dabsjad

We are planning a 2 week vacation in Sept 2006 to Austria-Switzerland. We have travelled all over Europe except for Austria. This time we will have our 2 boys ages 4 1/2 & 3.
We will be taking the train most of the time but would also like to rent a car for a couple of trips to see the countryside.
Are there any must see places for us..We would be flying in and out of Zurich. We plan to be in Switzerland for 4-5 days and the remaining in Austria.Any advice would be appreciated..
Thanks in advance-
Ash

Edward2005

I've never travelled with kids, but from what I have seen watching others it seems like using trains with toddlers in tow is a big hassle. Maybe you should consider an all-car itinerary. This way you won't have to worry about train timetables, you would have plenty of room to store all your kid-related stuff, and you could drive from one hotel door to the next.

If you have not purchased your plane ticket yet, consider flying into Zurich and out of Vienna (or vice versa). This would eliminate some time-consuming back-tracking.

As far as destinations, I like the Berner Oberland in Switzerland. In particular, you could drive to Lauterbrunnen right in the middle of the Alps. There is a very nice campground there with a play area for kids and would be a great chance for them and you to play with other traveler's kids. Lauterbrunnen is also central to lots of mountain-related activities. There is a theme park in nearby Interlaken the kids might like, and an great open-air museum near Ballenberg.

brookwood

I, too, think a car would be better with children than a train, particularly at such a young age.

The trip from Zürich to Salzburg is fairly lengthy. By train it is about 9 hours. The Maria Theresia leaves Zürich at 13:40 and does not arrive in Vienna until 22:35. Salzburg is about 6 hours on this same train. There is an earlier train at 9:40 but it requires the same length of time.

I have spent several weeks in Lauterbrunnen. It is centrally located and convenient to transportation.

I think you would be better off in an apartment than a hotel room, but usually apartment rentals are on a weekly basis.

I don't envy you touring with two small boys!

dabsjad

Thanks for the suggestions !! Actually this Feb we travelled in India with our 2 boys(we are from India but live in Chicago) and they cooperated really well. So we are hoping they will this time too ! Also we have some relatives in Switzerland where we can crash for the entire stay. Maybe we can do the sightseeing there by train and then rent a car in Austria !!

Ash

tcreath

I think Austria is a beautiful country, one of our favorites.

If you go to Salzburg, I highly recommend a daytrip to the Salzkammergut. Hallstatt is a lovely town, and the towns on the Wolfgangsee are great as well. From Salzburg, a daytrip to the Berchtesgaden region is Germany is also very doable. The town of Berchtesgaden is very pleasant, but the scenery surrounding it simply amazing.

If you are headed towards Vienna, I would also recommend a stop in the Wachau Valley, a beautiful section of the Danube filled with charming towns and lots of wineries. It makes for a very pleasant day. There are boats the ride up and down the Wachau Valley that your children may enjoy.

I'm sure others will chime in with recommendations as well. Good luck!

Tracy

dabsjad

I guess we have decided on Switzerland as in we will be staying with relatives. We can purchase a Swisspass for the trains which will be
economical since the boys will travel free. I was looking into guided tours(Cosmos, Globus etc) in Austria. Would that be a better idea vs renting a car. Any advice is greatly appreciated !
Ashwini

kleeblatt

Where will you be staying in Switzerland? This gives us an idea what day trips to suggest.

dabsjad

My husbands aunt lives in Effretikon near Zurich. So we are thinking of train trips to Geneva, Mt Morritz, Zermatt etc. We will also be doing the Glacier express. My 4 yr old son now is totally into Little Einsteins so Matterhorn is going to be the highlight as it is featured in their title song and he points and talks about it every single time !!
Also I was looking at airfares and everything is so expensive now..So maybe I should wait for some time I guess and watch out for deals ! Depending on the expense we may have to come back to Zurich to fly to Chicago..Ideal situation would be fly to Zurich and out of Vienna !
I have reserved the Fodors guidebooks at my local library and am waiting for them to be available..I am so excited..isnt planning 3/4th of the fun !!
Thanks for all your inputs in advance ! It helps so much to get tips from someone who has been there already in addition to chewing up the guide books !
Ash

kleeblatt

Thanks for the reply.

I've never done the Glacier Express but I have two young children and would NEVER consider taking them on an all day train ride. They would be bored to tears and wouldn't appreciate the scenery.

Day Trips that are interesting for children:

1. Rapperswil Kinderzoo
2. Goldau Tierpark
3. Titlis with an intertube ride
4. Rigi with it's brown swiss in the alps
5. Zürich Zoo
6. Basler Zoo

If you want to see Zermatt, make sure you spend the night there.

brookwood

I mis-stated the travel time to Salzburg from Zürich by train. The trip to Salzburg is almost 6 hours; Vienna is about 9 hours.

The trip through Austria is slow because the train makes frequent stops until it leaves Kufstein for Salzburg. The route actually goes through Germany to avoid the mountains, and there are no stops during that stretch which takes a little over an hour to traverse.

Staying with relatives is good if they have space for you!! Then you can take day trips as suggested. It will help some of us to advise you if we know where you are staying. Also I am sure your relative know quite a bit as well.

I think the advantage which forum contributors might have is that we gone there as tourists to see the sights.

Certainly the high mountains of the Berner Oberland are both spectacular and accessible. Zermatt has means of access also to the high alps but the facilities are not as extensive as they are around Lauterbrunnen and Grindelwald.

If you visit Grindelwald, my favorite is the gondola ride from the valley station to the end station known as First. (First = ridge in German)

Another neat ride is to take the train from Interlaken Ost to Lauterbrunnen.
Then take the mountain train to Wengen.
Walk from the train station to the first bakery on the left, and stuff yourselves.
Then walk to the cable lift that rises to crest of the steep ridge to the east.
This ridge is called the Männlichen and it provides fantastic views of the Eiger, the Jungrau, the Mönch, and other peaks. You also get a beautiful view of the whole Lauterbrunnen Valley and the Grindelwald area.

There are other places to go as well that you can reach by mountain transportation. But those two are my first choice, other than the Jungfraujoch trip, which is long time wise and expensive dollar wise.

The Museum of Swiss Farm Life near Brienz at Ballenberg is a good open area. The plus side is that there are quite a few farm animals. The downside is that it is spread out thus requiring a bit of walking. I am not sure how young boys would react. I think they would like the animals and probably the saw mill if it is active. (It makes noise and cuts wood.)

Another downside is getting there.
If you don't have a car, you must take a train to Brienz and then a bus to the museum gate.

I also suggest, recommend even, the Falls on the Rhine River near Schaffhausen, which is on the rail line north from Zürich to Stuttgart.
Some of the view points might not be 100% safe for small children, but I am sure you can make a judgment call when you get there.

I can remember when my dad used to hold me by the belt when I was a little guy so I could look.

brookwood

PS.

If you plan on going to Vienna, I think the idea of a car is less good. Vienna is crowded and parking is expensive.

I also found that I could not use a car much in Salzburg either. Most of the attractions in Salzburg are in the Old Town area, which includes the cable car up to the fortress on the hill.

The only attraction I can think of that is in Salzburg but away from the center of town and heavy traffic is Schloss Hellbrunn. The trick water fountains spray people (sometimes). I have seen kids have a ball splashing around. Not bad on a hot day!

The trick fountains are also an impressive bit of hydraulic engineering as well.

If you have a car in Austria, many of the smaller towns that are scenic can be reached more easily. Quite a few of them such as Mondsee, St. Gilgen and Heiligenblut are not on rail lines.
They can be reached by bus, but the bus makes many stops and is not my means of transportation for long trips.

Berchtesgaden is on a rail line, but the trip up there is slow because the train makes so many stops. A car is more expeditious.

WallyKringen

Effretikon, and Zürich itself, are off towards the eastern side of Switzerland. You might want to take another look at the map. If you're staying in Effretikon, Zermatt is a long trip away, more than five hours one way, with at least two transfers. Not a daytrip, and each way is a test for everybody's patience.

Geneva is three hours one way from Effretikon, at least with mostly only one transfer. Still, you have to leave really early, and make it a really long day if you want to come back the same night and make the most of it. There's not much in Geneva for a family with kids that the kids would appreciate enough to make the long trek worthwhile.

Zürich has lots to offer - the city with its amusements and sights, the lake with public steamers up and down, and in an hour you can be in Luzern and go up on either the Rigi or the Pilatus for great views and clean thinner air.

The Säntis near historic St. Gallen and the picturesque Toggenburg region is another great mountain within easy reach. The impressive Rheinfall (waterfalls of the Rhine river - not high as in the alps, but broad and powerful) near Schaffhausen to the north are a nice excursion, too. And there's much more in that eastern part of Switzerland.

Towards the center you have Luzern as mentioned, and Bern, a bit over an hour away from Effretikon, and full of fun things for the kids, too - the Zytglogge (clock tower with moving figurines, at its best at 12 noon), the Bäregrabe (real brown bears you can feed), the Dählhölzli mini-zoo down by the river, great views of the central Berner Oberland alps if the sky is clear, and of course the core of the old historic city itself.

Since your kids have proven to be good travellers, I wouldn't hesitate to take them on the trains, Swiss families do this all the time, and the big trains have a special children's play-carriage with toys etc..

Don't know about the wisdom of doing the Glacier Express, though - leave that for another time, it's an expensive marathon and the views soon become more of the same - ice, snow, rocks - as a kid I'd get bored real soon.

WK

AisleSeat

A couple of ideas come to mind that your kids should enjoy, From Lucern take the cog train up one side of Mt Pilatus and the cable-car down the other. Stop half way down the cable car side and take the summer luge ride with the kids. It will be a highlight.

If you daytrip out of Salzburg to the salt mines at Bertschesgaden they will enjoy wearing the miner clothes, riding the "straddle train" into the mountain and sliding down the wooden slides inside. The marionette theater in Salzburg could also be fun for them.

dabsjad

Thank you all so so much for the brilliant ideas..It really helps to see what works and what does not for the kids !!! I am trying to put together an iternary and will post as soon as I am done !
Ash

bob_brown

I think the Marionetten Theater in Salzburg would be good for the children. If you decide to go, I recommend sitting up close so they children can see well.

I will tell you in advance, that the music will probably be classical. We saw the marionettes perform to the Magic Flute by Mozart.

I agree that the Wasserspiel at Schloss Hellbrunn would appeal to kids. We were there on a rainy day, so getting wet was unavoidable!!

The inside of the house is not in my opinion something that would interest kids under 12.

dabsjad

I do see your point about the Glacier express. So now we have decided on the Bernina express from Zurich to Lugano(spend the day there and back). We will defly be going to Interlaken since we have not been there before and also Zermatt for Matterhorn !
So for now the plan is:
Day 1 : Arrive in Zurich
Day 2 : Around Zurich
Day 3 - Interlaken
Day 4- Zermatt
Day 5 - Rest
Day 6 - Bernina express
Day 7 - evening train to Salzburg
Day 8 - Salzburg
Day 9 - day trip from Salzburg
Day 10 - train to Vienna
Day 11,12,13 - Vienna
Day 14 - Fly back to Chicago

Is this too optimistic ?!?!
Thanks

Ash

Edward2005

I would probably head to Luzern right after landing in Zurich and spend the first 2 nights there. Luzern has lots to do and has a really neat transportation museum kids might like -- lots of old trains, a planetarium, and that sort of thing. Plus, being based in Luzern (1.5 hrs from Zurich airport) would give you a head start on travel to other areas of Switzerland.

I probably would not do both the Berner Oberland and Zermatt. You could be more thorough and less hectic by focusing on one or the other.

bob_brown

Are you spending the night anywhere in Switzerland other than Zürich? Or, are you making all of the excursions as day trips, with the children?

If so, that is my assumptions are correct based on earlier comments, it sounds like my idea of the trip from hell.

You are allowing little time to see anything at any of your distinations except Vienna.

dabsjad

Actually we will be based in Effretikon with our relatives..So it will be mostly daytrips except for Zermatt..
Ash

dabsjad

We may even extend the vacation by a day or 2 and allow some more time in Salzburg..Really all we want to do in Switzerland is Matterhorn & Interlaken !
Even the Bernina express would be a bonus.
ASh