Auschwitz Visit
Jul 16th, 2017, 11:09 AM
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Auschwitz Visit
I am traveling to Poland with my son's family (my dil is Polish) for a wedding. We have been discussing a visit to Auschwitz. I am so torn. I can only imagine how heartbreaking a visit will be. My grandkids will be 15 & almost 14 but I somehow suspect it will be harder on me than them. I think I am just in need of some encouragement.
Jul 16th, 2017, 11:33 AM
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It is a difficult trip. Almost everyone is moved more by the showcases that hold eyeglasses, suitcases, and hairbrushes as it makes it all the more human.
On the train trip from Krakow to Prague we accidentally shared a car with a Holocaust survivor named Sol, who spent three years as a pre-teen hiding from the Nazis in Poland. He told us, he started screaming at the tour guide at Auschwitz the previous day for denying Poland's complicity.
One of my teachers in graduate school was Tom Keneally who wrote Schindler's List. That came about because Keneally needed his briefcase fixed and wondered into a store owned by Poldek Pfefferberg in Beverly Hills. Pfefferberg, a Schindler survivor, asked Keneally if he was a writer because he had a story that would "Win an Oscar."
Keneally later revealed that Pfefferberg asked everyone who entered the store if they were a writer.
It would be a valuable lesson to your grandchildren in many respects. While there is the blatant horror of genocide, there are smaller truths that make it real. That one part of traveling is learning the uglier parts of the human experience which is as important as seeing an inspirational painting.
There are many cliches about genocide and history, so let the boys make their own impressions.
On the train trip from Krakow to Prague we accidentally shared a car with a Holocaust survivor named Sol, who spent three years as a pre-teen hiding from the Nazis in Poland. He told us, he started screaming at the tour guide at Auschwitz the previous day for denying Poland's complicity.
One of my teachers in graduate school was Tom Keneally who wrote Schindler's List. That came about because Keneally needed his briefcase fixed and wondered into a store owned by Poldek Pfefferberg in Beverly Hills. Pfefferberg, a Schindler survivor, asked Keneally if he was a writer because he had a story that would "Win an Oscar."
Keneally later revealed that Pfefferberg asked everyone who entered the store if they were a writer.
It would be a valuable lesson to your grandchildren in many respects. While there is the blatant horror of genocide, there are smaller truths that make it real. That one part of traveling is learning the uglier parts of the human experience which is as important as seeing an inspirational painting.
There are many cliches about genocide and history, so let the boys make their own impressions.
Jul 16th, 2017, 11:47 AM
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Well I found Auschwitz -particularly the Birkenau death camp part with original rail sidings where arriving deportees were sorted into the work camp and others immediatly sent to the nearby gas chambers, remains of which can still be seen too- as grisly as I suspected.
Not nice to look at but I am glad I went there (not a good word but) - to me the poignant thing was thinking Gee this did not happen that long ago -survivors are still living and Germany was supposed to bea civilized cultured country, etc.
Yes it has had a lasting impact on me but in a positive way - weird to say- I think it important that kids that age especially see it as they may have much less knowledge of it than you or I - who I suspect were living or born not much after the fact.
Kids that age are resilient - they may be checking their Smart Phones shortly after leaving- most I suspect would be anyway but they will have graphically learned what the Holocaust was all about -reading about it in history books is not the same.
I would not say it would be a highlight of their trip but it may be the most memorable and impactful- especially if they are Jewish and had relatives perish here or in other Nazi death camps.
So I do not think it would be harder on that age group than perhaps ours -to me it would be a valuable experience without lasting negative impact.
This is very subjective obviously.
Not nice to look at but I am glad I went there (not a good word but) - to me the poignant thing was thinking Gee this did not happen that long ago -survivors are still living and Germany was supposed to bea civilized cultured country, etc.
Yes it has had a lasting impact on me but in a positive way - weird to say- I think it important that kids that age especially see it as they may have much less knowledge of it than you or I - who I suspect were living or born not much after the fact.
Kids that age are resilient - they may be checking their Smart Phones shortly after leaving- most I suspect would be anyway but they will have graphically learned what the Holocaust was all about -reading about it in history books is not the same.
I would not say it would be a highlight of their trip but it may be the most memorable and impactful- especially if they are Jewish and had relatives perish here or in other Nazi death camps.
So I do not think it would be harder on that age group than perhaps ours -to me it would be a valuable experience without lasting negative impact.
This is very subjective obviously.
Jul 16th, 2017, 12:06 PM
#4
I can't do it but many can and have. Imdonehere, I did not know that. How interesting. I loved Women in Gold and that was mild. I feel like many countries like to ignore the facts. I think maybe you could try and see if you can do it but leave if it is overwhelming. I do hope your grandsons see it. I would give them the option. They might do better than you or I would do.
Jul 16th, 2017, 01:36 PM
#5
Years ago I visited Dachau which was not nearly as "horrific" as Auschwitz and I have never forgotten that experience. I'd like to do the Auschwitz visit before it is too late to do so.
What you may find heartbreaking is realizing, again, how barbaric people can be based upon their "beliefs." It is a cautionary tale but I think you should go. You need to see it firsthand.
What you may find heartbreaking is realizing, again, how barbaric people can be based upon their "beliefs." It is a cautionary tale but I think you should go. You need to see it firsthand.
Jul 16th, 2017, 02:23 PM
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I think whether to go to a place like Auschwitz is an extremely personal choice. I’m glad I went, and I thought that both the site (including Birkenau) and the guides were excellent. But it is, indeed, a very powerfully emotional experience – or at least it was for me. I am glad I went by tour from Krakow so that I did not need to think for some time afterwards, or more precisely, so I could let my thoughts be whatever they were without having to focus on transportation. And for similar reasons, I planned for nothing else on that particular day, except for a very quiet dinner.
I’m not sure it will help, but by the time I was 14 or 15, I had read <i>Anne Frank’s Diary</i> as part of a school assignment and, at my school, had seen clips of Allied forces liberating one of the extermination camps. Exposure to these events at that age can be very thought provoking, IMO, and could, perhaps, help inform their understanding of current events (and questions of genocide or outgrouping or torture).
That said, I trust that you know them, and their capacity to manage a visit to Auschwitz, and I’m sure that if you go, you can find a way to help them process their reactions afterwards. I wonder – have they been asked what they think of the idea? Even that discussion could be quite illuminating, in terms of both their readiness for the experience and what they might need to help ensure a way to process the experience afterwards. (And I would encourage you to give some thought to that part of the experience!) And some thought, too, to what you will do if you all agree to go, and then one balks or feels that he has to leave mid-visit.
BTW, if you have a chance, you might consider reading Terrence Des Pres’s book, <i>The Survivor</i> -- a very powerful presentation of the efforts by inmates to help each other and to ensure documentation of their experiences (among other things).
Your grandchildren are fortunate to be able to share this trip with someone who approaches this sensitive issue so thoughtfully.
Best wishes with your decision.
I’m not sure it will help, but by the time I was 14 or 15, I had read <i>Anne Frank’s Diary</i> as part of a school assignment and, at my school, had seen clips of Allied forces liberating one of the extermination camps. Exposure to these events at that age can be very thought provoking, IMO, and could, perhaps, help inform their understanding of current events (and questions of genocide or outgrouping or torture).
That said, I trust that you know them, and their capacity to manage a visit to Auschwitz, and I’m sure that if you go, you can find a way to help them process their reactions afterwards. I wonder – have they been asked what they think of the idea? Even that discussion could be quite illuminating, in terms of both their readiness for the experience and what they might need to help ensure a way to process the experience afterwards. (And I would encourage you to give some thought to that part of the experience!) And some thought, too, to what you will do if you all agree to go, and then one balks or feels that he has to leave mid-visit.
BTW, if you have a chance, you might consider reading Terrence Des Pres’s book, <i>The Survivor</i> -- a very powerful presentation of the efforts by inmates to help each other and to ensure documentation of their experiences (among other things).
Your grandchildren are fortunate to be able to share this trip with someone who approaches this sensitive issue so thoughtfully.
Best wishes with your decision.
Jul 16th, 2017, 03:10 PM
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I would not go on a tour from say Krakow that may limit your time in each camp - These places IME are best for me at least experieced without any guide - the signs in English are good enough for me and I always read up and take some copies of guides with me - but I want to ponder myself the various displays and horrific aspects like the train siding and adjacent 'showers'.
There are guides to hire on site I believe and that could be good but after the tour wander around on your own.
Tours from say Krakow often include also the Wieliczka Salt Mines I've seen - so unless the tour states that members will have a few hours at least on their own I would eschew them for lessening the poignant sobering experience of just being there with you eyes and thoughts.
There are guides to hire on site I believe and that could be good but after the tour wander around on your own.
Tours from say Krakow often include also the Wieliczka Salt Mines I've seen - so unless the tour states that members will have a few hours at least on their own I would eschew them for lessening the poignant sobering experience of just being there with you eyes and thoughts.
Jul 16th, 2017, 03:19 PM
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The tour I took from Krakaw was essentially a full day just for Auschwitz / Birkenau, included extremely informative guides on the bus and guides on site. No one was rushed -- we were given plenty of time to explore on our own after the walk-through.
Jul 16th, 2017, 03:22 PM
#9
We visited Auschwitz about 6 weeks ago on our way from Prague to Krakow (stayed in Oświęcim for two nights across from the main gate)
My husband did not want to visit - we (Canadians/not Jewish) have both read a great deal about the Second World War and were quite aware of the main elements of the museum. I wanted to visit ... simply to bear witness.
We hired a private guide (Official) - I would highly recommend him - he takes school children on tours and has children just slightly younger than your grandchildren. We talked alot about how he would explain it to his children.
Jacek Bribram
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We spent about 5 hours with Jacek - and are both so glad we did. We started at Birkenau (which I think is a good idea and evidently under visited on tours) and we finished in the main camp of Auschwitz. Then he took us into the town of Oświęcim (where he lives) which a fascinating place in history as well.
My husband did not want to visit - we (Canadians/not Jewish) have both read a great deal about the Second World War and were quite aware of the main elements of the museum. I wanted to visit ... simply to bear witness.
We hired a private guide (Official) - I would highly recommend him - he takes school children on tours and has children just slightly younger than your grandchildren. We talked alot about how he would explain it to his children.
Jacek Bribram
[email protected]
We spent about 5 hours with Jacek - and are both so glad we did. We started at Birkenau (which I think is a good idea and evidently under visited on tours) and we finished in the main camp of Auschwitz. Then he took us into the town of Oświęcim (where he lives) which a fascinating place in history as well.
Jul 16th, 2017, 03:26 PM
#10
Just to offer current information based on our recent experience - you must visit Auschwitz with a group or private guide. (we did the latter - for the former there are many tours in many languages leaving from the main gate). Your ticket includes shuttle bus to Birkenau (5-7 minutes away) --- there you do not have to have a guide. Although frankly I thought the value of the guide was higher there..........we saw the entire site.
Jul 16th, 2017, 04:08 PM
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I visited Auschwitz/Birkenau two months ago.
In my opinion, everyone needs to go given an opportunity. It can easily be set aside as an anomaly in history. Once you understand the environment and the evolving roles of these concentration camps, you would realize this did not just happen at this point in time but something that can happen over and over. The Zeitgeist that allowed Auschwitz never seems to go away.
I have been to three concentration camps. Ones in Germany were too sanitized and looked more like museums. Auschwitz is left mostly as an evidence. Unless you have been reading between the lines in what you have seen and read, you would probably discover things for the first time. Some of them can be inconvenient truth.
In my opinion, everyone needs to go given an opportunity. It can easily be set aside as an anomaly in history. Once you understand the environment and the evolving roles of these concentration camps, you would realize this did not just happen at this point in time but something that can happen over and over. The Zeitgeist that allowed Auschwitz never seems to go away.
I have been to three concentration camps. Ones in Germany were too sanitized and looked more like museums. Auschwitz is left mostly as an evidence. Unless you have been reading between the lines in what you have seen and read, you would probably discover things for the first time. Some of them can be inconvenient truth.
Jul 16th, 2017, 11:59 PM
#12
To answer the OP's question directly, yes you should go. My only concern with those concentration camps that you can visit, is that the older visitors understand what they are and were, but most of the younger people see it more as a film set. I'm not sure how you get across the enormity of what happened there to today's generation. Perhaps you can't.
I did find the personal effects exhibit moving, but I certainly got the shivers when we walked under the "Arbeit Macht Frei" sign.
I did find the personal effects exhibit moving, but I certainly got the shivers when we walked under the "Arbeit Macht Frei" sign.
Jul 17th, 2017, 01:43 AM
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Having visited the Sydney Jewish Museum and read widely about the camps, I thought I knew a reasonable amount about them.
It wasn't until I walked under the 'Arbeit Macht Frei' sign that I realised how much more there was to learn.
I wouldn't have missed that experience for anything. With knowledge comes understanding - it's a pity that this isn't available to many more of us.
Di
It wasn't until I walked under the 'Arbeit Macht Frei' sign that I realised how much more there was to learn.
I wouldn't have missed that experience for anything. With knowledge comes understanding - it's a pity that this isn't available to many more of us.
Di
Jul 17th, 2017, 03:56 AM
#14
The Auschwitz guide presented our experience as a visit to a cemetery where we were paying our respects. We could not be in Kraków without visiting Auschwitz and paying our respects. We felt the Auschwitz guide added so much and would not have learned nor understood so much of these sites without her guidance.
Jul 17th, 2017, 09:59 AM
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Thank you so much for your thoughtful and insightful responses. One of the reasons I asked the question is because my 14yo granddaughter and I had an opportunity to drive together last week so our conversation touched on our Poland trip. She was (to my surprise) quite knowledgeable about the Holocaust. We are all Canadian (non-Jewish) but they have been living in Florida for 7 years. I'm not sure if it is part of the curriculum in all US schools but my Florida family lives in a school district that has a fairly substantial Jewish population and they have learned about the Holocaust. They also visited the Holocaust museum on a school trip to DC. My granddaughter has also read some books about the Holocaust. I think this is incredibly important. I have always believed in the importance of always teaching the new generation about the horrors of the past.
Thank you for the recommendation of a private guide. This may be a good idea. I think my dil's hometown is reasonably close to Auschwitz so hopefully we will be able to visit for the day and return 'home' in the evening.
I am really excited about this trip. It is always fun to tour with a local.
Thank you for the recommendation of a private guide. This may be a good idea. I think my dil's hometown is reasonably close to Auschwitz so hopefully we will be able to visit for the day and return 'home' in the evening.
I am really excited about this trip. It is always fun to tour with a local.
Jul 17th, 2017, 10:56 AM
#18
travellin - since you're Canadian there is a heart breaking Canadian connection at the Birkenau camp - (everything is heart breaking of course but in this case our country's name was corrupted) Jacek took us there.
"A few hundred yards from Birkenau’s gas chambers and crematoria was an area of the camp the inmates called "Canada." It was so named because Canada was thought to be a country of great riches. Inmates’ possessions were taken from them upon arrival and brought there. The items were sorted and sent back to Germany, although some were stolen by SS guards. "
But arrivals would here they were going to "Canada"...........that broke my heart - the first of many times.
"A few hundred yards from Birkenau’s gas chambers and crematoria was an area of the camp the inmates called "Canada." It was so named because Canada was thought to be a country of great riches. Inmates’ possessions were taken from them upon arrival and brought there. The items were sorted and sent back to Germany, although some were stolen by SS guards. "
But arrivals would here they were going to "Canada"...........that broke my heart - the first of many times.
