Bad advice on CNN about travel prices
Jun 18th, 2006, 07:54 PM
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Bad advice on CNN about travel prices
I know you can spend this much if you want to do so, but it's quite possible in Paris to have an air-conditioned pleasant hotel room for way less than $250 USD/night. I hope this isn't typical of travel agents' advice.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TRAVEL/06/16....ap/index.html
[
Sandra Lovick, a travel agent and owner of five Carlson Wagonlit travel stores in the Twin Cities, said travelers who go to Europe without a tour group can still find ways to save this summer.
"A major city is a major city," she said. "You're going to pay $250 to $300 for a hotel in New York, and that's what you are going to pay in Paris." ]
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TRAVEL/06/16....ap/index.html
[
Sandra Lovick, a travel agent and owner of five Carlson Wagonlit travel stores in the Twin Cities, said travelers who go to Europe without a tour group can still find ways to save this summer.
"A major city is a major city," she said. "You're going to pay $250 to $300 for a hotel in New York, and that's what you are going to pay in Paris." ]
Jun 18th, 2006, 08:07 PM
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Hi WillTravel, I read that too. I agree with janisj as I am sure you do. I have family members that took a trip this week. They asked my advice and then ignored it, lol. I cringed over the decisions they made. And I have family members leaving for a three week trip to Italy..again I cringe over their travel choices. There are some very good and informed TA's..but there are a lot who are not.
Jun 19th, 2006, 12:15 AM
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10 hours is more than 1/3 of most folks' day (and I honestly suspect that more than 10 hours is spent in a hotel room, especially if you sleep 8 of them).
Everybody has the right to travel differently and spend as much as they wish and yes, for some it is worth it.
Why criticize people who spend more than you do on a hotel. Many of them already know they don't have to and some of them would probably call you a cheapskate.
Let it be.
Everybody has the right to travel differently and spend as much as they wish and yes, for some it is worth it.
Why criticize people who spend more than you do on a hotel. Many of them already know they don't have to and some of them would probably call you a cheapskate.
Let it be.
Jun 19th, 2006, 12:30 AM
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There's no problem choosing to spend $250, or $500, or $1000/night. The problem is with the travel agent saying that it's necessary for Paris, and that prices are the same as New York.
Jun 19th, 2006, 12:40 AM
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I understand that, WillTravel, and I also understand that many times travelers are mis-informed.
What I do not quite understand is the notion that spending that amount of money on a hotel room isn't "worth it" and the previous poster's implication that if you do so you are stupid.
And that seems to happen quite a bit on this board IMO.
What I do not quite understand is the notion that spending that amount of money on a hotel room isn't "worth it" and the previous poster's implication that if you do so you are stupid.
And that seems to happen quite a bit on this board IMO.
Jun 19th, 2006, 02:10 AM
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I have less and less respect for these columnists and their sources. Although we usually do pay somewhere in that range for our favorite Paris hotel, there are plenty of perfectly good and comfortable hotels with AC that charge far less.
I posted a week or two ago about IHT/NYT columnist Roger Collis who said that round trip train fare between Brussels and Bruges could be "as little" as $44 in second class when in fact I've made that trip for less many times in first class.
Fortunately, there are many people in the Twin Cities who are far too smart to fall for Ms. Lovick's absurd claim.
I posted a week or two ago about IHT/NYT columnist Roger Collis who said that round trip train fare between Brussels and Bruges could be "as little" as $44 in second class when in fact I've made that trip for less many times in first class.
Fortunately, there are many people in the Twin Cities who are far too smart to fall for Ms. Lovick's absurd claim.
Jun 19th, 2006, 03:13 AM
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In fairness to the TA, she was being asked for a generic answer to something that really needs to be qualified. I know I'm preaching to the choir here - everyone here knows that it all depends on what star rating are we talking about, what specific clientele - business, high end leisure, low end leisure, special needs (e.g. handicapped) etc. etc.
Were I a TA, I would tend to err on the side of caution - clients are likely to be very pleased to be found a hotel that cost less than they expected, as opposed to the reverse scenario. Plus, I would tend to interpret somewhat liberally any insistence from a first-time traveller that all they want is a good clean room - often by 'clean' people mean 'recently renovated' i.e. fresh carpets, etc. etc.
Don't forget, that for people suddenly deciding on a Paris getaway as of June 18th (date of the OP's post) a lot of those charming cheaper hotel finds are likely to be long booked.
By the way, a local travel agency now charges by the service, rather than via commissions. Something like $10 per hotel room booking per party (up to a maximum of two per party) and $40 to $50 for each airline booking, etc. etc. How much research are you willing to do to earn $10, gross, i.e. before deducting business expenses?
Were I a TA, I would tend to err on the side of caution - clients are likely to be very pleased to be found a hotel that cost less than they expected, as opposed to the reverse scenario. Plus, I would tend to interpret somewhat liberally any insistence from a first-time traveller that all they want is a good clean room - often by 'clean' people mean 'recently renovated' i.e. fresh carpets, etc. etc.
Don't forget, that for people suddenly deciding on a Paris getaway as of June 18th (date of the OP's post) a lot of those charming cheaper hotel finds are likely to be long booked.
By the way, a local travel agency now charges by the service, rather than via commissions. Something like $10 per hotel room booking per party (up to a maximum of two per party) and $40 to $50 for each airline booking, etc. etc. How much research are you willing to do to earn $10, gross, i.e. before deducting business expenses?
Jun 19th, 2006, 03:24 AM
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The fee for service method isn't inherently flawed, and those prices you quoted aren't too bad, either. However, when you pay those fees in order to get inflated hotel prices . . .
I guess I wouldn't mind paying $10 if I was getting a good room at a very good rate, regardless of the price level. But paying that admittedly small fee for rack rates is ridiculous. To me.
I guess I wouldn't mind paying $10 if I was getting a good room at a very good rate, regardless of the price level. But paying that admittedly small fee for rack rates is ridiculous. To me.
Jun 19th, 2006, 03:35 AM
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i agree, these types of articles are usually worthless. prices vary greatly for most things and it is easy to use examples to prove your point. it all depends on the angle as these articles are meant more to have the reader come away with a nice, tidy conclusion (eg europe is cheap or europe is expensive, europe is safe or europe is dangerous, ) than to give the reader useful information and let him make up his own mind.
as for this particular article, in talking about costs, the article compares package tours with booking everything independently. in europe, most people book a package that includes air and hotels. you are not part of a "tour group" nor do you have any guided tours of anything. these packages are offered by discount companies that negotiate lower rates for everything (the advantage that the article cites for tour groups). hotels can be big or small and the choice is usually very wide.
for many of my destinations, i would never think to book airfare then to look around for a hotel as a separate transaction. for example, if i booked train travel from london to paris and then started calling hotels for their per-night rates (muliplying by my number of nights), i would have a much higher cost than just going to a travel company like expedia, last minute, or eurostar holidays to book the whole thing as one package. how could cnn ignore the most popular way to book a holiday?
as for this particular article, in talking about costs, the article compares package tours with booking everything independently. in europe, most people book a package that includes air and hotels. you are not part of a "tour group" nor do you have any guided tours of anything. these packages are offered by discount companies that negotiate lower rates for everything (the advantage that the article cites for tour groups). hotels can be big or small and the choice is usually very wide.
for many of my destinations, i would never think to book airfare then to look around for a hotel as a separate transaction. for example, if i booked train travel from london to paris and then started calling hotels for their per-night rates (muliplying by my number of nights), i would have a much higher cost than just going to a travel company like expedia, last minute, or eurostar holidays to book the whole thing as one package. how could cnn ignore the most popular way to book a holiday?
Jun 19th, 2006, 03:49 AM
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kswl - Your post made me realize an assumption I'd made - that they would charge one $10 and then book whatever cheapest rate they could find for a given hotel, rather than charge the rack rate (which is usually designed to include lots of room for commissions, not to mention cancellations.)Whether my assumption is correct I don't know, since I didn't inquire.
What I was thinking of was how much work goes into booking 'nicer' less expensive hotels - not just reading up on them, but soliciting offers, confirming offers, keeping track of confirmations, etc. So I wouldn't be surprised if all the TA did was pick a generic out-of-the-box hotel chain - but yes, they should at least shop for the best possible rate, given that they're charging a fee.
What I was thinking of was how much work goes into booking 'nicer' less expensive hotels - not just reading up on them, but soliciting offers, confirming offers, keeping track of confirmations, etc. So I wouldn't be surprised if all the TA did was pick a generic out-of-the-box hotel chain - but yes, they should at least shop for the best possible rate, given that they're charging a fee.
Jun 19th, 2006, 04:05 AM
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Hmmn, I was thinking that.
Given the work you do on your own trips, how much would you charge someone else for the job (assuming you can't hear them laugh when you give the answer....)
The more I think of it, the more it makes sense only to do it for oneself. It's a labour of love.
Given the work you do on your own trips, how much would you charge someone else for the job (assuming you can't hear them laugh when you give the answer....)
The more I think of it, the more it makes sense only to do it for oneself. It's a labour of love.
Jun 19th, 2006, 05:14 AM
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As a travel agent that frequently books European hotel rooms, I would like to comment.
We try to identify the client's needs and suggest a property that would suit them well. I believe there are two major categories of travelers that use the services of TA's:
1. Inexperienced. These folks have usually not experienced European travel & rely on me to suggest hotels. The clients are not aware that the star-rating system is somewhat different, that European hotels are often smaller and older than US ones, and many cheaper ones don't offer standard US amenities such as A/C. Because of this, I prefer to upsell so that the client will feel comfortable & the hotels will meet their expectations.
2. Well-traveled, but prefer having someone else plan their vacation. These clients are usually well-off, and can afford the better hotels. They are used to a certain standard & it would be a disservice to them if I were to offer lower budget accommodations.
I am imagining that Fodorites do not fall into either of these categories...
Another consideration: with the Euro exchange being so awful lately, a 200E hotel room would be about $250. (!)
As for commissions, a good TA would NEVER sell a particular rate/ hotel just to up their own commission. (Our agency doesn't charge a booking fee; we get the 10% commission from the hotel).
A happy client that recommends me to others is far more valuable than an extra 10 bucks...
We try to identify the client's needs and suggest a property that would suit them well. I believe there are two major categories of travelers that use the services of TA's:
1. Inexperienced. These folks have usually not experienced European travel & rely on me to suggest hotels. The clients are not aware that the star-rating system is somewhat different, that European hotels are often smaller and older than US ones, and many cheaper ones don't offer standard US amenities such as A/C. Because of this, I prefer to upsell so that the client will feel comfortable & the hotels will meet their expectations.
2. Well-traveled, but prefer having someone else plan their vacation. These clients are usually well-off, and can afford the better hotels. They are used to a certain standard & it would be a disservice to them if I were to offer lower budget accommodations.
I am imagining that Fodorites do not fall into either of these categories...
Another consideration: with the Euro exchange being so awful lately, a 200E hotel room would be about $250. (!)
As for commissions, a good TA would NEVER sell a particular rate/ hotel just to up their own commission. (Our agency doesn't charge a booking fee; we get the 10% commission from the hotel).
A happy client that recommends me to others is far more valuable than an extra 10 bucks...
Jun 19th, 2006, 05:26 AM
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Thanks for the comment.
Actually I think a lot of Fodorites fall into BOTH categories..not necessarily in terms of experience but in terms of amenities they look for in hotels.
As i said originally, everyone travels differently and has the right to do so.
There are hotels routinely recommended on this site which I, and I suspect a lot of others, wouldn't consider staying in which many other board contributors find perfectly adequate if not more.
Then there are the folks who don;t trust travel agents no matter what they say.
Actually I think a lot of Fodorites fall into BOTH categories..not necessarily in terms of experience but in terms of amenities they look for in hotels.
As i said originally, everyone travels differently and has the right to do so.
There are hotels routinely recommended on this site which I, and I suspect a lot of others, wouldn't consider staying in which many other board contributors find perfectly adequate if not more.
Then there are the folks who don;t trust travel agents no matter what they say.
