NoleNomad

Thanks to all who have responded. A lot of very useful info here.

Thanks to gruezi, in particular, for the details of her situation. Fascinating to read and very insightful. I wish your family the best, gruezi.

Celiaanne

I love this thread! I haven't ever lived "abroad" and it's very unlikely that I ever will, but how interesting to hear how others handle it.

Thanks to all for sharing your experiences.

janisj

I lived in the UK for 5 years long ago and it was the defining period of my life. Loved, LOVED it! Was there for my ex-husband's job and since I didn't have a work visa - it was really a 5 year vacation for me

I took total advantage - into London for the day for shows and shopping, joining the village WI, volunteering at an art co-op in Oxford and traveling whenever and whereever I liked. My husband loved it too and we traveled quite a bit together but I got to do much more.

It was sort of an artificial set up for me - Late 20's-early 30's -- prime work time and I was "at leisure". But I learned so much about myself and other cultures I would not have given it up for anything. It did take be a couple of years to catch up professionally when I got back to the States. But eventually that worked out - and I honestly think the confidence I gained living overseas helped speed up my advancement.

I'd go back to live in the UK in a heartbeat - but of course it could never be the same in different circumstances.

One issue - I do have a sort of 5 year blind spot when it comes to US and hometown culture/events/news. It would be easier now w/ on-line media and such. I felt (and sort of still feel) a bit like Rip van Winkle when it comes to things that happened back home while I was overseas.

shelly_m

I have one friend (and her family) who lived in Germany for three years, and one friend (and her family) who lived in Australia for three years. All I can say is that they both came back changed...for the better, I think.

Just wanted to thank everyone for sharing. What an interesting lot of information.

atpmrphnp

My advise is geared to people with kids. I have just moved back from the states after living in the UK for a little over 6 years. It was a very hard move back, especially with kids. The older they are the harder it is. Will they survive-- Yes, but it has been a lot of ups and downs. We still have lots of tears. My kids were very young, so for them, they truely have moved to a foreign country.

Grcxx3

Well - I'll add my "book" to this VERY appropriate topic!

After 7 years of living overseas (4 years in Egypt and 3 years in Azerbaijan) - we are heading back to the US this summer. We had hoped - and were really expecting - to move to Moscow, but issues have surfaced recently that just makes that move impossible right now.

And because my kids will be in 10th and 11th grades next year - we need to have some guaranteed stability for the next 3 years to get them finished and off to college. That - and aging parents - have led us to our decision to go back to the US. We won't be moving "home" per se - but I'll be within a 5 hour drive or a quick plane ride of my parents, so that is a plus.

We have loved being expats and have tried to take advantage of every opportunity given to us. We have travelled all over as a family and have some really incredible memories from more countries than I can count! In addition, my kids have gone on some fabulous school-related trips - India, Moscow, Tanzania, Jordan, Beijing, Abu Dhabi, Prague & Slovenice, Tblisi (Georgia).

My younger son maintains a list of his favorite pizza places all over the world and my parents quiz him each summer to see if there are any new additions (a pizza "window" in Venice has recently been added to the top group - along with places in Salzburg, Queesntown NZ, and New Orleans).

The school in Cairo was basically an American curriculum with international/Egyptian add-ons. The school here in Baku follows a different curriculum (IB) and took some getting used to. While I'm not thrilled with everything about the program - after 3 years my kids are leaving with great writing and analytical skills, which I just can't complain about.

We have become closer as a family and have learned to adjust to new situations with flexibility and a big sense of humor. We "think" in meters and liters and kilograms and understand bits of Arabic and Russian (my DH is actually quite conversant in Russian). My sons have friends of many different nationalities and IM and email with friends on almost every continent.

But life isn't always easy. As gruezi said - cooking can be a major ordeal. Not being able to find the products you need, having to spend 3 hours going to various markets to HOPE to find something you're looking for, never being sure if the cut of beef you get is going to taste good, learning to live with the reality of "seasons" for fruits and veggies.

Shoot - just finding things is an issue. I once spent 2 weeks in Cairo looking for a SIMPLE pair of black pants for my son. I could find gray, dark navy, black with stripes, black with extra zippers and adornments, etc - but finding a plain pair of pants in his size was more difficult than it should have been. Based on that experience....when I needed to get him a black shirt - I had it made!

Health issues are also a concern - especially here. We've had every imaginable vaccination - but a simple broken bone can be a real issue. Being flown to the UK or Dubai or Vienna for medical treatment is quite common around here. Luckily - the orthodontist is pretty good now (in the past people went to Dubai for monthly appointments).

But - we do miss our friends and family back it the US. We LOVE being there in the summers and shopping and enjoying all the good "comfort" foods. My mom knows how to stock the refridgerator for us. For the kids - Red Baron pizza, SunnyDelight, and orange sherbert. For me - Kendall Jackson Chardonnay and a Sara Lee coffeecake!

atpmrphnp

I meant to add that although schools are good in the UK (or any other country), the curriculum is different. We attended both private and state schools while there. My son came back in the 7th grade and he is lost. He was always in the top math class in England, but did not test as well in math in the states. I am not worried about his ability, but he just has not learned the same material. So even moving in the middle school years can impact their high school years.

I loved the UK and we are dual citizens now, so we can always go back. I would tell anyone to jump at any chance to experience another country, but throw caution to the wind when it comes to children. Just consider their personality and their age when moving and returning, especially if they will not be in a school that does not offer an american curriculum.

NorCalif

I've found this thread so interesting - I also really appreciate those of you who took the time to write about your experiences. I am about to be an expat (although just for a year) - I am from the US and my husband is due to start a year-long sabbatical in Amsterdam, beginning in August.

I will be the "trailing spouse" and will not have a work visa, so that will be an adjustment for me. Our kids are in college, so the adjustment of children isn't an issue for us. Actually our youngest child will be doing her junior year abroad in Paris at the same time we're in Amsterdam, so I am looking forward to visiting back and forth occasionally - it's only 4 hours or so by train.

I grew up as an Air Force kid, so spent most of my childhood moving around. I lived in Tokyo for a few years - so have had a small taste of a kind of expat life there and of course it was a much bigger cultural difference for an American than western Europe.

I'll tell you my preconceptions of the upcoming year and we'll see if they turn out to be correct or not: I'm expecting the adjustment to Amsterdam to not be tremendously hard in terms of cultural differences. And so many Dutch speak English well that I'm thinking that my lack of expertise in the local language may not be as crippling as it would be some places. When my husband made a preliminary trip to the university lab he will be doing research in there, he said he encountered absolutely NO language barrier. Except with a Scottish guy in the lab. Said he couldn't understand a word he said. ;->

To be perfectly honest, I'm looking forward to it except for one worry. This will sound amazingly shallow-Californian I'm sure, but I'm really worried about the weather there. I've looked at an expat site (expatica.com) - NoleNomad you might find it interesting, they have different sections for expats in different European countries - and a lot of people on that site, especially ones from warmer sunnier places, complain about the weather in Amsterdam. When I've lived in gray rainy climates before I've found it very depressing - I wish I wasn't the kind of person so affected by that, but I am. So I've told DH I just might be wintering in Greece while he works in Amsterdam ... (just kidding)

MomDDTravel

NorCal - doesn't sound shallow to this Southern California gal.

I will be anxious to hear about your time there and admit I think even with the weather it sounds fabulous!

I tried to get dh to apply for jobs with Chase that would require a move over the pond.

He spent years in the Navy in his twenties and says he loves the good ole USA soil. After being gone for a few years he was so happy to be back "home". So no go.

Please keep us posted!

NorCalif

Thanks MomDD - I do want to be clear I am very grateful for the opportunity and really looking forward to it - I certainly think Amsterdam will have many wonderful experiences and the weather is hardly what the whole trip will be about (I was just being honest about the fact that I know I am prone to being adversely affected emotionally by low sunshine levels and while coping with that change, being in a new place with no job and no friends does give me pause).

I will look forward to keeping you posted ...

MomDDTravel

I get the weather thing. We talk about moving back East and it is a major concern.

I think Greece sounded good ;-)

janisj

NorCalif: I actually prefer much of the weather in the UK to parts of the year here in NorCal. Spring and fall are wonderful here - but w/ 102º already here in Sac - the 66º in London sounds WONDERFUL to me. Should not have to use a/c in May fer cryin out loud! And our winter Tule fog in the Valley gets really depressing.

I loved having real seasons for the first time in my life. Winter will take some getting used to - especially w/ the very short daylight hours and cold. But the loooooong summer daylight helps make up for that a bit.

Grcxx3

just a note that I forgot to add to my little book a few posts up....

There is a great book called "Third Culture Kids." I would love to tell you the author - but the book is already packed up! The author actually came to our school in Cairo and spoke to the parents. It was fascinating.

I highly recommend this book for anyone thinking of moving overseas with kids. It gives a lot of pros/cons and lots of real-life stories.

Merseyheart

janisj, I spent a few years in Fresno, back in the early '80's, and boy, do I remember the heat. Every time I visit Vegas, memories of the San Joaquin Valley came back to me.

NorCalif, certainly the weather will affect you. I grew up in the Pacific Northwest, so when I visit the U.K., I feel more comfortable than some other Americans might. But the first time I visited Amsterdam, it was hot! It was in the 80's, everyone was out relaxing at the cafes, and I was wearing jeans. (Hey, I was headed to the U.K. next...how did I know Amsterdam would have a heat wave?)

NorCalif, have a fine, fine time living in Amsterdam for the next year. Keep us posted on what you miss, and what you learn. What an adventure!

travelgourmet

A couple of thoughts:

1) I think there is a huge difference in being an ex-pat and having a job where you travel all the time. In the first instance, you have a home base. In the second instance, I think you tend to get disconnected. And I'm not sure it is easier when you are young, as it can inhibit the growth of relationships and strain ones you already have.

And, assuming you are speaking of a job like consulting when you mention a job with a lot of travel, bear in mind that you don't always get to choose your assignments. And there are a lot of less-than-glamorous locales you might end up in. One tends to get sold on the idea of jetting to London for a few weeks/months, when the reality may end up being a long-term assignment in Columbus, Ohio.


2) The ex-pat experience can also differ, depending upon your company. Some companies have more generous packages than others. You may find it a financial bonanza or you might find it tough to afford the type of lifestyle you might want or have become used to.

And it is likely much, much tougher to do this on your own. The amount of support many companies offer is staggering. School tuition. Real Estate agents. Language classes. Professional tax help. Having professional help with this stuff can be huge.

inessa0923

When I first moved to Europe, I loved it and thought I'd never leave. The longer I'm away from the US, however, the more I miss it. We'll probably go back in a few years.

gruezi

Thanks everyone for bearing with my long post. And thanks for all the experiences you've all shared - I have really enjoyed this thread. Thanks NoleNomad! I often wish we had an ex-pat board on Fodor's...

Just wanted to say the "Third Culture Kids" author is Robin Pascoe. She has written another excellent book called "The Moveable Marriage" which I highly recommend for the trailing spouse. Also, great for teenagers is "We're Moving Where?" by Ben Voegele. This is a quick, easy book and great for first time movers.

NorCal - The weather in Zurich is grey, grey, grey and yes it brings out the SAD. I have heard Amsterdam is worse, so do plan your travels to Italy and such for some sunshine! You might even get some lamps to help out. You will have a wonderful year I'm sure. Travel a lot, there is an American Women's Club in Amsterdam so join it right away for those lonely times when you just need to talk to someone. I love Amsterdam and wished we could move there for a bit. The culture is friendlier and the food better than Zurich, IMO. Enjoy every minute...don't worry about the days you feel you got nothing done. That is all part of the experience. Get to Keukenhof and tell us all about it!


Regarding Schooling - from my experience...

It will be different! You will respect your child's present education more when you move from the US. I'm glad my kids got the basics in one school system and we moved when they were a bit older. It is tricky coming back when there are gaps in their knowledge particularly in Math and Science. The International Baccalaureate (IB) does do a great job with writing skills, but the other parts of the curriculum are very different. If you can, move your kids for the entire high school years. They can apply to top US Universities with a European education with no problem. It's the transition back into a US high school that can be tough and may set them behind their more competitive peers. Plus, in international schools, lots of kids are new, it's very normal to move every few years, and your child will not stick out. In the return to the US, they may be the only new kid.

You will have to be more proactive and involved about your child's testing, extracurricular activities, and college applications should you decide to apply from Europe to the US Universities. (We are doing that now.) But, you will miss about 80% of the insane college hype and that is wonderful for your child and for you

Yes, it is tricky moving teenagers. There were A LOT of tears. But I will say it's worked out for us. Plus, I feel it has been such a gift to have this time with my 17-year-old before she goes to college. We do a lot together, and I know if we were in the US I would barely be seeing her. Plus, with the lower drinking age, your child can figure out the whole drinking thing legally, without the driving as the driving age is higher here, and with you around to help them experiment in a healthy way. OTOH, drinking starts in about 8th grade for some kids so thats the other side of the coin...

Thanks again everyone for your stories! If anyone has questions or needs support, I'm happy to help.

gruezi

AnselmAdorne

NorCalif, like gruezi, I immediately thought of seasonal affective disorder (SAD) when I read your concerns about grey, rainy weather.

It is a real issue for some people living in northern latitudes or in climates with prolonged periods of dense cloud cover. You can read a bit more about it in wikipedia.

Light therapy is a recognized treatment. This firm manufactures light boxes designed to treat SAD:

www.northernlighttechnologies.com

I use one of their lights from late October and late February every year. It doesn't eliminate all symptoms (I still experience a drop in energy), but it sure helps.

Good luck with your move to Amsterdam.

Anselm

atpmrphnp

Although you can't take away the gray skies, you can still enjoy any weather as there is no such thing as bad weather just bad clothing. A fantastic lesson learned by fellow englishmen!

Attitude is the key to adjustment anywhere.

travelgourmet

<i>It is tricky coming back when there are gaps in their knowledge particularly in Math and Science. The International Baccalaureate (IB) does do a great job with writing skills, but the other parts of the curriculum are very different.</i>

This pretty much sums up the differences between the European (or maybe, more precisely, British?) and US systems, in my estimation. Math and Science seems to be tossed aside at an earlier age, except for those that are going to actively pursue it. Even at the university level in the UK, I found many subjects like Economics and Political Science to place much less emphasis on mathematical methods than in the US.