Andrew

Portland-Munich (via Amsterdam) early September:

Fly into Munich
Sleep in Munich (1 night)
Train to Hallstatt, Austria
Sleep in Hallstatt (1 night)
Train to Graz
Sleep in Graz (1 night - may optionally skip)
Train to Maribor, Slovenia
Sleep in Maribor (2 nights - including day trip to Ptuj)
Train to Ljubljana
Sleep in Ljubljana (2 nights)
Pick up rental car
Drive to Bled
Sleep in Bled (2 nights - day trip to Lake Bohinj)
Drive to Kobarid (through Julian Alps)
Sleep in Kobarid (1 night)
Drive to Piran; stop at Lipica, caves.
Drop car in Piran
Sleep in Piran (1 night)
Early bus to Trieste; Train to Venice; few hours in Venice; Train to Pisa
Sleep in Pisa (2 nights - day trip to Lucca)
Train to Genoa (stop in Cinque Terre)
Sleep in Genoa (1 or 2 nights, TBD)
Train to Milan
Fly to Amsterdam (mid-afternoon direct flight)
Sleep in Amsterdam (1 night)
Fly back to Portland

I enjoyed Ljubljana very much in 2009 on the way to Croatia and want to see more of Slovenia, so that's the original basis for this trip. Flying into/out of Slovenia directly is more expensive than flying into/out of the neighboring countries, so I'll use the money saved on airfare toward lodging costs (somewhat). I don't need much of an excuse to go back to Italy - but I've been to Venice twice before and think a few hours stop-over will suffice this time. I've done a day trip to Pisa before too and want to return to see more of the city beyond just the Field of Miracles and the grungy area around the central station. (Plus, they just finished cleaning the Tower.) Would love to spend a few hours back in the Cinque Terre even if not doing a lot of hiking (like the last time), so I think a stop on the way to Genoa will suffice in a few of the towns.

Any thoughts or comments about things I may have missed or overlooked? Yes, there's a lot of train travel, but I enjoy traveling by train in Europe. I am probably skipping Salzburg (I have an extra day or two to play with), just because it seems way too touristy, and I'm not a huge Mozart fan (I found Vienna pleasant but not particularly exciting, to give you an idea of my travel preferences). I might also add a night later in Italy or somewhere else in Slovenia or Austria.

bobthenavigator

I would skip the entire Pisa diversion---too far.
If you do go, stay in Lucca.

zeppole

The New York Times just published on article about Slovenia today that you might enjoy reading.

If you have already seen Venice, you might consider giving that time to Trieste, which is where Solvenian culture and Italian culture have a lively exchange with each other.

Also, there is a cheap Transavia from Pisa to Amsterdam. It might be more efficient to go this way: Trieste to Milan by train, then onto Genova by train, then on to Pisa by train. Fly to Amsterdam.

What do you really want from the Riviera? To see the famous tourist sight of le Cinque Terre or do some quality hiking? If it is the latter, consider taking the train from Milan to Camogli for a couple of nights. You can hike around there plus take a day trip to Genova. But if you really are hoping to get a real feel for Genova, spending nights there is a good idea, and simply stopping off in le Cinque Terre for a look-see sounds right. (However, I don't know where you can temporarly stow your luggage. Perhaps other do.)

Lastly, since your trip is mainly about revisiting Slovenia, have you checked out flights in and out of Trieste or Venice? You could pick some time, I would think, if you landed in AMS and flew to Italy -- Milan? Pisa? Venice? Trieste? Instead of overnighing in Germany and Austria you could overnight in Italy as needed to get past your jet lag.

zeppole

Sorry, Andrew, I just realized that I overlooked that you did say what you wanted from le CInque Terre, so scratch what I said about that.

I certainly wouldn't skip Pisa. You've got great reasons for going there, and it fits in your loop. Flights in and out of there connecting to Amsterdam are worth checking out if you haven't already.

That non-stop from Portland to AMS is a great way to get to Europe from the Pacific, I think. I recommend it to West Coasters a lot.

Andrew

Thanks, zeppole. I'm actually looking at MXP-AMS/AMS-PDX as a single return leg with a long layover in AMS (arrive about 15:30 in the afternoon, leave at 10:00 the next morning) - Delta gives me the option to book that way, instead of booking a separate flight. It's about $30 USD more than booking a simple round-trip. I like the idea of overnighting in AMS before going home instead of having a connecting flight that morning and getting up super early (in order to make that AMS-PDX flight). I think it's slightly cheaper to book MXP-PDX via AMS than AMS-PDX due to the fare pricing.


Bob, it's only about a 6-7 hour bus/train trip from Piran to Pisa via Venice - yes, it's a crazy day with a bus, a train, stop in Venice, then two trains (one a fast Eurostar), but I think I can handle it. I visited Parma, Venice, Verona, and Milan in 2009; many other northern European cities are very expensive booking so late (or even early), whereas Pisa and Genoa are not as booked or expensive on my dates - and I have reasons to want to go back to them anyway. I saw Pisa and the Cinque Terre in 2007 and would like to return, plus I've always wanted to visit Genoa...

kja

Can we assume you've already seen Munich and Amsterdam?

Andrew

I've seen Amsterdam, yes.

I've not seen Munich. I'm getting in a few days before Oktoberfest (something I really hope to avoid) so decided not to spend much time in Bavaria on this trip. Instead, I'd like to come back on some future trip focused on this area and drive around. For this trip, one night seems like enough to taste Munich and move on toward Slovenia.

singfree

If you do not really want to see Munich on this trip, why not go directly to Salzburg from the airport using the Bayern Ticket? That way, you can avoid Munich altogether, and spend the day in a small, intimate city like Salzburg. The next day you could use an Austrian Railways "Einfach Raus" ticket, which would allow your family (up to 5 people) to travel to Hallstatt on regional trains for only 28 Euros total! Enjoy!!!

Andrew

Thanks, singfree. Actually, I DO want to see Munich. I like real, thriving cities. But I'm of the philosophy that I can come back in the future and see more of a place if I like it. I've never even been to Germany before (this would be my 6th trip to Europe) and I've been to Paris three of those trips - because I knew I loved Paris the first time! If I spend a night in Munich and love it, I'm more likely to plan a more comprehensive trip to Germany in the future - including a return to Munich. But on this trip, I'll focus on Slovenia.

I have thought about going directly to Salzburg. I know many people love Salzburg, but I suspect I may not. It looks pretty but extremely touristy. I don't mind tourism (I'm a tourist!), but some places seem overwhelmed by tourism, and I'm already going to Hallstatt (another tourist favorite). I think I might enjoy Munich more than Salzburg. We'll see. I can still change my mind before I go...

I'll be traveling solo, so I don't think the "Einfach Raus" ticket will help me, but thank you for the tip!

zeppole

If you can book that return ticket with Delta out of MXP, I do think that is the better option. If you tried to fly out of Pisa using Transavia, you would still be overnighting. I know it sounds lame, but I've found that sleeping right at the airport in AMS isn't such a bad option for a one-nighter like that, and you can sometimes get a bargain on the hotels right near the airport, which offer reliable shuttles.

Genoa has recently seen an increase in young B&B owners, and my experience of Italy is that the B&Bs are not only usually cheaper, but often charming, have spanking new renovation, etc., and very well located. The owners are usually eager to share with you lots of tips for seeing the complicated city. Unless you are studying oceanography or are an aquarium buff, I recommend you skip the touristy aquarium. However, to understand Genoa's importance to Italy as its most important port (and Switzerland's only port) and as a shipbuilder, you might be intrigued by a boat tour of the port, or visiting the Maritime Museum if you like such things. In addition to the fascination of the medieval alleys and the over-the-top architecture, there are some interesting views of the city to be had by either getting up into the old prison tower at the Palazzo Ducale, or the roof of the Palazzo Rossi. You can also take a public elevator ride up to the belvedere Casteletto, or for the very highest views, the funicular that clacks up the mountain to the suburb of Righi. If you prefer le Cinque Terre-like scenes, the tiny fishing corner of Bocadasse, reachable by a bus ride, might appeal to you.

Genova's medieval alleyways (carugg)i can become truly confusing at night. They are not well lit. and vice abounds. Even Genovese natives generally avoid the smallest alley warrens, sticking to more open spaces around the Palazzo Ducale or the 19th c. parts of the city.

The Caffe dell'Ussero in Pisa, which is the city's oldest coffee house, operates a tiny b&b. I've never stayed there, and I don't know what you like in accommodations, but it might enhance your desire to experience Pisa apart from its biggest tourist draw. It's on the Arno.

http://www.ussero.com/inglese/default.php

Andrew

OK, bowing to conventional wisdom, I replaced Munich and Graz with two nights in Salzburg. Salzburg looks more photogenic than either of them, plus it's just easier (one less hotel to book, etc.) Also, I might do a day trip on my one day in Salzburg to Berchtesgaden. Also hope to stop off the train for a break to check out Munich and Graz for an hour or so each - at least I'll get a sample of these places for future reference!

zeppole, you planted the idea of flying out of Pisa on Transavia in my mind so I considered it. In the meantime, my original Delta ticket (not yet booked) increased in fare, after I'd decided Milan on the same ticket is probably best after all. Luckily, the airfare decreased again and this time I booked it. My stopover in Amsterdam is long enough to enjoy a late afternoon and evening there anyway and I may find a hotel near the central station for easy return to Schiphol the next morning.

I'm also now considering replacing my four nights in Italy at the end with two closer to Milan and doing two nights down in Rovinj, Croatia instead. We'll see. Istria sounds wonderful but I'm not sure Rovinj will be my kind kind of place...

zeppole

Genova is only two hours from Milan.

I would have been more interested in going to Munich and Graz, but I don't take pictures when I travel.

zeppole

PS: Have you been to Bologna, Verona or Mantova? If you are coming from Venice, they are all interesting, photogenic places. Verona is directly on the line. Someplace else that might interest you is Bergamo.

zeppole

I forgot to mention:

There is a daily flight from Trieste to Genova. Takes a bit over an hour and costs about $100.

Andrew

Thank you for the tip about the flight from Trieste to Genova! I'll keep that in mind.

I have been to Bologna (one night) and to Verona (day trip only). I would enjoy spending an evening in Verona instead of just a day trip - that's another option I've thought about.

I've not been to Mantova - will keep it in mind!