cigalechanta

exactly, tully, It was what I was trying to say in an not so obvious way. That when you are younger, go for it. Do not get pigeon-holed, Be adventurous while you are young.

mcgeezer

After one escorted tour I've decided to to take the next one when I'm at least
80 or 90.

twoflower

You have received lots of advice on this question. The thing is, if an escorted tour is not age-limited, then it will predominantly comprise people older than yourself. If it is age-limited (Contiki's under-35 tours for example) it will be a booze-and-vomit spectacular of drunken nights and days spent sleeping off your hangovers. So if you really are keen on travel and seeing new places, and feel uncomfortable with older people, best do your own thing.

Melissajoy

I planned our family's first trip to Italy, and we returned recently from our independent 2-week trip in June...Wow! It was stunning...awesome...mind-boggling. Do it on your own, absolutely! I saw people on group tours seeing the same things that we saw, and they looked like a herd of cows...and just about that un-excited. I felt sorry for them.

The secret to a successful independent tour is research, research, don't be lazy. Be informed. You need to know all kinds of important things, such as make reservations for the Uffizi Gallery in Florence so you won't have to wait in line, for example.

If I was in my 20's, the only group tour I would consider going on is a Rick Steve's tour, because I used his books and also Fodor's books and Frommers books to help plan our independent trip, and I can tell from his books that Rick Steve's tours would be great...However, I am in my 40's and although I'm in good health I'm out of shape, and I wouldn't be able to keep up with the pace of his tours. Therefore I planned our family's trip independently. I travelled with my husband, a biologist in his 40's in great shape; my 22-year-old son and 2 teenage daughters.

I planned the trip keeping in mind the needs of everyone in the family, and everyone in the family agrees this is the best family trip we ever had. yay for independent travel, and thanks to message boards like fodors, frommers, slow travel, etc., we can help each other too.

If you want to do your independent trip right, I recommend you stick to only 3 hotels as your base, and that means choosing 3 cities or small towns as your base. Spend 4 or 5 nights in each of these cities, taking day tours from your base. (For example if you choose Siena as your base, you can do a day-tour of florence from Siena.)

The worst thing I noticed about the tour groups I saw was they had to see everything in a big mob of people. We kept trying to get out of their way so we could enjoy a section of a museum or enjoy a beautiful church on our own, instead of being in a mob.

Many people who do escorted tours think that people who travel independently have to stand in long lines. Not if you plan well! We didn't wait in any lines. I had museum reservations where they were available and we skipped those lines. For places where you can't get reservations, I researched the least crowded time and we enjoyed these sights at the least crowded times.

Also you can hire a private licensed guide for a wonderful private tour just for your family, and then you can choose your own guide and ask all the questions you want. Ask on message boards for names of good private licensed guides. They charge about 40 euros per hour in Italy. A 3-hour walking tour with a good private licensed guide is enough to get you started in the morning, for example in Ancient Rome this is how we started.

And you get to choose your own hotels...right in the center of the best locations! You get to choose your own restaurants, choose what you want to eat, and choose when you want to eat.

We had such a terrific time in Italy...I'm planning a trip to Ireland now...Plus a second trip to Italy!

MarthaT

You might want to also check out a pkg deal vacation where the travel agent or tour company books everything but you are on your own to see what you want to see.
This would help you out with flights and hotels and maybe a day trip or two but leave the rest of your time free.

Sheryl

Sarah, my husband and I are the same age range as you and your husband (late 20's/early 30's), and we decided to go with Monograms independent travel tours, which is a part of Globus, for our first trip to Europe earlier this year. My parents went on a two-week "Taste of Europe" -type tour with several of their friends last summer, and they complained about not having enough time to do what they wanted (mainly shopping for my mom), as well as not being able to see certain sights since they weren't open on the days that they visited. We had two half-day tours, which gave us a taste of the escorted-tour life and were very restrictive time-wise, included with our package, so we were thankful that we didn't have two weeks of that. I was glad that I planned the trip on my own since my husband and I were able to spend our time as we wanted. You can check out the website (www.monogramstravel.com), but they have limited options for Italy and none for Greece. Also, the hotels aren't too close to the popular areas, but we didn't have a problem since the Tube and Metro stops were right by our hotels.

Elizabeth

If you are open to planning your own trip you are in the right place, as there are people on this board who will help you with any aspect of it.

Do you feel daunted by planning? By what aspects of it? I like someone's suggestion of a package as an alternative to a tour - air plus hotel.
I also liked the "go to three places" suggestion, using those places as a base for day-trips.

Do you know what your main interests in European travel might be? -- a food focus, a physical activity focus (walking, hiking), an artwork focus, a focus on going where locals go?

1. If your trip will be several weeks - what about this: two weeks planned by yourselves, one week - the middle one - take a great walking tour. Country walkers has a good reputation, so does Oxford.

2. If you plan trip yourselves, my suggestion: get a short-ish book - Fodors' books really are good - and just follow their itinerary. This will make it less overwhelming. The author of a travel book knows more than you (or me for that matter) so I'd trust him/her to plan out my first trip.

(And of course skip the things that sound boring to you. But Fodors for example is good about -"if you have 3 days - if you have 5 days" etc.)

3. Then - come here for suggestions about your hotels and your food, about side trips, things people like/hate etc.

LindaJaguar

I've been traveling on vacation overseas for 28 years and I've done both tour groups and traveled on my own. My best advice is to figure out your "travel personality" to the type of travel experience you want. I was 22 when I first traveled to Europe for 45 days on my own. I bought guide books, decided where I wanted to go, made all the travel arrangements and based myself in a city like Paris or Rome for at least 5 days, took an initial city tour and then was on my own to enjoy the sights. It was the adventure of a lifetime! I also traveled to Greece on my own for 3 weeks and since I get motion sickness real easy, I flew to the different islands. Included in that 3 weeks I also did a 4 day escorted tour of northern Greece - so you can do any kind of combination you want.

With all of the resources available on the internet it is very easy to find out any info you need to plan a trip, but like other people have said - research is crucial. Whether you go on your own or with a tour group, research everthing.

When I started visiting countries like China, Egypt, Morocco and Thailand, I took escorted tours because my friends didn't want to visit those countries with me and I felt it was easier as a single woman. I was usually the youngest person in the group but there always seemed to be somebody to have fun with!

I have never had a problem with any of the tours I've taken because I scoured every source available to find a tour that fit my needs - you can find tours for your age group if that's the way you want to go. There are also tours that build in free time so you're not with the group all the time. You don't always have to stay with the group all the time - as long as you make your way back to the hotel, you can spend extra time at a site that interests you. You can also add time at the beginning or end of the tour. It all depends on your personality and knowing what you want out of your vacation, travels, etc.
For me, one of the important parts of my travels is the pre-planning. You can find out train schedules, hotel and restaurant reviews, the number to call to make museum reservations in Florence - believe me compared to 28 years ago - planning a trip is a breeze now!

There are advantages and disadvantages to both - it depends on your comfort level and how much responsibility you want to take for planning your trip. Whatever you choose, just ENJOY!

lesky

Hi Sara,

I have been merely a passive researcher reading postings on this site for a few months. The advice from wise and experienced travelers has been thoughtful and I'm convinced it has saved me unwanted bad experiences. Little did I realize that despite being a newbie, I would be actively responding to a post! Bear in mind that I am not a seasoned European traveler; yet I hope you find this response helpful.

My husband and I and our good friends will be leaving in about 3 weeks on an escorted tour to the Perigord region of France. It's basically a 20th anniversary trip in our eyes. We were in France 20 years ago for our honeymoon, and I had organized the whole thing then from books mostly (and guts, since neither of us had been there before). It was a pretty good trip--I would now rate it about a B+, considering my limited experience and all. The most positive memorable things about that trip were the things we got right--going on suggestions for places to see (Paris plus Cote d'Azur then Brittany and on to south of England) based on research, brochures, travel books, and especially photos. Many of the fondest memories for us both were of moments when we were having a totally relaxed time, being well taken care of at a cozy dinner in a small out-of-the-way place. Even the simplest experiences or foods--cheese, wine, bread--stand out as wonderful when they were enjoyed in a low-stress way, and both my husband and I can pull out those details 20 years later and reminisce dreamily. Same thing with charming acquaintances under the same circumstances. Twenty years later, that is what we savor and want to experience again.

The negative things that stand out for me now were those stressful aspects--finding a restaurant when we were tired that had the kind of fare we wanted; struggling to get the French phrase right or drawing a blank when the waiter was standing waiting for the order, train schedules and train changes under hectic circumstances; driving an unfamiliar rental car looking at a map with the kilometers clearly marked yet finding it took three times longer than we thought and being frustrated by the time we arrived; carrying around a lot of (heavy!) guidebooks and maps because I was insecure, etc.

Nowadays we of course have online research options, web booking, ATMs, and frequent flyer miles to make planning trips easier and more efficient. But I have to tell you, I got unexpectedly excited (I tend towards skepticism) about the tour we ended up signing up for. I was even more geeked when it was so easy to convince our neighbors (much more seasoned European travelers than we!)to come along. They do a good deal of traveling, mostly for business, and have been around the European block as they say, and they jumped on this trip with gusto.

The trip is for as few as four or for no more than eight people. It is led by a local guide from the area. (The guides seem to stay a long time with the company, so that suggests something positive too.) It is organized by REI Adventures and yes, (ahem!) it is an "adventure" trip. But it was just what we wanted. It is a day hiking trip of 9 days' duration which goes through a great many of the Perigord's most memorable places. After breakfast at your small inn/hotel, you hike 3 or 4 miles with a light day pack carrying your lunch; you see a stunning site during midday, with lots of flex time, and you hike 3 miles or so to back to the small hotel/inn where you clean up and then indulge in the gustatory delights of the region until the wee hours, if you want. Each inn/hotel stay is two nights. When you move, your heavy luggage/gear gets transported to the next town for you. All you need to carry is your lunch and water. (And camera).

The sites include those things we would go to on our own, but without the benefit of group or local tour guide savvy/clout. We will see both Lascaux II and Font de Gaume; Montbazillac winery (wine tasting included); a traditional goose farm; Castlenaud and Rocamadour; and several of the more quaint towns like Sarlat and Domme.

This particular trip is considered moderate hiking, which is not too trying for people who like to walk or are outdoorsy people anyway. Plus it really appealed to us to see the countryside from even more in depth points of view than a car could give--nor being burdened by parking a car.

I really believe I'll have those same special memories of moments of looking out over the Dordogne from the path, or hearing a songbird maybe in a copse. And even though we have our friends built-in to the trip, because it is a little more unique it is likely to draw people that are more like us than different than us. It turns out that our trip is only seven people total.

By far we are most pleased with the balance of the trip--not too much physical activity, but enough to keep us guilt-free over eating that rich regional food; not too many people; the tour sites are varied so we won't be overloaded with any one thing; great accommodations in quaint inns with terrific food and a picturesque town to walk around in after dinner, and most importantly--the stuff that I find stressful is all taken care of, leaving us a lot more carefree than otherwise.

We have heard only from one other person about an REI trip. It was a ravingly positive report. It was from a young college-aged guy who went by himself to Thailand with REI and was totally thrilled--felt 100% taken care of when he needed it and left to explore when he didn't. He loved seeing the small villages, meeting locals, sharing meals with them, and having companion travelers who were likewise into the experience.

We are REI members (costs about $15 a year and gives you a trip discount) and use REI's local store, mostly for sale items for outdoor stuff, camping and the like. The company's attitude has always seemed consistent, prepared, respectful of the outdoors, and flexible. So I expect the same of the trip. We got a detailed packet which was well organized and informative when we signed up.

They have a range of less to more strenuous trips--hiking, biking, kayaking, or a mixture--and have these small, intimate groups on almost all of them. I did notice some Greece trips and of course several to Italy, France, Germany, etc. as well as all over the world. If you want the URL it is http://www.rei.com/adventure/index.h...der_adventures. You can judge for yourself whether it is for the two of you or not. The trip photos and slideshows are very enticing!

But, we wouldn't think of going all the way to France without doing more. So in our case we are adding time in Paris ahead of the organized trip and adding time after the trip to Normandy before going home. And that part will be up to me to arrange and coordinate. But, we are sticking with trains, walkable villages and sites, and fewer things to carry along. (Partly it is also a research trip so I have some specific things I need to see) Maybe I can give myself an upgrade to an A- this time!

In any case, I apologize for the length of my post. I really just wanted to point out some possibilities that I thought might meet your concerns, (which seemed familiar to me of our own decision process) and explain how we arrived at our decision. And these days, because of the internet, you can easily go check it out if you want and either pursue it or eliminate it from consideration right away.

I agree with all that has been said about research. It has really made a difference in our approach to this trip. At this point I can only be optimistic that it will be even more unforgettable than our first trip!

Sincerely,
Lesky

walkinaround

I would not consider doing a tour in Europe. The thought of walking into a restaurant with 15 - 20+ other americans is not for me. No matter what the advert says, you will only go to tour-group-friendly restaurants. certainly not the places you want to be. some tour groups claim to know all the "secret" local places. don't believe it.

That said, I think for some older people (old at heart) who want to make it to europe and cannot go any other way because they could not operate without the safety of the tour group, then it makes sense.

i don't think the actual age of the tour group members is as important as how old people act. in general, i think europeans, australians, nz, etc older people have much more youth in them than american older people. generalization, i know so forgive me. so if you can find a tour group that caters to these nationalities you may like it more. they just tend to be more open minded, active, and patient in the face of inconvenience in my experience. many of the older americans expect everything to be just like home (except with the european charm thrown in) and they get cranky, demanding, and impatient when it is not.

hopingtotravel

Lesky, I hope you enjoy your tour. Being raised in the PacNW, REI has always been a favorite store. We'll look forward to your trip report.

itsallgood

An escorted tour depends on where you are going. If you want to learn about the thing you are touring and want lots of information on it then I would suggest an escorted tour. You have to remember most tours go by kind of fast so if you want to spend time where ever you are going, dont go the tour way. Good Luck

GSteed

Our best tour was a weeklong canal boat trip. We joined the group on Saturday and left it on the following Sunday. The food was superb. We saw parts of England that some locals have never seen. We had tour members who do a similar tour every year. One couple was covering all of England with canal boat travels. We also learned that it is possible to rent and do your own trip.

eroz

I dont' like tours but my coworker (age 35) went on a bus tour in Italy and said he and his wife were way the youngest people on it. Ick.

Elena2005

We went w/ GoAhead Vacations to Lux/Amsterdam/Belgium in 2002 & it was fabulous. Our group was about 25 and of various ages (from 20s to 60s). Except for the first night in a city (welcome dinners included), we are on our own to explore for dinners. This group has EXCELLENT multilingual guides.They offer optional excursions which are well worth the small fee. We went on all of them. We are now ready to take our 18 yr old on their London/Paris/Rome trip in June. We were very impressed with their professionalism, courtesy and knowledge. One evening, the tour guide Suzanne (A Dane who lives in Paris) took us on a guided tour of the Red Light district of Amsterdam (on her own time and no charge). She was funny and just delightful. Wish we could get her on this 2005 trip! I highly recommend GoAhead Vacations.

cmt

Since I usually go on trips alone, and I am not willing to rent and drive a car alone, I take tours when I want to go to places where I would not be able to get around easily and efficiently by public transportation. I love small group tours (generally 10 peopl e or fewer), and they are not at all like the stereotypical tours described by some people (by people who never take tours) in this thread.

I've taken small group walking/hiking tours in several areas of Italy, France and Greece. They always focus on just part of one region, and they do not cover a lot of territory in the course of a week. Generally, they stay in smaller hotels and inns with some unique character, in the town center or in the country. It's a very slow way to travel, and probably not ideal for a first-time trip to any country. The main problem with these tours is that they are expensive, and they have become much more expensive in the fewb years that have passed since I last took one.

I also took a small-group, but more traditional, though still "active" tour to Turkey this past October. Unlike the hiking toiurs, this one covered a lot of territory. It met my needs perfectly for seeing Turkey for the first and possibly only time, but I wouldn't want to take a tour like that in western Europe.

amelia

Is there a reason this post from early August was brought back?

LoveItaly

Amelia, probably because the original date of the posting was not noticed.

But this tread still gives some good info so no harm done.

Huitres

Personally, I would avoid an escorted/organized tour. I like to be in charge of my own destiny and I plan my entire trip each time. I am sure it would be worth your while to get some great guide books (I recommend "Let's Go!" because of their good recommendations re: hotels and restaurants, all reasonably priced) and target the areas you want to see (Let's Go: France and Let's Go: Italy). Then research the cities you want to visit, highlighting points of interest in each. Then you can do a connect-the-dot with the train travel and tie it all together. That way you are on your own time/schedule, not hostage to someone else's.

If you are dead-set on a tour of some sort, then take a city-specific historical walking tour, within a city. In Italy, for example, the Scala Reale tours in Rome are a great way to explore the ruins with a knowledgeable guide, booked as an appt on your own time.

Beatle

The bottom line to this was aptly expressed by Linda- What's your comfort level, and it's about assuming responsibility. If you want to choose a middle ground, why not look into a customized group tour which Go Ahead offers. This allows you to set up an itinerary yourself(a rep from the group can give you guidance) and yet other details are taken care of such as hotel bookings, transfers, meals- and you can have input on those as well. My wife and I set up a trip like this with 9 other couples and it was great. Once the itinerary is decided, you could contact friends, relatives and see what interest there is- you might be surprised!