anti American sentiment in Austria
Sep 22nd, 2003, 08:45 PM
#21
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I think we make a serious mistake in painting whole countries' attitudes toward America with one brush. Evem within America itself, we have wide differences of opinion as to the wisdom of our recent actions in the world.
And what does "anti-American" mean after all? Part of the experience of travel outside the States ought to be to step back and see ourselves from a distance and viw ourselves through others' eyes. Sometimes the view is startling and surprising and sometimes even mistaken, but it always offers the opportunity to learn and grow.
My sister and I had a fascinating experience in Garmisch Partenkirken at Gasthaus Fraundorf a couple of weeks ago, over dinner and wine at the hotel's restaurant. I goaded my German-speaking sister to mention President Bush to the two German couples who were sharing our table, a young pair from Erfert, in former East Germany, and an older pair from Frankfurt, in West Germany. The discussion became impassioned, and much of what the young east German couple said in opposition to our government in the heat of debate escaped my sister's translation ability. But the older woman was fierce in her defence of and affection for America, her eyes glistening with tears as she told the young east German how she would have starved in post-war Germany had it not been for the Americans and the food they provided. It touched us deeply. We want always to retain that standing in the world, that trust that even our former enemies have felt for us. If our friends in Germany, especially, question our actions, it ought to give us pause and make us re-examine what we are doing.
And what does "anti-American" mean after all? Part of the experience of travel outside the States ought to be to step back and see ourselves from a distance and viw ourselves through others' eyes. Sometimes the view is startling and surprising and sometimes even mistaken, but it always offers the opportunity to learn and grow.
My sister and I had a fascinating experience in Garmisch Partenkirken at Gasthaus Fraundorf a couple of weeks ago, over dinner and wine at the hotel's restaurant. I goaded my German-speaking sister to mention President Bush to the two German couples who were sharing our table, a young pair from Erfert, in former East Germany, and an older pair from Frankfurt, in West Germany. The discussion became impassioned, and much of what the young east German couple said in opposition to our government in the heat of debate escaped my sister's translation ability. But the older woman was fierce in her defence of and affection for America, her eyes glistening with tears as she told the young east German how she would have starved in post-war Germany had it not been for the Americans and the food they provided. It touched us deeply. We want always to retain that standing in the world, that trust that even our former enemies have felt for us. If our friends in Germany, especially, question our actions, it ought to give us pause and make us re-examine what we are doing.
Sep 23rd, 2003, 09:58 AM
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Thanks for asking the ? Rich. I was wondering the same thing myself. I am considering Austria and Prague next year. I'm not all that encouraged by the comments though. I'm a 3rd generation Austrian but I think most see the American first (as do I for that matter). Time will tell!
Sep 23rd, 2003, 10:23 AM
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As a boneheaded tourist in Salzburg, I absentmindedly left my wallet with a sizable amount of cash (both Euros and dollars), credit cards, etc. at a counter at a grocery store. When I discovered my error 30 minutes later, I ran back to the closed store through the exit. While I was trying to explain to the anxious security guard what happened in a mixture of bad German, English, and pantomime, the cashier saw me from across the store and returned my wallet intact. I was overjoyed and relieved. This pretty much sums up my feelings toward the Austrians and how they treat Americans.
They might not agree with our collective politics, but they will generally treat us with individual respect. Too bad the same cannot be said for many of us fellow Americans.
They might not agree with our collective politics, but they will generally treat us with individual respect. Too bad the same cannot be said for many of us fellow Americans.
Sep 23rd, 2003, 10:48 AM
#28
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I am so sorry to hear about the negative experiences people have had in Austria. We visited a couple of years ago and felt the people were rather friendly. Of course, this was pre-Iraq war. There was one big exception, partially attributable to my poor German and partially attributable to a different style of service in Austrian restaurant. I don't think that Americans should have to make a big point of distancing themselves from the "government" though. Whether we agree with its policies or not, we visit other countries to enjoy ourselves, visit friends, see the sights. I don't feel obligated to defend or discuss my political opinions with people I meet on holiday. There are lots of other topics on which to converse, and people do appreciate it when you give their language a try.
Sep 23rd, 2003, 12:22 PM
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Degas:
I read what Bird wrote and thought the following: Austrians and Europeans, in general, are able to separate what they think of a country's political leadership from the individual citizens from that country and treat tourists and foreigners with respect. The flip side of this coin is that Americans, in general, seem incapable of doing the same, hence all the personal jabs at French bathing habits, etc., just because of Chirac's Iraq policies.
Just my first thought when I read Bird's post. I am perfectly willing to be corrected by Bird if I misinterpreted what s/he posted.
aquaman
I read what Bird wrote and thought the following: Austrians and Europeans, in general, are able to separate what they think of a country's political leadership from the individual citizens from that country and treat tourists and foreigners with respect. The flip side of this coin is that Americans, in general, seem incapable of doing the same, hence all the personal jabs at French bathing habits, etc., just because of Chirac's Iraq policies.
Just my first thought when I read Bird's post. I am perfectly willing to be corrected by Bird if I misinterpreted what s/he posted.
aquaman
Sep 24th, 2003, 12:58 AM
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I read the posts here and must respond as an american living part of the year in Austria for the last six years.
Having austrian friends from many socio- economic levels, I have yet to find any " anti -american sentiment" 0r any experienced any problems due to my nationality.
I have found that people here have the ability to separate the person from a national policy and accept "you for you"
This does not just apply to americans but people in general,as Austria, I believe accepts more asylum seekers than anyone other country.
I agree with the above post of Aquaman.
I am constantly amazed by the American tourist complaining that they can not find an english language menu,diet cola, ice water on the table , or a discount store open to buy film at midnight.
I have found that when you treat individuals with the same respect and kindness that you would want, they will do the same.
Having austrian friends from many socio- economic levels, I have yet to find any " anti -american sentiment" 0r any experienced any problems due to my nationality.
I have found that people here have the ability to separate the person from a national policy and accept "you for you"
This does not just apply to americans but people in general,as Austria, I believe accepts more asylum seekers than anyone other country.
I agree with the above post of Aquaman.
I am constantly amazed by the American tourist complaining that they can not find an english language menu,diet cola, ice water on the table , or a discount store open to buy film at midnight.
I have found that when you treat individuals with the same respect and kindness that you would want, they will do the same.
Sep 24th, 2003, 06:26 AM
#33
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Aquaman - you're pretty much four-square with interpreting the intentions of my remarks. Degas - Sorry if my clumsy rhetoric clouded my meaning.
Once again I ignored my grandpa's advice on not discussing politics or religion with others.
Once again I ignored my grandpa's advice on not discussing politics or religion with others.
Oct 26th, 2003, 09:36 PM
#34
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Funny I should accidentally read this thread. I am headed for Europe early next year, and have to admit, I have had thoughts of how to apologize to the French, Germans, etc. who have been "demonized" in our conservative media. I honestly have thought of how to say I DO NOT support the actions of our government over the past several months, particularly in Iraq and as regards the United Nations.
I also agree that the anti-Europe sentiment in the US is much more noticeable than anything I have heard from France, Germany or Austria, though I am not there to hear the day-to-day. Here, I get disgusted by the foolish people who will probably never see outside their own hometowns in the United States who want to rant about the French and others.
I'd normally not comment on politics on what is clearly a travel site, but it is an obvious concern for many people on both sides of the "pond."
I also agree that the anti-Europe sentiment in the US is much more noticeable than anything I have heard from France, Germany or Austria, though I am not there to hear the day-to-day. Here, I get disgusted by the foolish people who will probably never see outside their own hometowns in the United States who want to rant about the French and others.
I'd normally not comment on politics on what is clearly a travel site, but it is an obvious concern for many people on both sides of the "pond."
Oct 27th, 2003, 09:09 AM
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AtlantaDaniel:
I don't think you should feel like you need to apologize for all Americans. If someone engages you in a conversation on the topic, feel free to kindly express your opinion. My experience has been that Europeans will respect you for who you are, not for the policies of our government in Washington.
I don't think you should feel like you need to apologize for all Americans. If someone engages you in a conversation on the topic, feel free to kindly express your opinion. My experience has been that Europeans will respect you for who you are, not for the policies of our government in Washington.
Oct 27th, 2003, 10:09 PM
#37
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Advice well-taken, aquaman. I guess I listen to too much "talk radio" trying to fight my way through Atlanta traffic. When they re-named "french fries" and started calling them "freedom fries," my paranoia about my fellow US countrymen took a nose dive. I just hope that the good citizens of Europe have had better access to non-biased news coverage and can accept that not ALL Americans voted for or support Bush in his actions. I'm not exactly a "Dixie Chick," but by damn, I do reserve the right to freedom of speech both here AND abroad if anyone asks. Bottom line is I just don't want to automatically offend anyone by my nation of birth given the current sad circumstances. (And no, I am not having fantasies of becoming the next ex-patriot darling of the French and Germans a la Josephine Baker, James Baldwin and others. I do think it matters, though. Just would like an honest dialogue should it come up...
Oct 28th, 2003, 07:25 AM
#38
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I think what is important is how you treat people as individuals. Even though I have been vocal on my feelings about the French government's lack of support for the US, if I had contact with someone from France who was visiting the US, I certainly wouldn't hold them personally responsible. I probably wouldn't even tell them how I felt about their government's actions unless they brought up the subject. Now, if they insulted me or my country directly, then that would be a different matter entirely.
As stated at the top of this forum, when I lived in Austria I did witness anti-American demonstrations but they were aimed primarily at the government and I never felt threatened as an individual.
However, this may not be true in all foreign countries.
As stated at the top of this forum, when I lived in Austria I did witness anti-American demonstrations but they were aimed primarily at the government and I never felt threatened as an individual.
However, this may not be true in all foreign countries.
Oct 29th, 2003, 10:01 AM
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We were in Vienna on election day (California governor race). The people there LOVE Arnold. His picture was on the front of every newspaper. We brought some Arnold stickers and pins with us. We ran out. Everyone wanted one. That was a happy day for Americans!
