janisj

I'd bite the bullet and book a place for two nights semi-convenient to the Moors and to Castle Howard. Not only would it be much easier to find a place, it would eliminate an extra packing/unpacking, checking in/checking out. Checking out of a B&B often eats up a fair amount of morning time . . the owner is busy w/ breakfast for the other gusts so it isn't the same as checking out of a hotel. Sometimes it is hard to get away before 9:30 or 10AM.

As for Middleham Castle - I was surprised how large it is and the views from up top are wonderful

Morgana

You might be interested in the story of the Middleham Jewel - found near the castle.
You can see the jewel nicely displayed (you can see front and back of it) at the Yorkshire Museum in York.
http://www.historyofyork.org.uk/them...iddleham-jewel

janisj

>>breakfast for the other gu<B><red>e</B></red>sts <<

wrenwood

janisj, not sure how staying in one place for 2 nights would work, I think there would be a lot of back tracking.

My thought is that it would be a circular route ~ leave Watermillock in the Lake District, drive to a north or north central spot in The Moors for 1 night, the next morning see as much as we could in central Moors and also Rievaulx Abbey, and then stay that second night near Castle Howard, as I think we would be there most of the following day before leaving in the afternoon to drive to Middleham or Hackworth in the Dales.

Question ~ what could we see in the Moors if we day-tripped from Middleham? We can stay there 7 nights. In addition to Rievaulx Abbey, and Castle Howard what is in the western part of The Moors?

janisj

No -- the moors are not a day trip from Middleham. It is about a 2.5 hour drive each way and even longer if you want to include Whitby.

But for your Moors/Castle Howard bit I was thinking someplace like in/near Pickering. Its the Gateway to the Moors (about 15 miles from Goathland) and less than 10 miles from Castle Howard.

wrenwood

How about Rosedale Abbey?

Morgana

Rosedale Abbey - lovely but quite remote. We often walk the old iron railway round the valley. Getting there is likely to involve some narrow, twisty and very steep (Rosedale Chimney) roads.
Whereas Janis's idea of Pickering is good (try the White Swan in the Market Place, good food and does accommodation too). Pickering is on a main route through the area and doesn't involve a difficult drive.

janisj

For what? A place to stay? If so it is at least 90 minutes to Castle Howard. That is why I suggested staying in the middle someplace like Pickering.

One day a manageable drive north into the Moors. The next day a manageable drive south to Castle Howard.

janisj

didn't see Morgana's post (the site is a bit wonky today)

wrenwood

Google says 40 min from Rosedale Abbey to Castle Howard? (Rosedale Abbey 22 min north of Pickering)

And since Castle Howard doesn't open until 10AM (house 11AM) I would think that area might work?

janisj

>>Google says 40 min from Rosedale Abbey to Castle Howard<<

Then google is crazy. Sorry but it is NOT 40 minutes. It takes more than 40 minutes just to Pickering.

On any of the on-lne calculators you need to add 25%-50% to the drive times. But even that wouldn't account for a 40 minute calculation.

Rosedale Abbey to Castle howard is nearly 30 miles . . . partly over some VERY narrow, winding, and very steep roads.

••• Just checked the AA route planner and it says Rosedale Abbey to Castle Hoard is 26.3 miles and 1hr 12 minutes . . . which in 'real life' means more like 90 minutes. •••

janisj

It sounds a bit like you are reluctant to believe our advice about travel in the Moors and Dales.

Morgana

You wouldn't need to go to Pickering when travelling from Rosedale to Castle Howard - but it's not the easiest of journeys if you are not used to these lanes. I personally don't think Rosedale is a practical idea.
I'm with Janis in that I think you should avoid the upheaval of two different locations, and stay two nights at one place. Pickering? Helmsley?

wrenwood

janisj I am not reluctant to accept advice I use so much advice from Fodors, could not travel without you

I checked with via Michelin they say 45 min

The reason I'm looking north of Pickering etc is that the first day we will be doing a lot, Watermillock to Whitby, Robins Hood Bay and then driving around the northern part, maybe a walk or? I don't want to have a long drive south late in the afternoon, since all I have planned for the second day is Castle Howard, which doesn't open until 10AM. I thought that we could still stay north of Castle Howard and be there when they open.

Open to suggestions other than Rosedale, but I don't know if I want to stay as far south as Pickering or Helmsley?

janisj

Trust us - it isn't 45 minutes. Like we said, you need to add substantially to all the drive time calculators.

Morgana lives there, I travel there frequently. We know what the road is like. If you are planning your whole itinerary based on drive times on line you will be up a creek so to speak. Basically you need to plan on 30/35 mph most places and slower in the Dales and slower still in the Moors.

I have a photo of a road sign near Goathland that shows a 20% down grade and 25 % up grade . . . . ON THE SAME SIGN POST. In other words you are going straight down and then immediately straifpght up . . . All at about 10 mph.

janisj

I know that sounds naggy - I don't mean it to be. But I don't want you to head out on some '30 minute' drive and arrive an hour later than you figured.

It is not a fast part of the world.

Oops - just saw the typo . . . >>straight up . . . . <<

annhig

this sounds just like the advice we got when we went to NZ - and how I wished I'd listened to that!

bilboburgler

I live in the area too and trust me travel takes more time than you think, I used to travel at 6:30 in the morning and once the farmers are out and any holiday makers, plus the cows or the sheep depending on time of day it used to add 50% to my journey times. Google does not understand the Dales.

Morgana

I will reiterate that the roads around Rosedale are some of the most challenging, steep and slow ones in the whole of North Yorkshire. Rosedale Chimney in particular is not for the faint hearted. I read somewhere it was the steepest road in Britain.
In fact the Tour de France route was apparently going to include some of this area, but it was considered too dangerous. They went up Buttertubs instead!
So, even if you have found what looks like the perfect stopover in Rosedale, I'd think carefully about the practicalities. There's plenty of other places in the towns and larger villages already mentioned. And as you have a full itinerary you are surely only looking for somewhere to sleep and have breakfast.

wrenwood

"Pioneering motorists regarded this route with awe, because the descent to Rosedale Abbey was a severe test for primitive brakes. We carry straight ahead at the crossroads in the middle of this isolated village, then take the first right, a few hundred yards later, and clamber up Rosedale Chimney. It is easy to appreciate why this climb was once a clutch-slipping, radiator-boiling challenge."

From this article

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...gh-Whitby.html


Also............
"The mood changes as our route dog-legs inland on the A171 and A169, where we turn right in Sleights and follow a narrow road up the Esk valley to Grosmont, one of the North Yorkshire Moors Railway's main stations. Opened in 1836 and closed by British Rail in 1965, this line was revived by enthusiasts. *****The 18-mile journey to Pickering meanders through unspoiled scenery. In summer, wild roses and cow parsley flank the steep lanes that climb to an eternity of heather-clad moorland beyond Grosmont and Egton Bridge.***** Resist the temptation to flex your spurs, because sharp dips can flatten exhaust pipes and there is always a risk of suicidal sheep dashing across the road."

*****This is the type of scenery we want to see. Twisty turny steep roads don't bother us. And I take LOTS of sheeeeeep pictures!

So............. do you think Watermillock to Whitby to Robin Hoods Bay to Grosmont to Rosedale Abbey to either Pickering or Helmsley the first day is too much? We would be mostly driving for the scenery, picture taking etc. Stay Helmsley or Pickering for 2 nights.

Second day explore Rievaulx Abbey and "More of the Moors"

Third day, get up and visit Castle Howard and then drive to rental in Middleham for 5 nights.

Another benefit I see of staying the 2 nights in one place is the option of switching our itinerary depending upon weather. Should it be raining when we leave Watermillock, we could drive directly to Castle Howard that day, should the weather look better on the second and third day for touring the Moors.

Gosh I made you guys work hard to get me to stay 2 nights in Helmsley or Pickering area, thanks for sticking with me!