anniversary trip - suggestions - italy and switzerland
Dec 27th, 2006, 06:32 PM
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anniversary trip - suggestions - italy and switzerland
We are planning a 2 week trip to northern Italy in September and I wanted any thoughts or suggestions on the itinerary I've listed below -
Day 1 - Fly into Milan - travel to Lake Como
Day 2- 4 Stay in Bellagio
Day 5 Take Bernina Express train from Lugano to St. Mortiz
Day 6 Stay in St. Moritz
Day 7 Take Glacier Express to Zermatt. Spend the night
Day 8-11 Travel to Portofino area for 3 nights
Day 12-14 Spend in Cinque Terre
Day 15 Fly out of Milan
Can we travel by train or do we need to rent a car? This is our rough plan right now - does it sound doable.
Thanks for any help
Day 1 - Fly into Milan - travel to Lake Como
Day 2- 4 Stay in Bellagio
Day 5 Take Bernina Express train from Lugano to St. Mortiz
Day 6 Stay in St. Moritz
Day 7 Take Glacier Express to Zermatt. Spend the night
Day 8-11 Travel to Portofino area for 3 nights
Day 12-14 Spend in Cinque Terre
Day 15 Fly out of Milan
Can we travel by train or do we need to rent a car? This is our rough plan right now - does it sound doable.
Thanks for any help
Dec 27th, 2006, 08:57 PM
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In order to take the Bernina Express from Lugano to San Moritz see ww.rhb.ch. They call it the Palm Express. It is a combination bus ride to Menaggio and Tirano and then the rail ride from Tirano to San Moritz (or vice versa).
Instead for your desired destinations, I would contemplate flying into Zurich, and out of Pisa. I would just use trains. I would go from Zurich to St. Moritz to spend the night, then take the Glacier Express to Zermatt (a long day on the train). This does miss the Bernina Express. From Zermatt I would train to Stresa on Lake Maggiore, substituting that lake for Lake Como. From Stresa I would then to to Portofino and the Cinque Terre. From the Cinque Terre it is closer to Pisa than back to Milan.
Personally, I would choose either the Bernina Express or the Glacier Express, but not both, as both are long transportation days. You can check the rail portions including the Italian portions of the trip on the Swiss national rail site, www.sbb.ch. which has an English language choice.
Instead for your desired destinations, I would contemplate flying into Zurich, and out of Pisa. I would just use trains. I would go from Zurich to St. Moritz to spend the night, then take the Glacier Express to Zermatt (a long day on the train). This does miss the Bernina Express. From Zermatt I would train to Stresa on Lake Maggiore, substituting that lake for Lake Como. From Stresa I would then to to Portofino and the Cinque Terre. From the Cinque Terre it is closer to Pisa than back to Milan.
Personally, I would choose either the Bernina Express or the Glacier Express, but not both, as both are long transportation days. You can check the rail portions including the Italian portions of the trip on the Swiss national rail site, www.sbb.ch. which has an English language choice.
Dec 27th, 2006, 09:36 PM
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I made a mistake above. The "Palm Express" is a bus which goes from St. Moritz to Lugano, and does not follow the route of the Bernina Express. It is possible to take the Bernina Express from St. Moritz to Tirano, and then take a bus to Lugano.
Dec 27th, 2006, 11:56 PM
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For your time in the CT area, I highly reccommend either Lerici (my hometown) or Portovenere (my favorite place in Italy!) as your base versus in the CT villages. They just have a bit more life to them after dark and their charm is endless.
Dec 28th, 2006, 12:21 AM
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Hi uh9611,
I like lovisa's route, but I would recommend a few changes and move in one direction only.
Fly into Zurich or Geneva, then take the train to Zermatt. Take the GE from Zermatt to St. Moritz. Take the BE from St. Moritz to Tirano, then a train on to Milan, and on to the Italian portion of your trip.
Have fun!
s
I like lovisa's route, but I would recommend a few changes and move in one direction only.
Fly into Zurich or Geneva, then take the train to Zermatt. Take the GE from Zermatt to St. Moritz. Take the BE from St. Moritz to Tirano, then a train on to Milan, and on to the Italian portion of your trip.
Have fun!
s
Dec 28th, 2006, 05:29 AM
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That is a nice dream but your travel logistics are not feasible. You are mistaking Lugano for Tirano---not even close. How do you get to Portofino from Zermatt--do you have a helicopter?
The train trip would be a bear and take all day. You really ned to check your details, but the dream is good.
The train trip would be a bear and take all day. You really ned to check your details, but the dream is good.
Dec 28th, 2006, 09:59 AM
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Right now this is how your travel days look in the middle of your trip:
Day 5 Go from Bellagio to Lugano (2hours?) Bernina Express bus/train combination depart Lugano 10:00 arrive St. Moritz 17:10 (5 hours 10 minutes from Lugano)
Day 7 Glacier Express depart St Moritz 9:02 arrive Zermatt 17:04 (8 hours)
Day 8 Zermatt to Portofino (I looked up connections for Sept. 12, 2007 for a point of reference) Depart Zermatt 9:44
arrive Brig, walk from Brig MGB station to Main station 7 minutes, take Eurocity Cisalpina Brig to Santa Margherita Ligure, arrive 16:32 (6:44 hours)
Elsewhere, on the Slow Travel website, Bob the Nagivator in his trip planning essay, recommends that you limit your travel time between destinations to 3 1/2 to 4 hours to which I agree. Three or so hours on a train is plenty. All of the above will be exhausting days without much time for anything but riding on transportation
Day 5 Go from Bellagio to Lugano (2hours?) Bernina Express bus/train combination depart Lugano 10:00 arrive St. Moritz 17:10 (5 hours 10 minutes from Lugano)
Day 7 Glacier Express depart St Moritz 9:02 arrive Zermatt 17:04 (8 hours)
Day 8 Zermatt to Portofino (I looked up connections for Sept. 12, 2007 for a point of reference) Depart Zermatt 9:44
arrive Brig, walk from Brig MGB station to Main station 7 minutes, take Eurocity Cisalpina Brig to Santa Margherita Ligure, arrive 16:32 (6:44 hours)
Elsewhere, on the Slow Travel website, Bob the Nagivator in his trip planning essay, recommends that you limit your travel time between destinations to 3 1/2 to 4 hours to which I agree. Three or so hours on a train is plenty. All of the above will be exhausting days without much time for anything but riding on transportation
Dec 28th, 2006, 10:30 AM
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Thanks for the helpful information. I am definitely rethinking some parts of the trip. Flying into Zurich would help and just doing one of the train trips. I don't know yet about getting from Zermatt to Santa Margarita because I don't have a helicopter. We could train through Milan but it is a lot of train travel. Thanks for your comments because they have helped me evaluate the trip
Dec 28th, 2006, 10:56 AM
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You could do the Bernina Express rail route easier if you went through Varenna rather than start in Lugano. You would not be able to take the special Bernina Express panorama cars unless you waited around a long time to make the connection, but just take the regular train which takes the same route.
Leaving from Varenna-Esino, you could take a train at 9:18 which arrives in Tirano at 10:45, then take a train from Tirano to St. Moritz at 11:40 which arrives at 14:23. There is also a later option which leaves Varenna at 13:19 and connects to St. Moritz. You could go from Bellagio to Varenna by ferry. However, there are many people who prefer Varenna to Bellagio anyway. It's a lot easier to get to Varenna. You can just take a train from Milano Centrale.
Leaving from Varenna-Esino, you could take a train at 9:18 which arrives in Tirano at 10:45, then take a train from Tirano to St. Moritz at 11:40 which arrives at 14:23. There is also a later option which leaves Varenna at 13:19 and connects to St. Moritz. You could go from Bellagio to Varenna by ferry. However, there are many people who prefer Varenna to Bellagio anyway. It's a lot easier to get to Varenna. You can just take a train from Milano Centrale.
Dec 28th, 2006, 12:01 PM
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How about considering the following revision to your plan which would eliminate Zermatt, but makes more sense logistically?
Day 1 - Fly to Zurich - train to Lucerne
train travel time 1 hour
Day 2 Lucerne (Luzern)
Day 3 Luzerne
Day 4 Train to St. Moritz - requires 2 changes at Thalwel & Chur - train travel time 4 1/2 hours
Day 5 St. Moritz
Day 6 Train via Bernina Pass to Varenna-Esino, changing at Tirano
train travel time 4 hours. Spend night at either Varenna or Bellagio
Days 7-10 Varenna/Bellagio
Day 10 Train Varenna-Esino to Santa Margherita Ligure-Portofino or Camogli
train travel time 4 hours with change at Milano Centrale
Days 11-13 Santa Margherita Ligure
Day 14 Wherever city your return plane leaves from. From Santa Margherita Ligure it is 2 hours to Milano Centrale or 2 hours to Pisa Centrale
Day 15 Plane home
I would not make separate stops for Portofino area and Cinque Terre. From Santa Margherita Ligure, for example, it is one hour by train to Vernazza. You can do C.T. without switching hotels from Santa Margherita Ligure.
I would plan on spending your final night in the city the plane departs from. It's too stressful to get there from far away.
A variation on the above is that you could pick up a rental car in either Lecco or Como, both on Lake Como (Avis & Hertz have pick-ups at those locations), and do the Italian portion by car, driving yourself to the airport at the end. But your locations on the Ligurian Coast don't need a car at all.
We really liked hotel Cenobio dei Doge in Camogli (train stop before Santa Margherita Ligure - Portofino) It has a wonderful romantic location overlooking the water and is an easy walk to the train station. It also has on-site parking
www.cenobio.it
Also, I would check what the weather is likely to be like in Switzerland in September. By the end of the month it may be getting rainy and cold.
Day 1 - Fly to Zurich - train to Lucerne
train travel time 1 hour
Day 2 Lucerne (Luzern)
Day 3 Luzerne
Day 4 Train to St. Moritz - requires 2 changes at Thalwel & Chur - train travel time 4 1/2 hours
Day 5 St. Moritz
Day 6 Train via Bernina Pass to Varenna-Esino, changing at Tirano
train travel time 4 hours. Spend night at either Varenna or Bellagio
Days 7-10 Varenna/Bellagio
Day 10 Train Varenna-Esino to Santa Margherita Ligure-Portofino or Camogli
train travel time 4 hours with change at Milano Centrale
Days 11-13 Santa Margherita Ligure
Day 14 Wherever city your return plane leaves from. From Santa Margherita Ligure it is 2 hours to Milano Centrale or 2 hours to Pisa Centrale
Day 15 Plane home
I would not make separate stops for Portofino area and Cinque Terre. From Santa Margherita Ligure, for example, it is one hour by train to Vernazza. You can do C.T. without switching hotels from Santa Margherita Ligure.
I would plan on spending your final night in the city the plane departs from. It's too stressful to get there from far away.
A variation on the above is that you could pick up a rental car in either Lecco or Como, both on Lake Como (Avis & Hertz have pick-ups at those locations), and do the Italian portion by car, driving yourself to the airport at the end. But your locations on the Ligurian Coast don't need a car at all.
We really liked hotel Cenobio dei Doge in Camogli (train stop before Santa Margherita Ligure - Portofino) It has a wonderful romantic location overlooking the water and is an easy walk to the train station. It also has on-site parking
www.cenobio.it
Also, I would check what the weather is likely to be like in Switzerland in September. By the end of the month it may be getting rainy and cold.
Dec 28th, 2006, 09:17 PM
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Thank you Lovisa for the above iinerary. It looks really good and I think we may go with that plan. We are going the beginning of September so hopefully the rains won't have set in. Thanks for all the help.
