Christina

I've flown Air France quite a few times and they are my preferred airline to Europe because their fares are usually the best, and they fly nonstop from where I live (Wash DC) to Paris. Paris is a good connection to other places in Europe, also, and their fares are often better even to other countries (ie, Prague) than some other airlines. <BR><BR>The comment about the food being inedible is simply not believable. No airline has very good food in coach since it is basically microwave meals, but Air France's food is a slight cut above other airlines (and I've flown many other carriers)--you can tell someone has given some thought to the menu as it's a little different than the norm. Plus you get free French table wine, good rolls and very good coffee for airlines (some airlines serve horrible swill as coffee, and coffee isn't even that expensive). <BR><BR>The flight attendants on every AF flight I've taken have been more professional and attentive than most airlines. They often ask if you want refills of water or coffee and even go around giving you your choice of French newspapers (no other airline I've been on offers you any reading material in your seat, you have to try to grab in coming aboard).<BR><BR>The service personnel at the gates have been occasionally brusque (I remember one guy telling me to hurry up as "time is money" very weird with a French accent), although usually not, but nothing that sticks out in comparison to other airlines.<BR><BR>I like their Airbus planes, not their other ones so much--some of their planes are getting a little shabby and they have very small seat space, I will agree (but it's no smaller than BA or many other airlines).<BR><BR>I have had my bags mislaid once by them and delayed in transit twice, all going through CDG (which I think it the problem). However, the first two times AF was also the final point and they were extremely efficient and responsive in getting the bags to me at my hotel in a very short time (and the hotel wasn't that easy to find and a distance away from the airport). I have never had an AF flight be late due to their fault--twice we were late, but once was due to the FAA in the US not letting any planes take off from Dulles and the other time is was a thunderstorm. Most of their flights have arrived a little early.<BR><BR>If I were David, the original poster, I think I would have been annoyed about the baggage delay since they do cut those 40 minute connections too close IMO, and 30 hrs to deliver sounds too long. As I said, my experience was the opposite--they delivered to me (in Aix, plane landed in Marseille) within a few hours of the bags arriving.

Jane

I love Air France. The food and wine is far superior to American or Continental (in steerage always). In my experience, their flight attendants get the job done efficiently. That's all I care about.

david

TO: St cirq;<BR><BR>I resent your attempt to attribute some ulterior motive to my orirginal message. I posted tis message for no reason other than to elicit comment and describe our experiences and not to denigrate the French. I am not one of those who believes the French are aloof or generally possess a bad attitude. I have, in fact, never had a problem with anyone in France. Yet the attitude that I noticed during this last flight was certainly one of arrogance and callousness toward us and other travellers on our flight.

david

By the way, I am still waiting for my luggage to arrive at my home. It is now 70 hours since we arrived home.

xxx

David, I agree with you.

Burta

I flew non-stop LAX-Paris round trip recently and found the Air France flights comfortable, despite the length of the trip. The food was no better or worse than other airline food I've had, but the service was very good. Maybe the trick to avoid stress on Air France is to avoid connections, if possible.

Helaine

uh-oh..we're flying airfrance beginning of August. Jacksonville, Fl. to Cincinnati to CDG to Copenhagen. Hope we get our luggage in time for our cruise!!! I know ,I know, but the tickets were free....Helaine

Sue

David, I am sorry that you had such a bad experience. <BR><BR>I have recently read an article (referred by someone here) which alerted me to the practice of many airlines, not just AF, in which the loading and unloading of baggage is subcontracted to other companies. So it may not be immediately clear just who was at fault for your baggage going missing. It is not even inconceivable that your baggage was stolen, as the article made clear that inside theft is a serious problem. (Sorry, I can't remember the name of the article now.)<BR><BR>I certainly agree that the training of airline personnel seems very inconsistent. I don't expect, in these days of cost-cutting, for the situation to improve. I do hold the upper management of airlines responsible for stupid management decisions, like ridiculous connection times. On the other hand, while I don't excuse rudeness in 'front-end' staff, I do sympathize with their being made to cope with the inevitable fallout of poor decisions in which they likely had no input. <BR><BR>

xxx

Anyone who accepts a 40-minute transfer time from an airline from an arrival at CDG to a flight to Marseilles is naive at best, incredibly dumb at worst. Almost any good guidebook has a map of the airport showing where all the landing and arrival points are, and then there is the website information showing the same. So, anyone with half a brain can figure out how far he's going to have to travel between terminals and how long that's likely to take - not like in the old days where whatever the airlines told you, you had to believe. You can actually get every detail of your voyage these days, and since you're paying many hundreds of dollars to get to Nice, you'd think you'd check on it.<BR><BR>Once having checked out what's involved in a transfer from CDG landing terminal to the terminal to Nice, you'd think David would have called Air France and given them bloody hell - I would have! Book me on the next flight, please! But no, he takes a 40-minute transfer and then comes home to gripe about how it didn't work out - well, DUH, David!! If you'd done some basic research you wouldn't have been booked on that flight.<BR>You can argue that it's the airlines' responsibility to get you on the right flights, but you gotta show some smarts yourself about connections. Don't book yourself on flights you won't likely make. ANd if the airline does, DON'T TAKE IT!! <BR><BR>And if you get screwed because of your naivet&eacute;, have the decency not to blame it on the airline.

ex

Toxx ([email protected])<BR><BR>What are you-perfect? David was told that 40 mins. was enough time to transfer. So what you're saying is that he should not have believed the airline personnel who gave him and his agent this information.<BR>How was David supposed to know that 40 mins. wasn't enough time? You act as though he is in total control of all his flight times.<BR><BR>As he mentions and what YOU should also know too, is that the passenger cannot always demand another connecting flight. It is not always possible. See below for what he said:<BR><BR> "Air France scheduled our flights to Paris and thence to Nice so that we had 40 minutes tranist time. Both myself and my agent called them to get a different flight from Paris to Nice to have more time between flights and we were both told that 40 minutes was enough and anyway they would not change the flight."<BR><BR>So stop it with your Napoleon complex and get real. <BR><BR><BR>

Chris

Our travel agent told us our approx. 1 hour connection time was a "legal connection". No, not enough to get to other side of CDG -- or through Atlanta.<BR>That's the way it was for Air France and Delta.<BR><BR>Service-wise, I always found Air France to be fine -- and all flight attendants speak English. I was on a Continental flight where the American attendant told a French speaker that she speaks "English only", and walked away. The passenger had to find someone to translate for her.<BR><BR>Air France has only lost my bag once in about 20 flights -- and it was in my possession within 6 hours.<BR><BR>After 9/11 we changed our flights 3 times (we were in France at the time and supposed to fly to the US on 9/13) -- the staff at the Air France office was always polite and helpful.<BR><BR>

david

I did, as I statde in my original post insist on changing my connection time but they totally refused ststaing that it was a "legal" time for changing flights. Even wehn we offered to pay the penalty they refused saying that I would have to re-book the entire flight from Boston to Nice and then the flight may have been fully booked and I would have no tickets.<BR><BR>I did as as ubsequent poster stated check the CDG website, asked about gates and their location and have a print-out of the CDG layout with me. But it all does no good when you rely upon people with no sympathy or knowledge of what they speak.<BR><BR>Indeed, uppoer managment sets the tone for an entire company and this is a managment fiasco.<BR><BR>86 hours since we landed in Boston and still waiting the arrival of our luggage which we have been told is on its way from Paris.

xxx

I think the problem is with the airline assuming that the connecting time between flights is the same as usual. Given the security delays nowadays more time should be given.<BR><BR>And I'm sure Air France isn't the only airline doing this. I'm to fly Lufthansa this fall and they're telling me that 55 mins. is enough connecting time for my flight to Paris from Munich. I did not believe it's enough time but everyone I speak to at Lufthansa keep saying that the time is sufficient. Then they give me the excuse that if the connection time was not possible then Lufthansa wouldn't have sold me a ticket in the first place. So even though the passenger wants to do something, the airline doesn't want to comply.

dean

My one and only Air France experience was very different. We flew to and from Roma via CDG. On the return flight, I was suffering very drastically from the stomach flu. We only had 40 minutes connection time at CDG and ouo Roma CGD flight was late. We landed just at the time when our connecting flight should have been taking off. The steward announced that there were over 100 folk from this airplance connecting to 5 other flights to the US. These planes would be held for us. When we exited there were Air France employees forming a human screen for us so we could get to the airport bus with no delay. Again we were met with a human screen at the international concourse. At the checkpoint, new lines were opened just for us so we did not have to wait in line any more than was necessary. <BR><BR><BR>We boarded the plane and there was not a lot of bin space for our voluminous carry ons. I was in a seat with a bulkhead to the rear and I just piled my stuff back there on top of someone else's. The flight attendant asked whose things these were and when I said “mine”, he asked if they could be checked. I told him they were very fragile ceramics and glass. He took me back to the flight attendant's area and allowed me to put the packages in their storage area. When I returned to my seat, there was a lady in the next row yelling at the poor flight attendant about how fragile her stuff was and how she was going to sue Air France if it got broken etc. I put my head in and said to her "hey look, this is the guy who will either find you a spot to put your stuff or make you check it." This realization made her shut up and he took her to the back of the plane and let her stash her stuff as well. I had made a friend for life with the flight attendant. We had a very bumpy flight home and he made sureI was never out of Ginger Ale and when ever the seatbelt light was turned off he made sure I got first crack at the restrooms.<BR><BR>The last good deed from Air France was that when we pushed back, the pilot said that since there were 50 people on the plane from our late flight he was going to hold the plane in the penalty box area and allow the luggage to catch up with us. He said with the weather conditions as they were he would have no problem getting us back home on time. <BR><BR>I have had wonderful and poor experiences on Alitalia, United (my regular carrier), American, Southwest etc. Stuff happens. How you deal with it often makes a huge difference with how you are treated, although there are many in the airline industry who need to be somewhere else if they don't like dealing with people. I personally won't fly Lufthansa.... unless the fare is a real steal!<BR>

dean

My one and only Air France experience was very different. We flew to and from Roma via CDG. On the return flight, I was suffering very drastically from the stomach flu. We only had 40 minutes connection time at CDG and ouo Roma CGD flight was late. We landed just at the time when our connecting flight should have been taking off. The steward announced that there were over 100 folk from this airplance connecting to 5 other flights to the US. These planes would be held for us. When we exited there were Air France employees forming a human screen for us so we could get to the airport bus with no delay. Again we were met with a human screen at the international concourse. At the checkpoint, new lines were opened just for us so we did not have to wait in line any more than was necessary. <BR><BR><BR>We boarded the plane and there was not a lot of bin space for our voluminous carry ons. I was in a seat with a bulkhead to the rear and I just piled my stuff back there on top of someone else's. The flight attendant asked whose things these were and when I said “mine”, he asked if they could be checked. I told him they were very fragile ceramics and glass. He took me back to the flight attendant's area and allowed me to put the packages in their storage area. When I returned to my seat, there was a lady in the next row yelling at the poor flight attendant about how fragile her stuff was and how she was going to sue Air France if it got broken etc. I put my head in and said to her "hey look, this is the guy who will either find you a spot to put your stuff or make you check it." This realization made her shut up and he took her to the back of the plane and let her stash her stuff as well. I had made a friend for life with the flight attendant. We had a very bumpy flight home and he made sureI was never out of Ginger Ale and when ever the seatbelt light was turned off he made sure I got first crack at the restrooms.<BR><BR>The last good deed from Air France was that when we pushed back, the pilot said that since there were 50 people on the plane from our late flight he was going to hold the plane in the penalty box area and allow the luggage to catch up with us. He said with the weather conditions as they were he would have no problem getting us back home on time. <BR><BR>I have had wonderful and poor experiences on Alitalia, United (my regular carrier), American, Southwest etc. Stuff happens. How you deal with it often makes a huge difference with how you are treated, although there are many in the airline industry who need to be somewhere else if they don't like dealing with people. I myself, however, will never fly Lufthansa again…. unless the fare is a real bargain!<BR>

david

Just a final reply before this thread is hopefully put to rest. My luggage just arrived 92 hours aftre my wife and I returned from France. The largest peice of luggage was damaged, a piece of pottery destroyed, and all of my expensive combination locks were gone.<BR>But at least we now have clothing.<BR><BR>Thanks for all your comments and support. By the way, I do accept your apology StCirq since I am sure at some point it will be offered.

Adventurer

david,I agreed with St Cirq and you won't be getting an apology from me!<BR>One flight on an airplane should not condemn the entire airline.<BR>We could say don't have anything to do with Davids, they whine too much.What would happen to all the other davids?<BR>So,just my 2 cents worth here, if you fly often,which I do and so do many others on this board, you get used to the good and the bad flights.<BR>It is all a part of the adventure.

StCirq

David: If you are not one of those "people" I referred to generally who explain AF glitches in terms meant to generalize about national characteristics, I certainly apologize.<BR><BR>But David, don't you think your opening statement, "I am writing this message to warn everyone of the attitude and ineptitude of Air France" was perhaps a bit broad? Maybe if you had qualified it with something like "the attitude and ineptitude of Air France on our recent flight" it might not have struck me as such a sweeping condemnation. Your extrapolated from one experience that AF was inept and had a poor attitude in general. <BR><BR>As you have now read, plenty of people have had good experiences with Air France; some of us have consistently had good experiences. Others have had horrid experiences with other airlines. I just don't think one bad airline experience merits such a dire blanket warning. It would be more useful to write a succinct letter to the president of Air France.<BR><BR>I'm glad you got your luggage back, and I think it's time to put this topic to rest.

aj

We flew Air France back to Atlanta this past may. The flight was great. We did depart the tarmac about one hour late but that was really not a big problem since we did not have a connecting flight. I enjoyed the the French movie selections and the food was great. The attendants were helpful. Perhaps we just had a bit of luck but I would be willing to give them a second try.

david

Thank you St cirq. I should have limited my criticism as you suggested. But for now this thread is over. Thanks.