crefloors

Speakng of Treasury notes. I just read in the paper this morning that 56% of our T notes are held by foreign countries, China, Japan, and Hong Kong being the largest holder.

NeoPatrick

alanRow, I hate to play spelling police, but I think you misspelled the last word of your post. Are you sure there's an "e" in there?

hopscotch

Yes crefloors, they must do something with the excess Wal-Mart cash so it comes back to help finance more deficits.

superheterodyne

>>
and on the topic of cars, alan makes a strange statement because you can't drive 10 feet in the uk without seeing a ford focus. i believe 4 out of the top 5 cars here in the UK are american brands (vauxhalls/gm and ford). <

Vauxhall is a nom-de-plume for Opel, the German GM subsidiary (and those cars are also sold under the name "Chervolet" in Latin America and "Holden" in Australia). Opel are clearly German-designed.

As for Fords sold in the UK, and in Europe for that matter (but it is also valid in Latin America), save for a few models like the Explorer which are completely off the European market, these have been locally engineered cars for years.

The Focus was, for instance, designed in Europe and sold as such in America with the necessary changes (headlights, bumpers).

Alan's statement has to be understood as: Typical American cars (rear-wheel drive sedan with big engines and automatic transmission) are not very appreciated outside North America.

luv2cthings

Hal8999, I would like to revisit your figures, if you don’t mind, from your post of December 3. I did my own calculations (well, actually, Microsoft Excel did them for me), and find that my figures match yours for 11 out 15. The exceptions:

Germany 68.39 – my calculation: 146.21
France 63.48 – my calculation: 157.53
Netherlands 30.21 – my calculation: 330.39
UK 25.58 – my calculation: 390.92

I don’t wish to make any particular economic or political statement, I am just wondering about your calculations for the four countries listed above. These calculations are the percent of GDP that each nation owes to foreign nations, using the same sources as you, I believe.

I believe I used the same source as you. Specifically, I used this site for the GDP figures: http://tinyurl.com/y7rdtj, and this site for the external debt figures: http://tinyurl.com/y22z4t.

Some other notable percentages that you did not provide:

Switzerland: 355.33%
Belgium: 304.10%
Sweden: 192.36%
Austria: 192.10%
Denmark: 186.42%
Portugal: 143.47%
Norway: 143.08%
Finland: 130.76%

Mark

Lovejoy

[A model such as the Crown Victoria is arguably an example of dinosaur technology]
If you want to see the epitome of dinosaur tech,just attend any NASCAR race.
I hear Toyota is fielding some cars in the series in the near future.I wonder what they will be like.

Sue_xx_yy

To add to Mark's figures, using the same source:

Malawi (thought we should compare a Third World country to add perspective)

External debt = $3,287,000,000
GDP = $7,364,000,000
External debt as percentage of GDP: 44.6
...which beats the US, the other G8 nations, and the rest of the EU nations.

Moving down the CIA list, I see that Palau and the Gaza Strip owe exactly $0 of external debt.

If we interpret too strictly the rule that external debt is inversely proportional to how well managed the respective economy is, looks like we're going to arrive at some interesting conclusions....

...which brings us back to one of my questions: can one evaluate a country's debt, even external debt, without knowing the quality of that debt? One hears, all the time, of Moody's or this or that agency readjusting the rating assigned to this or that bond, you know, AAA, AA, and so forth. Yet the CIA doesn't seem to be in the debt rating business. At a hunch, I'd say the UK would have a higher debt rating than Malawi, notwithstanding the UK's external rate being 390 per cent, versus Malawi's 44.6 per cent, of GDP. (??)

****

Flanneruk

Thank you for your response.

I realize that the currency fluctuation might not, from the perspective of European visitors, make that much of a difference. However, living in Canada, I see firsthand the impact, particularly on regional economies within both countries. The impact here of US currency fluctuation is significant since Canada is the largest trading partner of the US.

Not so long ago, back at the time Bush took office, $US was floating at around $CAN 1.60. This had huge implications for the softwood lumber industry, amongst others (I use that industry as it's a big one in my province) - workers in Maine, for example, and their associated congressmen were going ballistic as cheaper Canadian forestry products poured over the border. US accused Canada of subsidizing the product - you know the kind of dispute: "yes you did, No we didn't" and everyone went to the Hague or whatever to have the issue sorted out.

There were and are similar disputes over fish, potatoes, you name it, anything both countries produce, both squabble over - especially at times when the currencies differ greatly in value.

Okay, fast forward to today. Last I checked: $US is floating around $CAN1.14.

Did it have an impact? Oh, most certainly, especially on my local economy. It would have had more of an impact if oil prices hadn't simultaneously risen (Canada is a member of OPEC.) Even that has implications for my local economy - we don't produce oil, and our workers are going west (e.g., to work on Alberta tarsands projects) in droves. I think we may have lost them permanently.

But, as to WHY the currency fluctuated so much, aye, there's the rub. Did US monetary policy play a bigger role than oil prices? That's what I'd like to know.

mikemo

SO bought an ATOS when the peso was near a recent low of 11.3/1.
It's a Hyundai (S. Korea), badged as a Dodge here in Mexico and manufactured in India.
The USD still buys some vacation bargains in China and Argentina (Uruguay and Chile too).
M (SMdA, Gto.)

walkinaround

superheterodyne....

thank you but i'm well aware of the international nature of ford and gm.

honda builds its cars for the american market in america...does that make them american cars?

here in england, many are made in lovely swindon...does that make them british cars (i would be proud to call them british cars, especially considering the state of mg rover, etc). but i really can't call hondas british cars.

you seem to think that where it is designed is the measure. well that's difficult as well. these cars use designs from engineers around the world.

ford and gm have a polycentric strategy - one in which local knowledge and adaptation is key (amazing what one remembers from b-school). they do not have a one-size-fits-all approach as, for example coca-cola is basically the same (and marketed similar) around the world. many american, french and german companies employ this strategy, however, it makes them no less american, french, and german companies.

finally, i do agree that assigning labels like german, french and american to multi-national companies (regardless of the strategy they employ to local markets) is sort of missing the point of a multi-national company. what value is it to say that coca-cola or mcd's are american? but we do. especially we do on this board when we are talking about their evils.

so lets be consistent. why do we not give ford credit as an american company for selling the world's most popular car when at the same time we decry mcd's as an american company when we claim that it is ruining europe (silly assertion but that's anyother topic).

flanneruk

Sue xx:

I'm obviously not making my point clearly.

Classical economics tells us that devaluing your currency increases exports. But it doesn't work quite like that any more.

When £1 last equalled $2, my retail chain started importing American bedlinen by the containerload. The factories that made those sheets aren't there these days, and the cars Detroit makes just aren't suitable for European roads. So US manufacturing industry doesn't get a spurt from devaluation - as a glance at the last ten years of US manufacturing employment, graphed against exchange rates, will show.

Above all, exchange rates are simply irrelevant to the huge cost difference between rich countries on the one hand and China or India on the other. And the appreciation of the Yuan, in any case, has just sent Western importers off to buy from Bangladesh and Indonesia rather than China.

True there are rich-country special interest groups - especially in the primary industries you cite like fishing, agriculture and extraction - whose competitiveness is very sensitive to exchange rates. But in a modern economy these groups don't employ many people (however skilled they are at whining loudly enough to sound like a lot more). And - usually - the competitive benefit those groups reap from devaluation is outweighed by the problems the economy as a whole suffers from sucked-in inflation, as imported goods get dearer.

This phenomenon may be less true of Canada than it is of the US or UK. But the deep structural changes in many Western econnomies are having a far greater effect on employment and prosperity than short-term (and, inevitably, self-correcting) exchange fluctuations.

kerouac

There is a new revolution on European roads, as Chevrolet now appears as a brand. I have even rented one in Paris. Of course the cars are actually Daewoos.

logos999

Face it everybody, we're doomed. The USD will crash and civilization will end. . Greetings from China, gorgeous, inexpensive and sunny . Won't even start comparing this place to FL. What a difference! Let's party like the romans did on the last few days of the empire. My Euros are STRONG ;-)

walkinaround

>>>>>>
My Euros are STRONG
>>>>>

as are my £s. however, we should avoid gloating about the strength of our currency as not to look like an annoying, arrogant git.

Ann1

Yea, I don't think you should gloat too much either because the stronger your pounds and Euro gets and the weaker our dollar gets, the less American tourism your countries get. Which means that American big spenders (and we do spend a lot on souveniers, hotels, food, etc) don't add to your economy. I do remember when the Iraq war started and the French didn't go into it with the US that many Americans stopped going to France. When I was looking for hotels for a trip to Paris, many of the hotel websites had a pop-up that said, basically, they like Americans and want them to come to Paris. Obviously, American tourism is important to everyone.

kerouac

If only that were still as true as it once was. The hotels are filling with more and more Russians and Chinese, both of whom spend more per day than American tourists.

NeoPatrick

kerouuac, care to back up those comments about spending more with some facts or figures? And do you mean the "average" Chinese tourist spends more than the "average" American tourist -- or more total euros altogether? Surely you don't mean that there are more Chinese tourists in Paris than there are American tourists?

logos999

Actually, walkingaround, if you worry about 5 or 10% percent or make a fuss about it, (the end is near...) you should not leave the country in the first place. Stay home, stay safe. So much crap about a few cent or even $ or pound, just too funny reading... Stay home forget about travelling, YOU CAN NOT AFFORD IT, no matter what the exchange rate will be . And choose your investments wisely the next time.

GSteed

We travelled to England when the GBP/$ was over $2. We travelled when it was almost at par! Our experiences were always most pleasant. Travel is a luxury! During WWII the pound was a constant $5.
The US auto industry suffers from its poor/outdated business plan. In lieu of taxable wages, GM and all, paid health care and retirement costs for employees. They also succumbed to Union pressure and raised basic wages beyond world auto market levels. US autos are still great values; a 1950 car might have lasted 25,000 miles, today 250,000 miles is not unatainable. US autos are available at MPG ratings to suit anyones budget. Sadly we note, few Americans employ economic sense to many money decisions. Note credit card debt and its cost as one example.
Consider travel choices like the opera...stall seats or the balcony?

audere_est_facere

PatNeo,

There is no such thing as an "average" russian tourist - they're all minted and spend money like water. Lot's of 'em live here too. try and buy a house in chelsea for less that £5m and you'll soon see who's got the real wonga these days.

The only other russians we get are potless and work in minimum wage jobs.

NeoPatrick

Hey, the Russians have invaded us here in Naples, Florida too -- with wheelbarrows full of money. And I sat at Le Grand Cafe after the ballet one night next to a group of about 12 Russians drinking very expensive champage bottle after bottle and huge platters of shellfish and whole lobsters then ordering more. I'm guessing their bill had to be at least 3 to 4,000 euro; I was mentally adding up their bill as they went along.

I was mainly asking about the Chinese tourists, whom I thought mainly came on package tours -- perhaps I'm wrong. But I can't believe that collectively there are more Chinese tourist euros being spent in Paris than American!