I am reluctant to use an ATM card with th VISA logo because of the higher liability exposure. I am considering changing to a "straight" ATM card which cannot be used as a credit card not requiring a PIN. My bank tells me they will do that but only ATM's that accept Cirrus will be possible for me to use. Are Cirrus machines in widespread use? <BR>Thank you, <BR>Richard

I had no trouble finding Cirrus machines in Italy and UK

We've used our Cirrus bank ATM card in France and Germany, no trouble finding machines.

Cirrus is the mastercard system. You can do a search for any ATM at www.mastercard.com in the world

I believe you still need a four-digit pin number, even with a "straight" ATM card.

Howard, I believe Richard is referring to the ATM cards that can also be used as a credit card--they have mastercard or visa logos right on the card--only they're not credit cards. You can use them at a store or restaurant that accepts the credit card, but the money comes out of your checking account, instead of you getting a bill. They can be convenient to use, because you only spend money you already have, you don't get stuck with big bills later. However... <BR> <BR>They can be dangerous because these 'debit cards' don't come with the same safeguards against fraud that credit cards do. With a credit card, your liability is a maximum of $50 in any fraud case, and there are specific statutory laws that protect credit card holders. These laws don't apply to debit cards.

Raphie, thanks for the explanation. However, note that your most informative posting makes it even clearer than Richard would be safer traveling with the type of ATM card I was talking about. Yes? <BR>Richard, as others have said, don't take that much cash, but instead, rely on the "straight" ATM card as I described.

Question for Raphie: <BR> <BR>If these cards require a PIN number for use in an ATM machine, don't they also require a PIN number when used as a charge card?

To howard: Yes, thanks, I agree. <BR> <BR>To Rudy: No, when using that type of ATM card as a charge card, a PIN is NOT required. The card has a Mastercard or Visa logo on the face (Mastercard is more common), so to the cashier it looks like a credit card. You present it to the cashier just as if it were a credit card--then you sign the receipt. Then the amount comes out of your checking account in a day or two.

The biggest advantage of using a straight ATM card for cash in Europe, is that it's much cheaper, and you get a good conversion rate. <BR>With your Visa or MC card you pay a fee (every bank has its own), which can be expensive if you need $100-200 at a time. As much as I remember from my trips to Europe 2 and 4 years ago, I did not pay a dime when using my regular ATM card there. <BR> <BR>However, if you do plan to use your regular ATM card, it would be prudent to check with your bank, let them know that you are traveling abroad, sometimes they add a code to your account, so that their computer does not regard it as a suspecious activity. <BR> <BR>And yes, Cirrus is very popular in Europe, My ATM card belongs to the PLUS system, and I found the Cirrus logo on more machines than the PLUS sign. Still had no problem getting local currency from the "machine in the wall". <BR> <BR>Have a good trip! <BR>Amik

Just want to thank everyone for their help. <BR>Richard