Best time to fly?
Aug 2nd, 2006, 06:27 PM
#21
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The first time I went to London from Denver was on a BA flight direct -- it was heavenly by comparison to my second trip. We left at 8:45 p.m. (on time), and they served drinks, dinner, then it was lights out for several hours. They then "woke us up" with a light breakfast and coffee. By the time we got there, if you let your mind play along to the time warp they were trying to create, I had at least the illusion of having a few hours' sleep. Earplugs and the decent coach seating on BA also helped. We arrived at 1 or 2 pm which gave us less time to have to stay up before bed.
Trip #2 was less than ideal...we left Denver around 5:30 p.m., but had to stop in Newark to grab a Virgin flight across the pond. We were two hours late leaving Jersey while they did god-knows-what, and arrived very late morning in London.
We still managed to make it tolunch with a friend I'd arranged to meet, albeit a few minutes late, and then walked back to the hotel from basically Covent Garden Market all the way to Westminster for our 6:30 flight on the Eye.
We were dead tired by the time we got back to the hotel around 9, but I slept soundly and gladly woke up the next morning pretty much re-wired to London time.
We are in our late 30s/early 40s so we're still youngish, but I would hate to waste a day in the air when I could be dog tired in another country and at least looking at Big Ben instead of out the window of an airplane.
Jules
Trip #2 was less than ideal...we left Denver around 5:30 p.m., but had to stop in Newark to grab a Virgin flight across the pond. We were two hours late leaving Jersey while they did god-knows-what, and arrived very late morning in London.
We still managed to make it tolunch with a friend I'd arranged to meet, albeit a few minutes late, and then walked back to the hotel from basically Covent Garden Market all the way to Westminster for our 6:30 flight on the Eye.
We were dead tired by the time we got back to the hotel around 9, but I slept soundly and gladly woke up the next morning pretty much re-wired to London time.
We are in our late 30s/early 40s so we're still youngish, but I would hate to waste a day in the air when I could be dog tired in another country and at least looking at Big Ben instead of out the window of an airplane.
Jules
Aug 2nd, 2006, 07:04 PM
#22
Yes this is a rehash. So pass the ketchup.
I think it also very much depends on where you're flying from. The only cities with morning flights to London are Toronto, NYC, Boston, Chicago and Washington DC. If you live in any other metro area, you can't get there without a red-eye connection (or in the case of Chicago, which leaves latest, an oh-dark-thirty flight from some fairly nearby city like STL or IND.) West coasters are out of luck due to time changes.
From the west coast, most flights leave in mid-late afternoon or very early evening, so that the first "vacation" day is pretty well shot given pre-flight yoga. Then the overnight flight and grogsville for however long it takes you to de-jetlag. The 8 hr change from the west coast to GB is much harder (I think) on systems than 5 from eastern time.
So we take the last flight of the day to ORD or the east coast, grab an airport hotel on Priceline, take the morning flight, and another PL hotel at LHR. The combined transcontintal trip plus time changes inevitably leave us tired enough that we sleep like the dead and wake up at a "normal" time in London. We find, <i>but YMMV</i>, that it zaps jetlag almost entirely. The resulting energy/alertness levels make the next few days much, much more productive to us than the one-hour-a-day-per-timezone adaptation that we experience otherwise.
I would just suggest to those who don't like the idea to try it once. You might be surprised.
(And BTW sitting 5 or 6 hours in Crunch Coach, having breakfast, reading, watching a movie, etc., is way easier on the system than trying to sleep, even if drug-induced, on an overnight in the same chairs.)
I think it also very much depends on where you're flying from. The only cities with morning flights to London are Toronto, NYC, Boston, Chicago and Washington DC. If you live in any other metro area, you can't get there without a red-eye connection (or in the case of Chicago, which leaves latest, an oh-dark-thirty flight from some fairly nearby city like STL or IND.) West coasters are out of luck due to time changes.
From the west coast, most flights leave in mid-late afternoon or very early evening, so that the first "vacation" day is pretty well shot given pre-flight yoga. Then the overnight flight and grogsville for however long it takes you to de-jetlag. The 8 hr change from the west coast to GB is much harder (I think) on systems than 5 from eastern time.
So we take the last flight of the day to ORD or the east coast, grab an airport hotel on Priceline, take the morning flight, and another PL hotel at LHR. The combined transcontintal trip plus time changes inevitably leave us tired enough that we sleep like the dead and wake up at a "normal" time in London. We find, <i>but YMMV</i>, that it zaps jetlag almost entirely. The resulting energy/alertness levels make the next few days much, much more productive to us than the one-hour-a-day-per-timezone adaptation that we experience otherwise.
I would just suggest to those who don't like the idea to try it once. You might be surprised.
(And BTW sitting 5 or 6 hours in Crunch Coach, having breakfast, reading, watching a movie, etc., is way easier on the system than trying to sleep, even if drug-induced, on an overnight in the same chairs.)
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:07 PM
#24
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I'm definitely a "fly during the day" convert.
I fly from Boston to London when I go, and have done it both ways - overnight and during the day.
I know this is probably my own fault, but the early evening flights from Boston still took most of my day (so I usually needed the day off from work). You have to be checked in 2 hours prior to the flight (well, that's what it always says, and I'm definitely a "let's not take chances with this" traveler).
So, we plan to arrive at the airport three hours before our flight. Why? Boston traffic is the main culprit - you never know how long it will take to drive those last 2-3 miles in city traffic - and to make matters worse, our flights are usually on Friday evening. There is no worse time or place to be on a freeway than Boston during Friday afternoon's rush hour.
Also, Boston is continually reinventing it's airport, and we're never sure which terminal to go to, and sometimes we miss a turn and have to exit the airport, and then wind our way back in - a mess and it all takes time.
To get to Boston three hours early, we have to leave our home in NH another 1.5 hours before that.
So, if my flight is at 7:00 PM, I need to leave the house no later than 2:30. Well, if you're going at that time, you need to have lunch, so you just give up and plan to leave about 1:00 or so - allowing plenty of time to have a nice lunch along the way, or run any urgent errand (who forgot to bring toothpaste or aspirin?). (All of us hate airport food, and airline food - it's a long time until lunch the next day!)
Backing up even further, I need to meet my traveling companions at the house, do the last minute dog-petting/cat-feeding/note-writing (to the dog & cat sitter) and so forth, plus load the car and do a final check for passports, confirmations, etc.
All of that means that, at the most, I can work a half day (3-4) hours on the travel day. So, I usually just end up not working at all, and I've "used" the day anyway.
Then I arrive at 7:30 in the morning in London, go through Immigration, Baggage, etc., and head to my hotel. Never once have I been allowed to check in on arrival, so I leave my suitcases, numbly wander the streets (or stop for breakfast) and "kill time" until I can check in (usually 2:00ish). A two-hour nap, and I'm ready to spend Saturday evening in London.
By contrast, for the 9:00 AM flight out of Boston, I get up about 4:00 AM, leave the house around 5:15 AM, easily beat all the traffic into downtown Boston and arrive at the airport by 6:30 or 7:00.
The flight arrives in London at 8:30 PM, go through the normal "visiting another country" process, get my luggage and go to a hotel by 10:30 or 11:00. I'm tired (up since 4:00, remember?). I sleep. I get up the next morning and I'm completely in sync with the time zone. This is Saturday morning and I have the whole day ahead of me - and the energy to face it.
My travel companions (DH, my Mom and Dad, and, one time, 2 other friends) all agree that this works the best, for the same reasons.
I know many of you will now laugh at me for how I organize this, but what I've written is the honest truth about what works for me.
Your mileage may differ!
Gayle
I fly from Boston to London when I go, and have done it both ways - overnight and during the day.
I know this is probably my own fault, but the early evening flights from Boston still took most of my day (so I usually needed the day off from work). You have to be checked in 2 hours prior to the flight (well, that's what it always says, and I'm definitely a "let's not take chances with this" traveler).
So, we plan to arrive at the airport three hours before our flight. Why? Boston traffic is the main culprit - you never know how long it will take to drive those last 2-3 miles in city traffic - and to make matters worse, our flights are usually on Friday evening. There is no worse time or place to be on a freeway than Boston during Friday afternoon's rush hour.
Also, Boston is continually reinventing it's airport, and we're never sure which terminal to go to, and sometimes we miss a turn and have to exit the airport, and then wind our way back in - a mess and it all takes time.
To get to Boston three hours early, we have to leave our home in NH another 1.5 hours before that.
So, if my flight is at 7:00 PM, I need to leave the house no later than 2:30. Well, if you're going at that time, you need to have lunch, so you just give up and plan to leave about 1:00 or so - allowing plenty of time to have a nice lunch along the way, or run any urgent errand (who forgot to bring toothpaste or aspirin?). (All of us hate airport food, and airline food - it's a long time until lunch the next day!)
Backing up even further, I need to meet my traveling companions at the house, do the last minute dog-petting/cat-feeding/note-writing (to the dog & cat sitter) and so forth, plus load the car and do a final check for passports, confirmations, etc.
All of that means that, at the most, I can work a half day (3-4) hours on the travel day. So, I usually just end up not working at all, and I've "used" the day anyway.
Then I arrive at 7:30 in the morning in London, go through Immigration, Baggage, etc., and head to my hotel. Never once have I been allowed to check in on arrival, so I leave my suitcases, numbly wander the streets (or stop for breakfast) and "kill time" until I can check in (usually 2:00ish). A two-hour nap, and I'm ready to spend Saturday evening in London.
By contrast, for the 9:00 AM flight out of Boston, I get up about 4:00 AM, leave the house around 5:15 AM, easily beat all the traffic into downtown Boston and arrive at the airport by 6:30 or 7:00.
The flight arrives in London at 8:30 PM, go through the normal "visiting another country" process, get my luggage and go to a hotel by 10:30 or 11:00. I'm tired (up since 4:00, remember?). I sleep. I get up the next morning and I'm completely in sync with the time zone. This is Saturday morning and I have the whole day ahead of me - and the energy to face it.
My travel companions (DH, my Mom and Dad, and, one time, 2 other friends) all agree that this works the best, for the same reasons.
I know many of you will now laugh at me for how I organize this, but what I've written is the honest truth about what works for me.
Your mileage may differ!
Gayle
Aug 2nd, 2006, 08:45 PM
#25
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<< ...get my luggage and go to a hotel by 10:30 or 11:00. I'm tired (up since 4:00, remember?). >>
Jusr about 12 hours after you got up. Do you go to bed at 7 pm, when you get up at 7 am?
Jusr about 12 hours after you got up. Do you go to bed at 7 pm, when you get up at 7 am?
Aug 3rd, 2006, 05:51 AM
#26
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>go to a hotel by 10:30 or 11:00. I'm tired (up since 4:00, remember?). I sleep.<
It is only 5:30 or 6:00 PM by your body clock.
Would you go to sleep at that time if you had not left the US?
We take the evening flights. Arrive in the AM, check in at hotel. Wander the neighborhood. Go to dinner. It is now 11:00 PM local time, 6:00 PM body clock time.
We have been up about 36 hrs. Time for bed.
Wake up with our bodies adjusted to local time.
It is only 5:30 or 6:00 PM by your body clock.
Would you go to sleep at that time if you had not left the US?
We take the evening flights. Arrive in the AM, check in at hotel. Wander the neighborhood. Go to dinner. It is now 11:00 PM local time, 6:00 PM body clock time.
We have been up about 36 hrs. Time for bed.
Wake up with our bodies adjusted to local time.
Aug 3rd, 2006, 06:15 AM
#27
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Gayle summed it up perfectly "your mileage may differ".
OP sounds as if you are leaning towards the day flight anyway - so take it. You'll only know what works for you once you've tried it
OP sounds as if you are leaning towards the day flight anyway - so take it. You'll only know what works for you once you've tried it
Aug 3rd, 2006, 06:28 AM
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I find that delays build as the day goes on, so I try to fly as early as possible. If my airport or airline was not notorious for delays, I would go with whatever put me in the best shape physical shape on arrival.
Aug 3rd, 2006, 07:42 AM
#29
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<< Go to dinner. It is now 11:00 PM local time, 6:00 PM body clock time. >>
I find tht I never make it past 8 pm or so (continental Europe; haven't been to England as often as to the GMT+1 time zones) - - even with "good" sleep on my trans-atlantic flight (4-5 hours, for example), and although it's only 2-3 pm eastern time... i.e., 32 hours since getting up on departure day in the US), I am ready for bed.
And I invariably wake up about 8 hours later (i.e., about 4 am Europe time... which is only 10 pm Eastern time in the US... thus doesn't make sense that I would wake up at that hour)...
...but that first morning in Europe I love to go exploring in those pre-dawn hours when a village or city begins to wake up; it's also a good time for journaling, or send all your postcards, get them all out of the way that first morning before breakfast).
By the second day, I pretty much sleep until sunup (based on summer sunrises).
I find tht I never make it past 8 pm or so (continental Europe; haven't been to England as often as to the GMT+1 time zones) - - even with "good" sleep on my trans-atlantic flight (4-5 hours, for example), and although it's only 2-3 pm eastern time... i.e., 32 hours since getting up on departure day in the US), I am ready for bed.
And I invariably wake up about 8 hours later (i.e., about 4 am Europe time... which is only 10 pm Eastern time in the US... thus doesn't make sense that I would wake up at that hour)...
...but that first morning in Europe I love to go exploring in those pre-dawn hours when a village or city begins to wake up; it's also a good time for journaling, or send all your postcards, get them all out of the way that first morning before breakfast).
By the second day, I pretty much sleep until sunup (based on summer sunrises).
Aug 3rd, 2006, 03:17 PM
#30
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I am a regular user of the Air Canada daytimer from Toronto to London. I really dislike the sleepless night on the plane when I do overnighters and find that I adapt well to the time change this way. It's my holiday and why should I do something that really dislike if I can avoid it? If I slept well (or at all) on planes I would go ovenight like the rest of the world and "gain a day". In my experience AC neither discounts nor charges a premium for this flight compared to the overnight ones.
The market clearly disagrees with me. Every other flight from Toronto to London, indeed to Europe, is overnight.
The market clearly disagrees with me. Every other flight from Toronto to London, indeed to Europe, is overnight.
Aug 3rd, 2006, 04:22 PM
#31
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...shaking head sadly at some who seem to need to take exception to everything....
Yeah, after about 3-4 hours of sleep the night before I get up at 4:00 AM, then the trip itself, then some re-organizing, etc. at the hotel, I do go to bed fairly early for "body clock" time - and yes I'm tired.
Apparently I didn't give enough details in my first post, so I'll add a little more:
On our May/June trip this year, we also went to the hotel restaurant and ate dinner before we actually went to bed.
And I do some unpacking and re-adjusting of luggage. (Horrors, someone will probably take exception to that, too. Well, tough. It's what I do. I no longer need everything in my carry-bag that I wanted to have with me on the flight and I do have some things in my suitcase that I want transferred to my carry-bag.)
I guess by the time I got to that point in my earlier posting, I was just summarizing. But, no, I don't ride up in the lift/elevator to my room, open the door and fall onto the bed in a comatose state.
And, as wombat7 so eloquently said, I did say "your mileage may differ."
I know that some of you disagree with me. Many also disagree with me about the afternoon nap if you've taken the overnight flight. It's OK - neither of us has to be "right." But why can't you just state your own preference instead of acting so patronizing?
The OP asked for opinions. I gave him mine. Go ahead and give him yours - but you don't have to work so hard to try to prove mine "wrong" in the process.
Gayle
Yeah, after about 3-4 hours of sleep the night before I get up at 4:00 AM, then the trip itself, then some re-organizing, etc. at the hotel, I do go to bed fairly early for "body clock" time - and yes I'm tired.
Apparently I didn't give enough details in my first post, so I'll add a little more:
On our May/June trip this year, we also went to the hotel restaurant and ate dinner before we actually went to bed.
And I do some unpacking and re-adjusting of luggage. (Horrors, someone will probably take exception to that, too. Well, tough. It's what I do. I no longer need everything in my carry-bag that I wanted to have with me on the flight and I do have some things in my suitcase that I want transferred to my carry-bag.)
I guess by the time I got to that point in my earlier posting, I was just summarizing. But, no, I don't ride up in the lift/elevator to my room, open the door and fall onto the bed in a comatose state.
And, as wombat7 so eloquently said, I did say "your mileage may differ."
I know that some of you disagree with me. Many also disagree with me about the afternoon nap if you've taken the overnight flight. It's OK - neither of us has to be "right." But why can't you just state your own preference instead of acting so patronizing?
The OP asked for opinions. I gave him mine. Go ahead and give him yours - but you don't have to work so hard to try to prove mine "wrong" in the process.
Gayle
Aug 3rd, 2006, 05:08 PM
#32
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I'm sorry if it seemed that my remarks seemed "patronizing" - - but it was your remark... "up since 4:00 am, remember?" - - that prompted to point out... "yes, I remember... and I note that you haven't really been "up" all that long, despite your getting up at 4 am).
And I had no way to imagine that you would stay up until midnight, knowing tht you were getting up at 4 am.
Flying overnight, I too, would recommend up getting up at 4 am (Eastern time) - - after all, that is "sleeping in" (getting up at 10 am)... on Europe time. But I recommend going to bed at 8 pm, the night before.
And I had no way to imagine that you would stay up until midnight, knowing tht you were getting up at 4 am.
Flying overnight, I too, would recommend up getting up at 4 am (Eastern time) - - after all, that is "sleeping in" (getting up at 10 am)... on Europe time. But I recommend going to bed at 8 pm, the night before.
Aug 3rd, 2006, 05:33 PM
#33
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We are 60ish and tire very easily. What really works for us is to arrive mid afternoon, get our bearings, have dinner and go to bed at 9:00pm. That way we are fairly rested the next morning. But higher energy people might prefer landing at 8:00am.
Sebina
Sebina
Aug 3rd, 2006, 06:02 PM
#34
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Sebina,
What time would your flight from North America if it gets you to England mid-afternoon?
If you arrive at 2:00 pm GMT after a 7 hour flight, you would have to have left around 2:00 am EDT. There aren't any flights that leave that late.
What time would your flight from North America if it gets you to England mid-afternoon?
If you arrive at 2:00 pm GMT after a 7 hour flight, you would have to have left around 2:00 am EDT. There aren't any flights that leave that late.
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:11 PM
#36
Uh, David...
North America is a bit bigger than that. Quite a few flights from the west coast arrive in the UK or the continent in mid-afternoon. 10 hour flights, 8 hr time changes. Plus Sebina might be referring to arrival time at the hotel, not the airport.
North America is a bit bigger than that. Quite a few flights from the west coast arrive in the UK or the continent in mid-afternoon. 10 hour flights, 8 hr time changes. Plus Sebina might be referring to arrival time at the hotel, not the airport.
Aug 3rd, 2006, 08:42 PM
#37
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When I fly from SFO to Venice the KLM planes departs SFO around 4:00pm Pacific time. A nonstop flight to Amersterdam. Than time at the airport. Than a flight via KLM City Hopper to Venice. It arrives a bit before 3:00pm or thereabouts.so that is midafternoon. Well unless the Italian aircontrollers go on strike or whatever. But that time schedule works for me. It is the really early flight from Venice via Amsterdam to SFO that is terrible. But the flight arrives in SFO around 2:00pm, so that gets me home around 5:30pm or so. Time to unwind, see the family, shower, a snack and than CRASH, I am asleep, lol.
Aug 4th, 2006, 04:37 AM
#38
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Yes, <i>duhhh</i>... about the arrival times of many west coast-origination flights.
From LAX, even "just" going to London - - Virgin, AA and BA all have flights originating at 8:50, 8:35 and 9:20 (in the evening), respectively. They arrive, correspondingly at 3:30, 2:50 and 3:25 pm.
And the world's only true <i><u>round-the-world" airline, (Air New Zealand) flies the route nonstop as well, with an afternoon arrival (dep 6:03 pm, arr 12:15 pm)*
(*This particular flight, is in fact a code share, operated by United, but Air New Zealand does fly its own aircraft all the way around the world, with a nonstop at:4:40 pm, arriving LHR at 11:00 am. It has the interesting flight number of "2"; I think you can guess what are the routes of flights "1" and "3"!)
</u></i>
From LAX, even "just" going to London - - Virgin, AA and BA all have flights originating at 8:50, 8:35 and 9:20 (in the evening), respectively. They arrive, correspondingly at 3:30, 2:50 and 3:25 pm.
And the world's only true <i><u>round-the-world" airline, (Air New Zealand) flies the route nonstop as well, with an afternoon arrival (dep 6:03 pm, arr 12:15 pm)*
(*This particular flight, is in fact a code share, operated by United, but Air New Zealand does fly its own aircraft all the way around the world, with a nonstop at:4:40 pm, arriving LHR at 11:00 am. It has the interesting flight number of "2"; I think you can guess what are the routes of flights "1" and "3"!)
</u></i>
Aug 4th, 2006, 04:53 AM
#40
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The original poster was asking specifically about flights from Toronto.
From what I've learned on this forum, I'm going to do the morning flight after all, and just add another day to thhe trip. I have a feeling that those who fly at night are really just trying to save on hotels - money isn't that big an issue for me.
From what I've learned on this forum, I'm going to do the morning flight after all, and just add another day to thhe trip. I have a feeling that those who fly at night are really just trying to save on hotels - money isn't that big an issue for me.
