

I did feel very embarrassed as I had not actually appreciated this, thinking that you only tipped for waiter service. I mentioned this to the people we were staying Air B'n B with and they seemed to suggest about one dollar tip PER DRINK. Now the aforementioned bar was VERY busy every time we were in it, with only two bartenders serving, so I reckon, if people adhered to this rule of thumb, that this bartender would be earning a LOT more than the living wage through his tips. (I should add the proviso that I am Scottish and probably sounding it!!!)

I should also add that he was an exception to our experience in the US, the majority of people we met were very polite and welcoming and very interested in talking to us: the only other impolite occasion being when someone called my wife, who was driving, a "Dumba**!", when she hesitated driving into a parking space! Changing character when one gets behind the wheel of a car is a universal problem I think!

I would say bilboburger's comment re tipping putting people from Europe off is probably true (and Brits tend to expect to tip more than, say, the French): it was a bit dispiriting looking at list prices for things only to find that the total cost, including tip could amount to much more than bargained for. Suppose this is just something that you need to get used to if coming to the US. It was particularly difficult for as as it was our first big trip in retirement and the pound sterling was at its weakest against the dollar for overy thirty years (thank you, Brexit!). We didn't let it stop us enjoying our trip tho'.

StCirq

The markets - our town has held a Tuesday market every single Tuesday since 1529. It's not taken lightly. It's not seasonal. It's part and parcel of life here, and whether it's sleeting or snowing or freezing, the market is there. Some vendors do choose not to come when the weather is bad, but that's dependent on what they're selling and how it might withstand inclement weather.

French politics - I wasn't referring to the "hijab laws," whatever they might be. We have plenty of women wearing hijabs in this neck of the woods. I was referring to the whole system, which is probably a lot simpler than the US one, but I'm still trying to navigate the municipal elections (which I'm allowed to vote in) as opposed to the national ones (which I'm not).

Sundays - it may be changing in big metropolises, but it's not changing here. It's set in stone that almost everything is closed on Sundays (why not? everyone needs a day of rest) and Monday afternoons. Thursday afternoons for a lot of stores here, too. You get used to it and work around it. After all, you don't HAVE to shop!

I know only a very few French people who have moved from their residence to another place. The ones who have inherited property almost never move. They may buy a second home somewhere but do not give up their primary residence. On the other hand, if you live in Europe you have the luxury of traveling cheaply all over the Continent.

I don't care whether "French onion soup" is truly French or not. I love it. But I make it. I don't order it at restaurants.

I have never heard of tipping the bagger at a supermarket. In France you bag your own stuff anyway.

Dukey1

Therein lies the beauty: you've "never heard" of something and because of that it must be what? Get out more.

WoinParis

You don't tip a bagger. They are no bagger anyway, exactly.
At least I have never seen one in france Belgium Slovenia Italy Germany or Poland or Spain.
Can't remember about UK.

As for Sundays it is a union thing in Belgium and france at least.
Actually a lot of people do work on Sunday's :
Workers in continuous work (feu continu we say in French) like steel factories for example
Policemen firemen army nurses doctors some garagists insurance guys dispatching the garagists people at airports train drivers taximen restaurants.
So who doesn't work ? Bankers teachers public offices and white collars.

bilboburgler

I've heard of baggers, in the UK they mainly operate as
1) a service from the store for the feeble (one day that will be me) (no tipping now)
2) when the boy scouts want some money so basically a charity event.

Now in the countries where it is a job, do you get the living wage, or is it like Uber?

Macross

Only baggers I tip are the ones at the commissary on military bases, they work for 2.13 an hour and bag your goods. A buck tip is good. We bag our own at aldi.

The employer must pay the wait staff at least $2.13 per hour as a cash wage. Always try and pay your waiter in cash not on the credit or debit card. There are some places that have a tendency not to pay the staff the tips. It is a horrible system. There is a lot about the pay scale in the US that is horrid. Ask health care workers. We just got a law passed to pay overtime to us. My employer cut our hours to 38.

Coquelicot

What impresses us most as visitors to France from the US is the level of politeness and warmth you see all over, and that extends to us visitors too. When old friends encounter each other at the market, there are happy cries and they exchange kisses and get into a long conversation. When we started returning to our favorites B&Bs and restaurants, we started getting the bise.

It's not that we're so fascinating, just that we've benefited from being from the US. Now that there's a new president-elect, I wonder if that will change how the French feel about Americans.

bilboburgler

" You know, in this country, we tip the bartender! We don't earn a living wage".

I got that once and advised the guy to join or form a union. Much to the suprise of Mrs B

Dukey1

I have never, EVER tipped anybody based on their living arrangements, whether or not they should even think about wearing a "designer" t-shirt as their kids go hungry or anything else.

I tip based on <B>what the person DID for me</B>. The rest of you are free to give your money away based on anything you want.

thursdaysd

"Tipping the bagger is not at all uncommon"

Must depend on where you live. I've lived in central NC for forty years and have never seen it. Certainly never done it. As far as I know, all staff in grocery stores are paid minimum wage (don't know about people in dept. stores on commission).

The definition of a tipped employee is not very helpful:

https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs15.pdf

marvelousmouse

The hijab laws- Stcirq- I looked it up, and it's the bit about students not being allowed to wear religious symbols in schools and the Burkini ban this past summer- it's probably a fairly minor law that gets an unusual amount of coverage where I live. I don't understand French politics in general. But of course I don't understand American politics sometimes either- although that's less about the system and more about wondering how so many morons manage to get elected.

Tipping a bagger is not something I've seen done, although I believe around here they are unionized or it's against policy or they don't exist. So that's probably why. In Washington, Oregon, CA, and a few other states, servers actually make state minimum wage ($9+) not the 2.13 federal that is often quoted. But you still tip to avoid their wrath and of course $9 is still in many places not a livable wage. Macross is right about the system being rotten- I have also seen the new regulations/fewer hours trick. I have never had a bartender act like that, though! Like Dukey1, I tip based on what they actually did- folks like your bartender, jtpj777, actually get a tip reduction from me at that point because that's not good service.

StCirq

Ah yes, marvelousmouse, I'm aware of the law about wearing religious symbols in schools, and yes it includes the hijab. But that law has been around forever; it's not something recent as far as I know (though I imagine it was revisited when Muslim children started entering French schools). It applies to crosses, stars of David, etc. Whether or not certain segments of the population take it seriously or not, I can't say. I also don't know if it applies to all schools or just public ones.

chartley

In Britain, it is common for school children to wear a uniform. In some schools with significant Muslim numbers, there is sometimes a standard colour hijab, which goes with a uniform designed to accommodate the sensitivities of different religions - like covering arms and legs. This is true of state schools as well as independent schools.

State schools which have a particular religious affiliation are nevertheless required to accept a percentage of pupils of other religions or none.

Envierges

"Must depend on where you live."

People tend to make generalizations about the US that prevail everywhere. Doesn't work. What is not uncommon in SoFla is rare in central NC.

Another thing about tipping in the US that many tourists don't know is that when they take sponsored (paying) tours of various local sights the guides are frequently "volunteers" and therefore are not being paid although the customer has paid for his tour. The use of "volunteers" eliminates a lot of paper work for the sponsoring organization. The money paid goes to the sponsoring organization. The volunteer guide depends on tips.

twk

In West Texas where I live, the baggers at grocery stores are not allowed to accept tips, even if offered. Guess there must be some regional variation.

As to why there are few street markets, there are two reasons for this:

1. Everything in the US is done on scale, to maximize economies of scale. Walmart beat out the competition by being able to sell cheaper due to economies of scale, and that philosophy is employed in all aspects of commerce. Americans are going to take the best deal, 99% of the time. Sure, there are folks who are looking for local produce, organic, and the like, but the search for quality in America usually doesn't extend beyond choosing between the "in house" brand label and the national brand label at the supermarket. We have entire grocery chains dedicated to satisfying the desires of the folks who would be most likely to patronize such markets on the same convenient basis as other chains, so that further undercuts the viability of street markets.

2. There aren't a lot of small producers who would be the most likely sellers at a street market. Outside of a few staple and niche crops, US farmers are not subsidized by the government, so farming is done by profitable ventures or not at all, and it's much easier to be profitable farming at scale then doing it on a small plot basis.

Envierges

Please explain

"State schools which have a particular religious affiliation"

In the US that would be an oxymoron.