Beating the £ in London (and the rest of England)
May 27th, 2008, 05:43 AM
#61
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For goodness sake, get real, people.
Noone gives a hoot what you order. You people who suggest otherwise must be very self-conscious or slavishly unindividual to worry about whether a barman/maid might roll their eyes at you, or - gosh - sigh lightly when you place your crisps and squash order.
I often ask for a pint of squash and water, and hold the Crispy Bacon. (But that's me - iconoclast, eh?)
Most of the bar staff in central London are from Eastern Europe and wouldn't even be able to string together a rebuke even if they did know they should be indignant at your asking for such a paltry order.
And as for taxis. Who is 'we'? I do as a I please, and am civil and polite at all times. Why the heck should I give my money away, and why should a tourist? I wouldn't give a bus driver a tip for getting me from a to b, and he has a much harder job.
It might suit Nona1 and CW to think that they are adhering to some well-known rules of the barroom, perhaps to allow themselves to feel members of a special club, but for the visitor I'd say 'ask for what you want'. They can only say no.
Noone gives a hoot what you order. You people who suggest otherwise must be very self-conscious or slavishly unindividual to worry about whether a barman/maid might roll their eyes at you, or - gosh - sigh lightly when you place your crisps and squash order.
I often ask for a pint of squash and water, and hold the Crispy Bacon. (But that's me - iconoclast, eh?)
Most of the bar staff in central London are from Eastern Europe and wouldn't even be able to string together a rebuke even if they did know they should be indignant at your asking for such a paltry order.
And as for taxis. Who is 'we'? I do as a I please, and am civil and polite at all times. Why the heck should I give my money away, and why should a tourist? I wouldn't give a bus driver a tip for getting me from a to b, and he has a much harder job.
It might suit Nona1 and CW to think that they are adhering to some well-known rules of the barroom, perhaps to allow themselves to feel members of a special club, but for the visitor I'd say 'ask for what you want'. They can only say no.
May 27th, 2008, 05:54 AM
#62
For visitors to the UK please tip the cabs. Don't tip anyone else (unless you must hairdressers) and round up meals over £10 but do tip the cabbies.
Do what you like in your own country and if you are abused that is ok but in UK tip the cabbies.
No I'm not one but I cannot stand another 100 line thread about tips in europe
Do what you like in your own country and if you are abused that is ok but in UK tip the cabbies.
No I'm not one but I cannot stand another 100 line thread about tips in europe
May 27th, 2008, 06:03 AM
#63
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Well there's at least two people on this thread that I wouldn't want in front of me in a busy pub. They'd probably pay by credit card too (which is a hanging offense IMHO). In fact the last time I said on here what I thought should happen to people who use credit cards in pubs I was banned because I was to graphic.
I don't tip cabbies - they earn plenty. I have pals who atre cabbies and they're minted.
I don't tip cabbies - they earn plenty. I have pals who atre cabbies and they're minted.
May 27th, 2008, 07:54 AM
#65
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the original sentence is a bit unclear and i'm not sure why everyone is going off on the squash thing. ordering a lime and soda (water) is not going to raise any eyebrows. ordering tap water alone might...however, most of the time in a busy pub, no one will know (or bother to care) if you have ordered something else and are just approaching the bar for a water. same goes for buying a single packet of crisps....it happens all the time.
anyway, i doubt anybody here is going to wander into a pub and order just tap water...the main point here is that the barmen do not keep mental notes on what you buy or don't buy to make sure you spend some magical amount that pays for the seat you occupy. it just doesn't happen. that's more how american bars work. british pubs are not about driving revenue from the customer. since barmen are generally not tipped, they really aren't bothered if you nurse your half pint for an hour or order a £1.50 lime and soda or a £3.00 pint.
and for squash, if they have it and it's easy, they will serve it...if they don't have it or it's too much of a bother to serve, they will just say they don't have it. most pub bartenders are very straightforward and aren't into sizing up customers to determine who gets invited into the vip suite and who gets unapproving looks and taken off the vip guest list. CW has a bizarre perspective on this....not sure what kind of freaky pubs he frequents.
anyway, i doubt anybody here is going to wander into a pub and order just tap water...the main point here is that the barmen do not keep mental notes on what you buy or don't buy to make sure you spend some magical amount that pays for the seat you occupy. it just doesn't happen. that's more how american bars work. british pubs are not about driving revenue from the customer. since barmen are generally not tipped, they really aren't bothered if you nurse your half pint for an hour or order a £1.50 lime and soda or a £3.00 pint.
and for squash, if they have it and it's easy, they will serve it...if they don't have it or it's too much of a bother to serve, they will just say they don't have it. most pub bartenders are very straightforward and aren't into sizing up customers to determine who gets invited into the vip suite and who gets unapproving looks and taken off the vip guest list. CW has a bizarre perspective on this....not sure what kind of freaky pubs he frequents.
May 27th, 2008, 08:07 AM
#66
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Top quality hooting old boy. We'll give the septics a run for their money if you can keep it up.
>>>>british pubs are not about driving revenue from the customer.>>>>
The always seem to manage to part me from a decent chunk of change. I'll tell the landlord next time that he's actually running a charity.
Of course pubs care what you spend. That's their business.
If you are seriously telling me that if you go into a busy pub at lunchtime and take up a table and only order cheapskate drinks that you will be welcome.
It's true that pubs don't have a minimum charge or cover charge. That's no excuse for taking the piss.
>>>>british pubs are not about driving revenue from the customer.>>>>
The always seem to manage to part me from a decent chunk of change. I'll tell the landlord next time that he's actually running a charity.
Of course pubs care what you spend. That's their business.
If you are seriously telling me that if you go into a busy pub at lunchtime and take up a table and only order cheapskate drinks that you will be welcome.
It's true that pubs don't have a minimum charge or cover charge. That's no excuse for taking the piss.
May 27th, 2008, 08:22 AM
#67
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i never said that revenues were not important to pubs. i said that pubs don't drive revenue from the customer. why don't they send staff around constantly asking if you want another drink...giving you dirty looks if they need to ask you twice or suggesting drinks that cost more. that's what they do in america. they just don't do business like that. they are passive. they don't care what you do.
nigello is right. the barman just does not care. they are not incentivised proportionally to the revenue of the bar as is the case in the tip for service model. most are just working to pay for tonight's toke or clubbing. the objective is to earn the £7/hr with the least amount of hassle. nobody cares what you order or don't order. nobody. cw is in fantasy land.
nigello is right. the barman just does not care. they are not incentivised proportionally to the revenue of the bar as is the case in the tip for service model. most are just working to pay for tonight's toke or clubbing. the objective is to earn the £7/hr with the least amount of hassle. nobody cares what you order or don't order. nobody. cw is in fantasy land.
May 27th, 2008, 08:46 AM
#69
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Walkinaround,
Well said! I'll buy you a virtual lime and soda, and mebbe we can share a packet of Frazzles?
And to get back to the topic - please order what you want and don't be afraid of the consequences.
And if your lime and soda is more than £2 - don't pay! Pubs make lots of dosh from their overpriced lagers and spirits, so they don't need to rip you off for not drinking alcohol.
I've done just that, and got the price down to a quid or so.
I can sense CW's heckles a-risin' at my flagrant disregard of The Drinking Man's Rules, circa 1952.
Well said! I'll buy you a virtual lime and soda, and mebbe we can share a packet of Frazzles?
And to get back to the topic - please order what you want and don't be afraid of the consequences.
And if your lime and soda is more than £2 - don't pay! Pubs make lots of dosh from their overpriced lagers and spirits, so they don't need to rip you off for not drinking alcohol.
I've done just that, and got the price down to a quid or so.
I can sense CW's heckles a-risin' at my flagrant disregard of The Drinking Man's Rules, circa 1952.
May 27th, 2008, 09:25 AM
#70
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Christ on a bike.
Can you lot let me know what funless hell-holes you drink in so I can avoid them.
I have this vision of moosey-faced ASBOnauts, coffin-dodgers and dole moles nursing halves of lime and soda while watching Sky (which costs money) sitting at a table (which has to be cleaned) on carpet (which has to be cleaned) in a room with electric light (which has to be paid for) and so on, feeling all righteous and shiny inside because in their twisted minds pubs don't have to make any money.
Look chaps. These people are tourists. They have spent thousands of dollars (about five quid) to come here. They can do better than taking the piss out of some blokes livelihood just because a bunch of loons on the interweb told them it was OK to do so.
If you want to drink orange squash - do it in the park. Don't deprive some bloke of money just because you're skinflints.
If you go in a pub buy a proper bloody drink (soft drinks are fine) - don't listen to these loons. They are the sort of people who go to all you can eat buffets and ask for a glass of tap water.
What has become of this country? I ask you. I blame Shirley Williams.
Can you lot let me know what funless hell-holes you drink in so I can avoid them.
I have this vision of moosey-faced ASBOnauts, coffin-dodgers and dole moles nursing halves of lime and soda while watching Sky (which costs money) sitting at a table (which has to be cleaned) on carpet (which has to be cleaned) in a room with electric light (which has to be paid for) and so on, feeling all righteous and shiny inside because in their twisted minds pubs don't have to make any money.
Look chaps. These people are tourists. They have spent thousands of dollars (about five quid) to come here. They can do better than taking the piss out of some blokes livelihood just because a bunch of loons on the interweb told them it was OK to do so.
If you want to drink orange squash - do it in the park. Don't deprive some bloke of money just because you're skinflints.
If you go in a pub buy a proper bloody drink (soft drinks are fine) - don't listen to these loons. They are the sort of people who go to all you can eat buffets and ask for a glass of tap water.
What has become of this country? I ask you. I blame Shirley Williams.
May 27th, 2008, 11:22 AM
#71
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we are now talking about two completely different things:
1. whether or not you will be treated poorly if you don't order beyond some amount that cw thinks will provide sufficient income for the pub owner (typically a fairly large corporation) to make a profit. the answer is that you will NOT be treated poorly.
2. if a pub customer should feel some sort of obligation to order enough product for the pub owner to pay the bills. there is no answer...everyone will have their opinion.
however, i do feel a good using the pub's facilities rather than my own. given a choice, i will 'hold it' until i get to the pub in order not to waste my own water. and if the value of my consumption of the pub's amenities (heat, tele, other people's juke box selections, toilets, aircon, water, lights, chairs, napkins, etc) exceeds my spend in the pub then i feel that i can go home a winner. unfortunately free wireless is not so popular.
i then can walk home sober, refreshed and fully hydrated (dare i say 'detoxed' from so much pure tap water with free lemon slice)...all the while laughing vulgarly at the thought of my obscene city bonus and how poor my chump of a publican is.
1. whether or not you will be treated poorly if you don't order beyond some amount that cw thinks will provide sufficient income for the pub owner (typically a fairly large corporation) to make a profit. the answer is that you will NOT be treated poorly.
2. if a pub customer should feel some sort of obligation to order enough product for the pub owner to pay the bills. there is no answer...everyone will have their opinion.
however, i do feel a good using the pub's facilities rather than my own. given a choice, i will 'hold it' until i get to the pub in order not to waste my own water. and if the value of my consumption of the pub's amenities (heat, tele, other people's juke box selections, toilets, aircon, water, lights, chairs, napkins, etc) exceeds my spend in the pub then i feel that i can go home a winner. unfortunately free wireless is not so popular.
i then can walk home sober, refreshed and fully hydrated (dare i say 'detoxed' from so much pure tap water with free lemon slice)...all the while laughing vulgarly at the thought of my obscene city bonus and how poor my chump of a publican is.
May 27th, 2008, 09:55 PM
#73
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semiramis - no one ever suggested thagt you have to order any alcohol so I'm not sure why you made your comment.
Walkinaround - you've changed your tune. First you said you could go into a pub and order ONLY tap water with lime, or ONLY a packet of crisps. We've said, well you could but it's not really reasonable. Now you are saying that if you've ordered other items you can order a lime and soda (different drink) or a bag of crisps, which is a completely different situation altogether. Of course if you are in a pub and someone fancies a packet of crisps you can go and get some. But you wouldn't walk into a pub, buy just a packet of crisps, and sit in the corner eating them, which is what you originally suggested is ok.
I still think squash (with specified tap water) an odd drink to order for an adult in a pub. OK, if it's a quiet lunchtime, true they won't really care. But if you sit there taking up a table at peak time nursing your 50p drink for 2 hours, honestly, they won't be pleased to see you come back.
Walkinaround - you've changed your tune. First you said you could go into a pub and order ONLY tap water with lime, or ONLY a packet of crisps. We've said, well you could but it's not really reasonable. Now you are saying that if you've ordered other items you can order a lime and soda (different drink) or a bag of crisps, which is a completely different situation altogether. Of course if you are in a pub and someone fancies a packet of crisps you can go and get some. But you wouldn't walk into a pub, buy just a packet of crisps, and sit in the corner eating them, which is what you originally suggested is ok.
I still think squash (with specified tap water) an odd drink to order for an adult in a pub. OK, if it's a quiet lunchtime, true they won't really care. But if you sit there taking up a table at peak time nursing your 50p drink for 2 hours, honestly, they won't be pleased to see you come back.
May 27th, 2008, 10:17 PM
#74
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nona...reread my posts...i have not changed anything.
i said LIME AND SODA.
i did not comment on whether tap water 'is OK'. i said that if someone goes up to the bar and orders only tap water in a busy pub, the barman will probably just assume you are part of a group that already ordered...in fact, he won't bother to try to work it out as 99.9% of the time he DOES NOT CARE...COULD NOT BE BOTHERED EITHER WAY. IT'S NOT HIS PUB.
i made it totally clear that i am not talking about what i feel 'is OK'. that's another issue. i'm talking about the likely reactions (or lack of them) that you will receive if you approach the barman and order a single bag of crisps, etc. people do this all the time and it does not raise eyebrows.
the main point is simple...the barman does not care what you order. i'm not going to argue if it's 'OK' if someone orders a bag of crisps, a single jaffa cake, 3 peanuts, just goes in to use the fruit machine, when it's 'OK' to use the toilets (half pint to urinate, pint and crisps to defecate, etc). this is not about what people think one SHOULD do in a pub or how much they feel they should spend to justify using the chair. there are a million opinions on that and i don't find that very interesting to debate.
my line of thinking has totally consistent on this.
i said LIME AND SODA.
i did not comment on whether tap water 'is OK'. i said that if someone goes up to the bar and orders only tap water in a busy pub, the barman will probably just assume you are part of a group that already ordered...in fact, he won't bother to try to work it out as 99.9% of the time he DOES NOT CARE...COULD NOT BE BOTHERED EITHER WAY. IT'S NOT HIS PUB.
i made it totally clear that i am not talking about what i feel 'is OK'. that's another issue. i'm talking about the likely reactions (or lack of them) that you will receive if you approach the barman and order a single bag of crisps, etc. people do this all the time and it does not raise eyebrows.
the main point is simple...the barman does not care what you order. i'm not going to argue if it's 'OK' if someone orders a bag of crisps, a single jaffa cake, 3 peanuts, just goes in to use the fruit machine, when it's 'OK' to use the toilets (half pint to urinate, pint and crisps to defecate, etc). this is not about what people think one SHOULD do in a pub or how much they feel they should spend to justify using the chair. there are a million opinions on that and i don't find that very interesting to debate.
my line of thinking has totally consistent on this.
May 27th, 2008, 10:49 PM
#75
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Apologies, Nigello originally suggested ordering the tap water squash. You just defended this as an option.
OK, of course you in theory can order anything. But is it reasonable to do so or should he have advised other travellers to do this? No, I don't think so. Sure, if you're doing a flying visit to a pub you'll never go to again, who cares, but if you are staying somewhere for a week and want to re-visit one as your temporary 'local' and be on good terms with them, no, bad advice. Especially as in smaller or country pubs the person serving you will very likely be the landlord/landlady and not just barstaff.
OK, of course you in theory can order anything. But is it reasonable to do so or should he have advised other travellers to do this? No, I don't think so. Sure, if you're doing a flying visit to a pub you'll never go to again, who cares, but if you are staying somewhere for a week and want to re-visit one as your temporary 'local' and be on good terms with them, no, bad advice. Especially as in smaller or country pubs the person serving you will very likely be the landlord/landlady and not just barstaff.
May 27th, 2008, 11:27 PM
#76
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nona...i think that i have a very different perception of pub culture. the pub culture has certainly changed greatly over the last 20 years or so. thankfully, however, one thing that is constant is the ability to go into a pub and order what you want without being made to feel like you are a flint...not being looked down upon for what you order or don't order...not being 'upsold' when you order a cheap wine, etc. it's just a place to relax and not worry about this rubbish. if you want this sort of atmosphere, go to the clubs that harry and wills go to.
we can argue the ridiculous extremes but i don't think very many foderites are going to rush into pubs and order just tap water simply because someone here says that you can likely get away with it. i think there are bigger problems in the world to worry about.
we can argue the ridiculous extremes but i don't think very many foderites are going to rush into pubs and order just tap water simply because someone here says that you can likely get away with it. i think there are bigger problems in the world to worry about.
May 28th, 2008, 03:35 AM
#78
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all the while laughing vulgarly at the thought of my obscene city bonus >>>>>
This explains a lot.
Corney and Barrow is not a pub.
And finally by the power invested in me (by myself) I declare you to be Her Majesty's Hooting Loon Persuivant to the Fodorite Community.
It's about time we brits had a hooter of our own.
This explains a lot.
Corney and Barrow is not a pub.
And finally by the power invested in me (by myself) I declare you to be Her Majesty's Hooting Loon Persuivant to the Fodorite Community.
It's about time we brits had a hooter of our own.
