PatrickLondon

http://www.guardian.co.uk/airlines/s...675311,00.html

Tallulah

Haha!

I do hope that he had a raging hangover! However, if I'm quite honest, if he wasn't being violent and I was on the plane, I'd probably rather not have to make the detour!

monicapileggi

That's always a tough call. My husband is a pilot and I'm sure he would have diverted the plane too. One time (this was shortly after those two pilots flew the plane when they were drunk – or was it that they were caught at the bar in the airport?) while Tony was greeting passengers at the door (before 9/11) one male passenger asked Tony if he had been drinking. Tony didn't say a word, but got his "stuff" and walked off the plane. He went directly to the medical office in the airport and asked for a breathalyzer. He was afraid other passengers might have heard this guys comment and you know how quickly things spread: by the time the 100th person hears it, the story is twisted! Tony could have been fired that day. Well, about 2 hours later, he returns to his airplane, calls security and has the guy taken off the plane (that’s his right) and explains to the other passengers what happened. They basically cheered him, despite their delay in travel.

Just as in an airport where one can be fined or charged for making any kind of threats, the same goes for onboard an airplane.

Monica

Carta_Pisana

Monica -
I think your husband getting a breathalizer was a good defensive move on his behalf. I'm not sure I agree totally with having the passenger removed - especially if it occured near when those two pilots were found to be drunk. We as passengers don't have the right to question the pilot or flight attendants? Did he say it in a sarcastic manner?Maybe this person had a fear of flying and drunk pilots were just a another irrational fear that would plague him on his trip - not that a pilot who had been drinking would admitt to a passenger that he had been drinking. I just find it odd that passengers don't have the right to question the pilot while still on the ground. Maybe you can give us some more insight.

kvick

Since when is asking a question making a threat?

willit

South African Airways did something similar several years ago, just after they had banned smoking. Three men refused to stop smoking on a flight, so the pilot diverted, landed at the nearest airport, and had the men ejected from the flight.

The Airline then took legal action against the men for cost of extra fuel to do the diversion. At the time, the move was widely applauded, and SAA did not have any more problems with people smoking on board.

FainaAgain

Passengers cheered when a man was taken off a plane for what? for voicing a safety concern?

And how did the pilot know? Was he out of the cockpit - isn't it a breach of the safety rule after 9/11?

Why making sure the pilot is sober is a threat?

Maybe even tipping the pilot is not a joke any more

monicapileggi

Well, let me see if I can clarify this. “Since when is asking a question making a threat?” Tony’s livelihood was threatened. Any passenger that heard the guy’s comment could easily have filed a compliant and Tony could have lost his job. Any other pilot would have also gone to get a breathalyzer to protect themselves from stupid guys like the one Tony encountered. Stupid you ask? Yes: Why would anyone walk on board, question the pilot, and then go sit down in his seat? Stupid. If he felt that the Tony had been drinking, he was pretty stupid for staying on board. Would you stay on board wondering if the pilot had been drinking? He’s the type of person that causes problems, not just to the pilot but also to the flight attendants (as in the original posting). To clarify, no, this guy didn’t see the other drunken pilots – this was a few weeks after that incident.

“And how did the pilot know? Was he out of the cockpit - isn't it a breach of the safety rule after 9/11?” As I stated in my message, this was before 9/11 when many pilots greeted passengers at the door of the cockpit. No breach in any regulations.

I hope I’ve clarified this. If not, then there’s not much more I can add.

Monica

LoveItaly

Monica, I understand your story and your husbands situation and IMO your husband handled the situation in a very mature, dignified and proffessional manner.

I fired a painting contractor many months ago. He was not doing the job the way the contract read. At 10:00am in the morning I was reviewing the work with him and getting a real funny feeling about this fellow. He suddenly popped off with "say, tell me something, are you drunk". I looked at him and to tell you the truth got a bit scared. So did my daughter. Long story short I fired him, my daughter got a neighbor to come home (a fellow who had just returned from Iraq) and the neighbor pulled me aside and said "call the police" something is wrong with this fellow. I did,the PD came, I wrote a check for what the painter wanted for the work he had done and he left. And the PD stayed there with us until he did.

No doubt your husband listened to his sixth sense. A good thing to do. Especially when he as the pilot is in command of the plane.

beachbum

I wonder if the story would have been different if they'd served the guy the drink he'd asked for. Or do airlines have some sort of liability in serving someone too many drinks?

kvick

While your husband was smart to perform the breathalyzer, that ended any question of alcohol use. The two hour delay, the explanation of its cause and the reaction from his fellow passengers would have been both punishment and instruction for the jokester had he been allowed to remain on board.

The assertion that the jokester was the type to cause trouble for flight attendants is speculative. Your husband has the right to have a passenger removed, but in this case, doing so was an overreaction.

LoveItaly

beachbum, when I did marketing for a large US airline for a year one thing I learned is that the attendants are not suppose to serve liquor to anyone that appears that they are getting intoxicated or anyone that seems to have a "problem". No liquor is to be drank by a passenger except that liquor which has been served by the attendant. In otherwords, no liquor brought on board can be consumed. Imagine it is the same now. But no doubt someone else here has more information about airline rules and procedures than I do however.

NorthShore

Monica, what the man did was wrong, but he was not making a threat. Your husband was wrong to "get even" like he did.

Hal8999

All of you people who think Monica's husband was wrong to remove the passenger from the plane have clearly never been placed in a position where your livelihood was jeopardized by a fool.

I say 'bravo, Tony' and 'hisses and boos' to all who think he was wrong. And if it was only revenge, so what? People think they can get away with anything today with no responsibility for their actions. It's about time they start to learn.

If the passenger truly thought Tony had been drinking, he should have deplaned and filed a complaint with the airline. Since he didn't do this, he was clearly only interested in being a troublemaker.

Thanks, Monica, for your story.

bennyb

I'm just surprised the guy didn't sue, saying his bad treatment was on account of his race, gender, religion, disability, veteran status, sexual orientation, national origin, or whatever else he can think of. Even when they're at fault, people alway seem to try to "get back" with a lawsuit. Argh! But I'm done ranting.

Robespierre

I have been carrying my own booze on airplanes for 40 years. The only requirement of the FARs is that the crew <u>serve</u> it (<i>i.e.</i>, control the intake). Ninety-nine percent of the time, they don't even bother, and I mix my own G&amp;T.

I carry a card with FAR 121.575 printed on one it. It has resolved every question so far.

monicapileggi

I just read all of your comments to Tony. Here's his response as I type it:

First of all the FARs (Federal Aviation Regulation) state that no airlines can continue serving alcohol to passengers who appear to be intoxicated/or are becoming intoxicated.

I am professional pilot and I’m not a vindictive person. My evaluation of the passenger was not solely based on that one comment he, but the entirety of the situation. In my evaluation of the passenger was he was going to make more trouble. Yes, that is subjective, but that’s my job since I’m in charge of the safety and security of my passengers. I stand at the door to greet my passengers, but I am also evaluating them as they come on board.

Even though the FARs may state you can carry alcohol on board but must be served by the flight attendants, airline policy can be stricter than the regulations and may not allow passengers to carry their own on board. If you want to know your rights as a passenger, read the back of your ticket - you don’t have many rights. That’s mostly because of our concerns for your safety and security.

The 2-hour length was actually because of the testing performed by the medical staff.

As a pilot I’m concerned with my passenger’s safety, security and comfort, but I’m not a public relations person and I would rather have most of my passengers happy than one disruptive person on board. And if I have to I will remove that person. This is a very rare occurrence, but this is our job.

In today’s environment we are taught that disruptive passengers may be testing the onboard security and trying to draw the air marshal out from under cover to allow for further terrorist activity. Were not allowed to have a sense of humor when our aircraft is at stake. This is solely my decision as the captain. Since one person made reference to the FARS, they can look up who the onboard security coordinator is: The captain.

Passengers should realize that when they are on an airplane it’s not the same as being in their own car. When there is up to 250 people on the airplanes that I fly, one person can cause a problem that affects everyone. Passengers need to be more security conscious and less tolerant of disruptive passengers. You have to take part in your own security as well.

It’s healthy to have this type of discussion and I think the airlines needs to have this kind of information available to passengers so that they understand the aviation world. What people hear on the news is sometimes so inaccurate that it upsets me.

As a wise man once said, “That’s all I have to say about that.” (Forrest, Forrest Gump). (Okay, Tony can have a sense of humor when he’s not at work.)

So, there you have it – Tony’s response.

LoveItaly, I’m glad you called your neighbor and police. That could have turned in to a real nasty situation.

Monica

Robespierre

I fully endorse the crew's response to the situation. The explicitness of the threat (or lack thereof) was not material. As a pilot, I totally support Tony's position.

For airlines to force passengers to buy their hootch represents a <i>restraint of trade</i> violation (a legal term). I don't know whether this has been ever tested, but I don't think that whatever the corporate lawyers may have written into the Conditions of Carriage would hold up to legal scrutiny.

monicapileggi

PS: Tony said he will be willing answer any of your specific airline questions. As an example, no you will not get sucked out of the airplane through that tiny hole that the bullet created when shot, as in the James Bond movie. LOL!!!

Trivia: The drain in the sink in the lav is just a hole in the airplane that sucks the water out of the sink due to air pressure differential.

Trivia 2: When you flush the toilet, the “stuff” doesn’t leave the airplane.

Robespierre

I've always wondered if a smoker could light up in the lav as long as he blew the smoke into the basin and held the drain open.

And if one did, who cares? The smoke is outside.