ATM card withdrawal in France
Apr 11th, 2006, 05:22 PM
#21
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Yes it is amazing. Most bank employees arent even aware of it. I had to do my own reseach on the internet to find this 'Alliance". I live in Canada and Scotia BAnk is not my regular bank. BUt I now have a Soctia bank checquing account there and put my vacation money in there when I travel. IT seems to be the same alliance as the Bank of America. I can go to Bank of Maerica , Barcley Bank in Britian. WestPac in Australia and New Zealand and banks in other countries WITHOUT paying ANy charges to use the atm's.
So Even if it isn't your own bnk, it's worth it to open an account with your vacation money.... and use the foreign ATM's for free.
So Even if it isn't your own bnk, it's worth it to open an account with your vacation money.... and use the foreign ATM's for free.
Apr 11th, 2006, 05:33 PM
#22
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Sorry, you didn't read my post, or else I didn't make it clear. Last year I talked with the bank manager at a large branch of Deutschbank in Rome. He told me that very recently Deutschebank had given the job of transferring funds from foreign ATM withdrawals to VISA services. Previously the bank had done those transfers themselves, but had found it easier to let Visa Services handle it. This has nothing to do with using a credit card. Visa Services is also in the business of general money transfers or currency exchanges -- call them what you will.
As a result of that, he informed me, US customers were now finding that their currency rates were 1% higher than the current XE rates. I was unable to confirm this personally, as my BofA ATM only card without a debit function and without a VISA, or Cirrus symbol (which is just a Visa connection) on it would not work there -- as it had at all other Italian banks I had used it. This was the reason for my conversation with the bank manager, and he apologized for this additional new inconvenience caused in the new way the transfers were being done. He mentioned they had many US regular customers including a lot of university students, and he assured me that since the bank had given their transfer services over to VISA services, those customers were now being charged an extra 1% on their withdrawal. Unlike on a credit card, at that time it was not being shown as a separate line item, but suddenly the customers had discovered their exchange rates were 1% higher than the normal daily rate. This was a charge made by Visa Services to the US bank and then passed on to the customers of that bank. It had nothing to do with a charge from a European bank.
So as VISA services takes over more and more European bank/US bank transfers, you can look to this extra 1% being added in to ATM withdrawals just like credit card charges.
What I was saying before will only apply from some banks. But if you use that Commerce Bank ATM at a Deutschebank ATM, I'm pretty sure that what this guy said is true, VISA services will be charging Commerce Bank 1% in addition to the daily exhange rate. If Commerce Bank does not choose to pass that along to its customers, it is indeed a very charitable institution to absorb it!
As a result of that, he informed me, US customers were now finding that their currency rates were 1% higher than the current XE rates. I was unable to confirm this personally, as my BofA ATM only card without a debit function and without a VISA, or Cirrus symbol (which is just a Visa connection) on it would not work there -- as it had at all other Italian banks I had used it. This was the reason for my conversation with the bank manager, and he apologized for this additional new inconvenience caused in the new way the transfers were being done. He mentioned they had many US regular customers including a lot of university students, and he assured me that since the bank had given their transfer services over to VISA services, those customers were now being charged an extra 1% on their withdrawal. Unlike on a credit card, at that time it was not being shown as a separate line item, but suddenly the customers had discovered their exchange rates were 1% higher than the normal daily rate. This was a charge made by Visa Services to the US bank and then passed on to the customers of that bank. It had nothing to do with a charge from a European bank.
So as VISA services takes over more and more European bank/US bank transfers, you can look to this extra 1% being added in to ATM withdrawals just like credit card charges.
What I was saying before will only apply from some banks. But if you use that Commerce Bank ATM at a Deutschebank ATM, I'm pretty sure that what this guy said is true, VISA services will be charging Commerce Bank 1% in addition to the daily exhange rate. If Commerce Bank does not choose to pass that along to its customers, it is indeed a very charitable institution to absorb it!
Apr 11th, 2006, 05:33 PM
#23
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I don't know if I'm allowed to quote from a bank site..but...this is what my bank shows on their site...
Global ATM Alliance
People are travelling more than ever before. That's why Scotiabank is proud to be a founding member of the new Global ATM Alliance, along with Bank of America, BNP Paribas, Barclays, Deutsche Bank 24 and Westpac.
Now, it's even easier - and more important, FREE - for you to access your cash through Global Alliance ATMs when you travel to the United States or overseas.
Scotiabank customers can now withdraw cash from participating member ATMs without paying any access fees! That means free access** to your account from over 27,000 cash machines in Australia, France, Germany, The United Kingdom and The United States I'm sure a US bank of AMerica , who is part of this, would also be partnered with the smae other countries.
Global ATM Alliance
People are travelling more than ever before. That's why Scotiabank is proud to be a founding member of the new Global ATM Alliance, along with Bank of America, BNP Paribas, Barclays, Deutsche Bank 24 and Westpac.
Now, it's even easier - and more important, FREE - for you to access your cash through Global Alliance ATMs when you travel to the United States or overseas.
Scotiabank customers can now withdraw cash from participating member ATMs without paying any access fees! That means free access** to your account from over 27,000 cash machines in Australia, France, Germany, The United Kingdom and The United States I'm sure a US bank of AMerica , who is part of this, would also be partnered with the smae other countries.
Apr 11th, 2006, 05:45 PM
#25
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Kodi, that is so true, but please keep in mind that the word "free" is used to mean no fee. What rate a bank uses to exchange your currency with is quite a different matter. AAA will proudly exclaim that they sell you foreign travlers cheques "FREE" or without fee. That is true, but don't mention the 5 or 6% higher exhange rate than the interbank rate!
Budman, I don't mean to be argumentative, and to be honest I've written posts almost identical to yours, but that was before things changed last summer. I strongly suspect more and more banks will change as time goes on. At least on my most recent trip to the UK, it appeared that such a charge was not yet being levied on my BofA/Barclay's ATM withdrawals. They seemed to be at exactly the posted XE rates I found on the internet.
I do know as a fact that with that change, my BofA ATM only card without a Visa debit connection that had always worked at Italian banks, suddenly would no longer work at Italian branches of Deutschebank. And I believe it was just as that manager said, because of the new powers of Visa services handling the transfers. I came home and turned in my ATM only card for an ATM/DEBIT card to avoid this problem in the future.
Budman, I don't mean to be argumentative, and to be honest I've written posts almost identical to yours, but that was before things changed last summer. I strongly suspect more and more banks will change as time goes on. At least on my most recent trip to the UK, it appeared that such a charge was not yet being levied on my BofA/Barclay's ATM withdrawals. They seemed to be at exactly the posted XE rates I found on the internet.
I do know as a fact that with that change, my BofA ATM only card without a Visa debit connection that had always worked at Italian banks, suddenly would no longer work at Italian branches of Deutschebank. And I believe it was just as that manager said, because of the new powers of Visa services handling the transfers. I came home and turned in my ATM only card for an ATM/DEBIT card to avoid this problem in the future.
Apr 11th, 2006, 05:47 PM
#26
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Maybe something has changed since, but last year my M/C transactions included the 1% conversion fee, and my Commerce Bank ATM withdrawals gave me the interbank conversion rate. I don't know what Deutschebank does. I was not aware what bank I was using when I withdrew from an ATM, but I paid no fees, transaction fees, ATM fees, or conversion fees.
kodi, you are talking about fees YOUR bank will or will not charge. If I use my ATM card from the States in a European Bank ATM machine, the European Bank will not charge me or my bank a fee. My bank may or may not charge me a fee to withdraw from an ATM if this is an "out of network" bank. My bank does not. Your bank may.
The bottom line is my bank will not charge me any fees or conversion fees when I use a European ATM, nor will the European ATM bank charge me a fee, no matter what alliance bank I use.
kodi, you are talking about fees YOUR bank will or will not charge. If I use my ATM card from the States in a European Bank ATM machine, the European Bank will not charge me or my bank a fee. My bank may or may not charge me a fee to withdraw from an ATM if this is an "out of network" bank. My bank does not. Your bank may.
The bottom line is my bank will not charge me any fees or conversion fees when I use a European ATM, nor will the European ATM bank charge me a fee, no matter what alliance bank I use.
Apr 11th, 2006, 05:58 PM
#27
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Do you have a car loan? A mortgage? A student loan? Credit card through a local bank? Typically, if you have a checking or savings account at a bank where you have a "relationship", fees are waived for "foreign" ATM withdrawals...
Apr 11th, 2006, 06:02 PM
#28
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Neopolitan, maybe you should switch from BofA to another bank. 
I'm going to Switzerland next month, and I'll give a full report on bank charges, fees, etc. using my M/C and ATM card.
I know this whole matter is complex, considering all the credit cards out there, charges, fee, and coupled with the DCC, I think an informed traveler can decide for himself/herself based upon all the facts what tolerance levels they are willing to expend.
I'm going to Switzerland next month, and I'll give a full report on bank charges, fees, etc. using my M/C and ATM card.
I know this whole matter is complex, considering all the credit cards out there, charges, fee, and coupled with the DCC, I think an informed traveler can decide for himself/herself based upon all the facts what tolerance levels they are willing to expend.
Apr 11th, 2006, 06:09 PM
#29
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HUH, Budman? You mean you still missed my point after all that explanation. The point is that if any US bank is being charged 1% for one of its customers using a foreign ATM it is unlikely they will "eat" that charge. You may thing other banks will just absorb that cost, but I sincerely doubt it. Now read carefully -- I didn't say the European bank was charging them, but VISA services hired by the European bank is doing so. BankofAmerica has no control over that, even though Deutschebank is a partner bank!
Meanwhile, I'm very happy with BofA since I haven't paid a single ATM fee in the past couple of trips -- able to find partner banks. That Deutschebank thing is a new "fluke", but in any case I could still do two free ATM withdrawals a month (and my partner could do two more) at non affiliated banks. So again -- we pay no fees. And Barclays and BNP banks were plentiful in Spain, France, and the UK -- my only destinations for the next trip.
Meanwhile, I'm very happy with BofA since I haven't paid a single ATM fee in the past couple of trips -- able to find partner banks. That Deutschebank thing is a new "fluke", but in any case I could still do two free ATM withdrawals a month (and my partner could do two more) at non affiliated banks. So again -- we pay no fees. And Barclays and BNP banks were plentiful in Spain, France, and the UK -- my only destinations for the next trip.
Apr 11th, 2006, 07:37 PM
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Bank of America is definitely a winner. I bank with them and used my card to make one 500 euro withdrawal at a BNP in Paris. All my account info indicated was a $600.51 withdrawal. That's 1.17 exchange rate. No fees.
Apr 11th, 2006, 08:08 PM
#33
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Reversing the number? What does that mean?
Divide 600.51 by 500 and you get 1.201
That means you paid $1.201 for each euro.
I just looked up December 16th rates on XE and found that the rate was .8325 which is the same as 1.201, so yes you got the current rate.
I'm not sure what that reverse step is you did, but you're right, it did humor me.
Here's a site where you can look up any currency rates for any date and it will show you how many units to the other unit going either way.
http://www.xe.net/ict/
Divide 600.51 by 500 and you get 1.201
That means you paid $1.201 for each euro.
I just looked up December 16th rates on XE and found that the rate was .8325 which is the same as 1.201, so yes you got the current rate.
I'm not sure what that reverse step is you did, but you're right, it did humor me.
Here's a site where you can look up any currency rates for any date and it will show you how many units to the other unit going either way.
http://www.xe.net/ict/
Apr 12th, 2006, 04:30 AM
#36
I may be dense, but I do not understand why someone would want to open an account at Bank of America for the purpose of overseas ATM withdrawals when it means that in order to avoid a large per transaction fee you have to find a partner bank for each withdrawal.
My local bank in Massachusetts does not charge any transaction fee and I can use the card anywhere that has PLUS or Cirrus. The rate from my recent trip to Paris appears to be identical to the rate I got on my credit card, which is the 1% tacked on by VISA.
I understand why, if you are banking with B of A anyway, you would keep the account and follow their procedures, but if you don't have other reasons for using that bank, there are lots of other banks that have much less restrictive options for overseas ATM use.
My local bank in Massachusetts does not charge any transaction fee and I can use the card anywhere that has PLUS or Cirrus. The rate from my recent trip to Paris appears to be identical to the rate I got on my credit card, which is the 1% tacked on by VISA.
I understand why, if you are banking with B of A anyway, you would keep the account and follow their procedures, but if you don't have other reasons for using that bank, there are lots of other banks that have much less restrictive options for overseas ATM use.
Apr 12th, 2006, 04:50 AM
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Budman, please listen carefully now. What are you wondering about the bank passing along to you? As I've said about five times now, that Deutschebank in Italy thing was new -- and as far as I know may still be the only major bank hiring Visa services to do their transactions rather than doing them themselves. So unless you have done an ATM withdrawal at a Deutschebank in Italy there's no specific reason to think that you have yet run into such a charge that your bank would have passed on to you. If you HAVE done an ATM withdrawal at a Deutschebank in Italy in the past year, then I'd suspect they have. Meanwhile I don't even know if that was only by the Italian branches of Deutschebank or by all Deutschebanks even in Germany.
So next month if you are in Italy, it would be very interesting if you did an ATM withdrawal at a Deutschebank and one at another bank to see if there is a difference in rates. Or simply compare the final rate with the XE rate for that day.
So next month if you are in Italy, it would be very interesting if you did an ATM withdrawal at a Deutschebank and one at another bank to see if there is a difference in rates. Or simply compare the final rate with the XE rate for that day.
Apr 12th, 2006, 04:58 AM
#39
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I will be in Germany & Switzerland, and will avoid Deutschebank like the plague.
I'm only going on what my bank has told me. Maybe the 1% is wrapped into the rate prior to it getting to the Stateside bank, but the bank doesn't add anything when it gets there, but we shall see.
I'm only going on what my bank has told me. Maybe the 1% is wrapped into the rate prior to it getting to the Stateside bank, but the bank doesn't add anything when it gets there, but we shall see.
Apr 12th, 2006, 05:10 AM
#40
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"Maybe the 1% is wrapped into the rate prior to it getting to the Stateside bank"
Yes, that is my impression.
Let's say the current rate is 1.20 and you withdraw 300 euro. My guess of how it works (and this is just a guess now), is that Visa services immediately hands over 300 euro to the European bank you took the money from. They then "bill" your home bank for $363.60. That's 300 euro at 1.20 each plus 1%. Your statement would then show you took out 300 euro for a cost of $363.60. If you divided that out, you'd find you actually paid a rate of 1.212. And sometimes it's hard to tell exactly what the rate should have been at the exact time you did your withdrawal, so it's not easy to know if you got the right rate or a 1% higher rate.
Now let's be technical here. I personally don't think it's all that horrible for a company (in this case a bank) which is in the business of making money to have charged me $3.60 for somehow making the connections and getting me $360 of my own money from several thousand miles away in a split second. Frankly, I think they've earned it. Don't misunderstand me. If there is no charge, that's even better, and we've gotten spoiled in the past by there not being any charge. I'm just saying I don't see anything wrong if the banks or the transfer services do start charging that. I'd like to see how I could make a phone call home and have someone send me $360 of my own money for less than $3.60 total! And to me it's worth that measly amount not to have to be carrying around huge sums for weeks at a time, but to be able to go get whatever I want at the drop of a hat from a machine on the corner anywhere in Europe.
Yes, that is my impression.
Let's say the current rate is 1.20 and you withdraw 300 euro. My guess of how it works (and this is just a guess now), is that Visa services immediately hands over 300 euro to the European bank you took the money from. They then "bill" your home bank for $363.60. That's 300 euro at 1.20 each plus 1%. Your statement would then show you took out 300 euro for a cost of $363.60. If you divided that out, you'd find you actually paid a rate of 1.212. And sometimes it's hard to tell exactly what the rate should have been at the exact time you did your withdrawal, so it's not easy to know if you got the right rate or a 1% higher rate.
Now let's be technical here. I personally don't think it's all that horrible for a company (in this case a bank) which is in the business of making money to have charged me $3.60 for somehow making the connections and getting me $360 of my own money from several thousand miles away in a split second. Frankly, I think they've earned it. Don't misunderstand me. If there is no charge, that's even better, and we've gotten spoiled in the past by there not being any charge. I'm just saying I don't see anything wrong if the banks or the transfer services do start charging that. I'd like to see how I could make a phone call home and have someone send me $360 of my own money for less than $3.60 total! And to me it's worth that measly amount not to have to be carrying around huge sums for weeks at a time, but to be able to go get whatever I want at the drop of a hat from a machine on the corner anywhere in Europe.
