StCirq

Carla: <BR> <BR>I'm with JOdy: use a plunger-type coffee maker to get that European coffee flavor. You can't make more than two or three cups at a time, but the flavor is worth it. <BR> <BR>

YS

I think London reminds New York quite a bit in "melting pot" kind of way.

Escritora

No New Yorkers chiming in? OK. I live in NYC and last visited London in March. My cousin Jamie, who lives there, was here in February. We agreed that there are parts of the cities (ie Times Square/Picadilly) that are like scaled up or scaled down (depending on your perspective) versions of one another. But each has its distinctive charms and landmarks. The Empire State Building is not Big Ben. And I, at least, definitely had the sense of being Somewhere Else while I was in London. <BR> <BR>Some observations: <BR> <BR>The restaurants are better in NYC. The bookshops are better in London. <BR> <BR>You can't get a decent bagel in London. You can get bangers and mash in NYC, though I could recommend any number of better alternatives. <BR> <BR>The theater is (MUCH) cheaper in London. And way too many people in each city are spending good money and time on "Les Miz". <BR> <BR>London has Little Venice. NYC has the Gowanus Canal. <BR> <BR>Double-decker buses in London beat our ground transport here. And the London cabs are considerably more roomy, comfortable, and likely to be driven by someone who knows your destination. <BR> <BR>London has the House of Lords. NYC has The House That Ruth Built. <BR> <BR>The remaking of the British Museum made a return visit well worth while. As does the continued uncontrolled growth of the Met. <BR> <BR>On the other hand, NYC is anticipating its THIRD Guggenheim (after the Frank Lloyd Wright original and the SoHo branch) and London has no Guggenheim at all. Not entirely sure who gets the advantage in this one. <BR> <BR>London has the Tower where Anne Boleyn was beheaded. New York (OK, New Jersey) has the (American) football Giants, under whose goal post Jimmy Hoffa is reputed to be buried. <BR> <BR>Finally, Rudy Giuliani has not demanded to be called the Lord Mayor. Yet. <BR> <BR>See the difference now?

Dan

A lot of Europe is starting to look like America. Mainly because old structures are being replaced by new cookie cutter-drywall structures. It's impossible to build like it was 100 years ago. The years 1950-1980 were not good for american cities. However we've finally starting preserving architecture. Places like Chicago and New York are looking great these days with the rebirth of Harlem and the South Loop. Many of Chicago's recently refurbished theatres were on the verge of being bulldozed 10 years ago. I look at the carvings and paintings on the ceiling and I wonder why restoring them <BR>took so long. I respect Prince Charles for being such a supporter of architectural preservation. Demolition of grand old buildings to be replaced by multi-story parking garages is ludicrous, and if enough people spoke up it wouldn't happen.

Carla

Jody and St. Cirq, <BR> <BR>Thank you SO much for the coffee advice. I'm off to the store! <BR> <BR>P.S. I saw Les Miz for $5, Evita for $10 and Rent for $14 (not the special seats) in London. Try that in New York!

Simon

I have lived and worked in both New York City and London. Both are very appealing, but I prefer New York City. It has more zest for life, better museums, superb restaurants, modern amenities and magnificent nightlife. I do see a resemblance of some sort, but I find that to be quite positive. If immigrants are scaring you away from visiting NYC and London, please stay home, lock your doors, close your blinds, disconnect your phones & tv's, and turn off your lights. Now you're in your "perfect", "proper" little world.

mari

bravo to ben haines and everybody else who stuck up for multiculturalism! my ancestors were immigrants; so were those of most of my fellow americans. and i like that london, like other fortuitously situated places in the world, reflects increasing diversity among its people. <BR> <BR>in this vein, and i'm commenting on the multicultural aspect of this thread only, the only racism i've encountered in travels across europe came in london--from other americans.

BTilke

In the early 1980s, I spent some time in Hampstead and loved the area's peaceful, village feel, despite being so close to central London. When we paid a visit to London in late 2000, I insisted my husband come up with me to enjoy the serenity of Hampstead. <BR>What a shock!! The streets were jammed with cars, those cars were blasting (British, not American) "gangster rap", honking horns, the local pubs had been replaced with ersatz chain versions, completed with loudly colored laminated menu cards advertising their special "house" cocktails, the sidewalks were dirty, shopkeepers were abrupt, and so on. We had lunch in the quietest place we could find--a nice little restaurant that turned out to also be part of a chain--and then beat a hasty retreat. I may go to London for a special museum exhibit or business, but the city has, IMO, definitely caved in to the "greed is good" make it while you can and the hell with everybody else mantra. I anything, I found the people in NYC (which I just visited for the first time in 3 years) much nicer and friendlier. <BR>My parents spent a long week-end in London last year--their first trip there in a decade--and came back a little sad. They said that as senior citizens, they were definitely out of place in central London. Gray hair, they noted, had become a rare sight (they were also gray-haired on their last visit and felt perfectly comfortable) and somehow unwelcome. <BR>And we won't go into the deterioration of the Tube...fairly regularly, my husband gets calls from recruiters with job offers in London. We won't even consider them. <BR>But I don't want to have all these changes blamed on "Americanization" because that's an unfair rap. I just spent two weeks back in the U.S., in Chestnut Hill and Center City Philly and Connecticut, where people were friendly, helpful and polite, the streets were clean, non-chain restaurants and shops were doing great business, and the pace was, in fact, pleasant and easygoing. I hate this knee-jerk condemnation of "Americanization" by Europeans who simply want somebody else to take the blame for their own problems. <BR>BTilke

HonestAbe

Let's be honest, multi-culturalism is killing London. I know your not supposed to say that, pc and all, but its true. <BR>Too many poor minorities. New York has to deal with that too. When we envision desireable London, we're not thinking of Africans. Bring on the nasty responses, but you know its true.

Carla

Abe: Let me be the first to disagree! London has welcomed immigrants for centuries, and that's what's added to it's richness and greatness as a city. <BR> <BR>Now that you can find the whole "British Empire" in London, it's that much richer and more fun. <BR>The Asian work-ethic and respect for education, the variety of music and art and cuisine you can get there now, all just add to London, in my opinion.

Laura

ALW, <BR> <BR>If this commercialization and consumerism is not an "specifically American" thing then why are all these places American companies? You can go into a somewhat large city in Europe without seeing McDonalds, Pizza Hut, Kentucky Fried Chicken and Starbucks, Gap, etc...

Escritora

"Abe": I presume your intent is to be a provocateur. You have indeed succeeded at being an intensely distasteful one, not only for the content of your comments but for making them under the name of the signer of the Emancipation Proclamation. Read your history. It's the Brits and other Europeans who destroyed much of African culture, not the reverse. <BR> <BR>Cultural interchanges add a richness to life that counts as one of my chief motivators for living in NYC. Living here has given me the opportunity to form friendships with emigres from Spain, Haiti, India, South Africa, Australia, Colombia, Argentina, and surely others I am forgetting at the moment. And just this week, my Korean greengrocer replied to a question of mine in "Spanglish"--half Spanish, half English--without even realizing it until I pointed it out to her; we proceeded to have a good laugh and conclude our transaction in Spanish, though it's neither her nor my native tongue. <BR> <BR>Laura: For what it's worth, there's no Gap in Copenhagen--which is why when I met my Danish friend in London this March I had to accompany her to a Gap so she could buy some of her favorite T-shirts! But you're right, of course. I was none too pleased that my first sight of the Andes, glimpsed from the air as we came in to land in Quito, was marred by the glare of Kentucky Fried Chicken neon.

HonestAbe

Blah, blah, blah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes most countries have experienced immigrants for years. However the influx, of Africans, Mexicans, Haitians etc. does nothing except drive the crime rate up. It's not cool to admit, but most people feel the same way. Remember when people from London and Paris looked down on Americans who complained about blacks? Now they're doing it as well.

Mike

Re the food comparison. Can you get Indian food of the same range/quality in NYC as London? If so, could someone name names, for future reference. <BR> <BR>I have to weigh in in support of multiculturalism. So racism is endemic to the human condition; however, I read that one third of children born in the UK are of "mixed" race. I think I'm proud of that, and I believe that it marks a real difference between the two cities. <BR> <BR>Also, re Ben Haines' notes on ale and tea. Tea is antiseptic, and current wisdom is that the UK and Japan were able to "grow" cities with populations above 20,000 before other countries because the mass population drank tea - boiled water mixed with antiseptic herbs which prevented spread of water borne disease. So, if you are only alive because your great great grandparents drank tea, you probably have a cultural affinity to the stuff!

Spider

In regard to the spread of American culture, I agree that American companies have benefited greatly, but only because the rest of the world is buying their stuff. If Europeans didn't buy American products, these companies would pack up and leave in a heartbeat. <BR> <BR>No one is forcing the locals to step inside a Gap and buy a pair of Khakis. They do it because they apparently want to. Why they want to is another question. Too much Hollywood influence? Same thing, they go to see the movies that they want to see. <BR> <BR>If people are tired of America's influence, they need to start at home to change it. Tossing stones across the Atlantic won't help. <BR>

Laura

I guess the consumerism that has plagued America for the last 20 years is what gets me. Everything is supersized, including the people. Fast food has become a way of life, not an occasional treat. In the office where I work, almost everyone orders in, every day. No one ever cooks, or prepares something to bring in. All the big stadiums, concert halls that we went to as teenagers have been re-named bearing a corporate name. Ridiculous!

Elwood

I can see this one turning into another anti-America rant. This thread's topic asks if London is becoming more like New York. Is it losing it's "uniqueness" (whatever that is)? Thank you Ben for your reply (BTW I am a Canadian which isn't an issue here I guess).So far a lot of people seem to be saying it is becoming faster paced and very consumer-orientated perhaps losing it's "charm". I also get the impression that only a wealthier class can afford to reside in the central areas due to the high rents which also affect the small shops remaining there (much like what has happened to San Francisco). I have never been there myself so I am not sure what it was like a decade ago. I was in Paris in '95 and loved it and would go back in a minute. Put it this way, I can get a decent 2 star hotel in Paris, with bathroom, for $90 Canadian but a similar place in London would cost me $160. So, is London worth the cost for an unique experience? I guess I need to visit and judge for myself.

Ben Haines

Fodors <BR> <BR>I agree that the tube has gone downhill, and in an act of Americanisation that I like our Mayor has appointed the man who won back the NY subway to do the same for us. <BR> <BR>We have strong planning laws, but in the end we cannot live by beauty lone. There are three world financial markets, New York, Tokyo, and London. Frankfurt would like to replace us in our time zone. We export ideas and knowlege, not solid goods, and since teleworking never did take off we need the spaces to do that. <BR> <BR>It's not new. In 1945 as in 1585 the view from the south bank had the city church towerrs well above the general building level -- not now. Bruges decided to limit height sometime in the twenties, and is a delightful city, but is no world leader in invisible exports. <BR> <BR>And it's not easy. The pleasant old Borough Market near London Bridge <BR>is mostly the old London, and even the new is London-like, a pastrycook, a cheese-monger, and a fish restaurant. But to get plenty of through trains from Hertfordshire and Bedfordshire to Kent and Sussex a railway company wants to knock down two old pubs and four market trading spaces. The trains will take cars off the roads. Who should win ? <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>Ben Haines

John

Before you start taking off on the "Americanization" of London, consider for a moment that the global headquarters of Burger King and the Pillsbury Dough Boy can be found in Henrietta Street, London W1 (part of the Diageo PLC group created by the wedding of those mom-and-pop outfits <BR>Guinness and Grand Met.) <BR> <BR>Both cities are the centers of global political, cultural, and corporate empires, and both continue to be magnets for immigrants, artists, up-and-comers and down-and-outers of all flavors. Look past the Starbucks or the TV guide and you'll see there are still really exciting communities of all sorts of interesting people living lives quite different from their counterparts across the water. I'm never confused as to which place I'm in, especially when I step off the kerb/curb and look left or is that right? I also mind the gap on the IRT.

Capo

Good points, Spider (and touché, John, for your note about the Diageo PLC group.) <BR> <BR>Sophisticated marketing helps stimulate demand for goods and services, but the bottom line is that, if American goods and services sell in Europe, it's because people want them.