I have put together the following itinerary (August) and now I'm concerned that we may not be including any up close and personal Alps time! The more I read up on Switzerland I wish we could include the Berina Express, but I know that would be too much of a stretch for this trip.

My husband and I will be traveling with our boys (6 & 8) and will have already traveled by rail from Venice into Montreux for the beginning of our time in Switzerland.

My main question: on day 3 instead of continuing on the golden pass line through Interlaken to Luzern for the night, should we divert to the Jungfrau region and overnight there(possibly in Wengen)? I estimate we would be coming through Interlaken around 4:30pm. Then the next day,(day 4) early a.m. up to Jungfrau then return through Interlaken and continue on golden pass to Luzern. I think the earliest we could expect to be back in Luzern is early evening.

If we made this change, we would cut our nights in Luzern from 3 to 2, and would cut out the Mt. Pilatus trip entirely - having our 1 full day in Luzern be a boat ride and possibly a museum.

I would appreciate any feedback on this change. Is Jungfrau too much to fit in that limited time (especially with August crowds)? I understand it's not worth the time/$ if the weather is bad. However, if that's the case I guess we could just go straight to Luzern (from Wengen) in the morning and arrive early enough in the afternoon to somewhat keep on our original schedule, including Pilatus the next day. If that happened, would the trip just to Wengen have been worth it?

Thanks for any advice. Although I promised myself I would not be one of those people who wildly over-scheduled their trip, that's clearly what I have become! It's just too easy to do in such a beautiful country.


Current itinerary:

Day 1 arrive Montreux from Venice (most likely 8 or 9pm)

Day 2 Chocolate Train - full day(overnight in Montreux)

Day 3 Chateau Chillon in the a.m.
Golden Pass to Luzern leave 1:45pm
arrive 8pm (overnight in Luzern)

Day 4 explore Luzern (Transport Museum/Glacier Garden)
(overnight in Luzern)

Day 5 Mt. Pilatus
(overnight in Luzern)

Day 6 train to Zurich (8am) for 11am flight

Tough call. I think a night in Wengen would be a nice addition to your trip, in any case. But it's hard to plan a stop built around going up the Jungfrau on any particular day---it may or may not be clear. I nAugust, particularly on a clear day, the crowds can be fierce and discouraging. But if you get an earl ystart from Wengen, you will have a great advantage, and may be there and gon before the crowds arrive.

Some will say the Jungfrau is over-hyped; I won't weigh in on that. Been there twice. once on a clear day and once in a blizzard, which was actually the preferred visit. I think kids the ages of your would particularly enjoy the ice palace area, and the snow play opportunities outside. These are not weather-dependent.

There are other high vantage points in the Alps; this in one, and Mt. Pilatus is another (although not quite as spectacular in scope). I guess I would vote for the Wengen diversion, with the possibility of going up the JUngfrau it it is clear, or otherwise just enjoying the ambiance of a car-free Swiss village perched on the side of a mountain.

Your first 3 days you're spending 8, 8, and 6 hours on a train. I would cut out so much train travel, especially given the ages of your kids. I know when my kids were that age they'd rather stay in one place and run around. I think less is more in this case, and you should minimize your transit time, maybe not go so far as Montreux. How about stopping in Lugano, and then continuing to Luzern? Make your train days fewer and shorter.

I'm sitting here trying to remember how long it took us to go through Chillon the last time we were in Montreux.

You are going to want to give yourself enough time to get there from the hotel, do the visit, and then get to the train station to take the Golden Pass.

I think stopping off in Interlaken/environs is a good idea buut also agree with Enzian as to the viewing/weather issue.

The trip up to Rochers de Naye from Montreux is something that kids often enjoy but if the weather doesn't cooperate it isn't nearly as spectacular and since you've decided to devoyte an entire day to the Chocolate Train excursion that is eliminated anyway.

I agree, hard decisions but you annot go far wrong with any of these or with Luzern.

Hi kikianne,

I would definitely add time in the Alps -- they are really worth the trouble. I really really prefer seeing/standing on the Alps over sitting on a train.

For that reason, I suggest you don't use the Golden Pass route, which is pretty long, and use the direct train routing from Montreux to Wengen via Lausanne & Bern. You'll save an hour of train-sitting, and you'll spend that hour actually ON the mountain.

s

Do not be seduced by names like "chocolate train". Eat the chocolate, do not ride it.

Eating chocolate in Switzerland is absolutely necessary. It will give you and your family lots of energy to hike. Yes, even for 6 and 8 year olds, there are trails (like the one between Mannlichen and Kleine Scheidegg) that are even paved part of the way, and offer glorious views. Your boys will also enjoy riding up the lift that takes you to Mannlichen from Wengen, which in turn is accessible by mountain train from Lauterbrunnen, near Interlaken. Yes, I would recommend this over Mount Pilatus.

Venice to Spiez is 7 hours by train, if you take the one leaving 10:57 (arrives Spiez 17:50, with a change roughly halfway at Milan.) Personally, I'd break the trip at Stresa, a resort town on Lake Maggiore in Italy (train arrives Stresa 15:26) as it reduces that day's journey to 4.5 hours. The next day, I'd continue more or less straight to Wengen.

I say, 'more or less' since my rail guide points out that it is but a 15 minute walk downhill from the Spiez rail station to a castle overlooking Lake Thun. I know nothing about this castle, but I can vouch for Lake Thun - it's gorgeous. Here is a link to somebody's vacation pix of this castle:

http://tinyurl.com/2cgo4a

Anyway, the train details would be:

example: Leave Stresa 09:27
Change at Brig, continue to Spiez.

Either continue on very next train to Interlaken Ost, or have a picnic next to the castle and the lake, and grab the next one.

Either way, change at Interlaken Ost, and proceed to Lauterbrunnen. If you don't want to base in Lauterbrunnen, continue to Wengen, arriving 14:09 or 15:44, depending on your plans. Journey time around 4 3/4 hours plus.

Whatever, once you're in the Lauterbrunnen Valley region, you're up close and personal with the alps, and lots to do (e.g., handy to Ballenberg open air folk museum, in event of cloudy weather.)

Enjoy Switzerland.

With the greatest of respect for everyone on this thread and their likes and not-so-likes in Switzerland I would NOT forego the Chillon experience if your children are interested in that sort of thing.

Be aware, however, that Chillon is not filled with room afetr room of fabulous furniture and the like.

I agree that there is too much time spent on trains. We were among those who felt the Jungfrau trip was overrated. Our favorite part was the ice palace. However, a stay in Wengen would be great, and you could decide on the spur of the moment whether or not to go to the Jungfrau, but definitely do the Mannlichein-kleine Scheidegg hike. With limited time in that region, I would vote for that as your main activitiy!

In defense of Pilatus, did you know that there is a ropes course and an alpine slide there?

definitely get out on the lake in Lucerne. You could even get off at one of the villages and swim. I know that in Vitznau, for example, you can swim just near where the boat lands. there is a small public park. No facilities, but you can always change in the restroom at the boat landing. I guarantee it will be one of the prettiest swims you will ever have! When I went into the lake, I just started laughing because I couldn't believe I was swimming in such an unbelievable setting.

Thank you all for the great replys and suggestions! I know I've planned very heavy on the train travel and I appreciate the alternate route suggestions. My kids travel well and have grown up taking several 5-7 hour car trips a year. (what a cruel mother!)

Lovisa: you point out that our 1st 3 days are especially train heavy. I was hoping (and assuming) that although the chocolate train is a full day excursion, it would not feel like all day on a train again. The schedule with the stops in Gruyeres and Broc seems to break up the travel. (A total of 3 1/2 hours by my math). I've also heard these visits can be done on our own schedule, via regular rail. Maybe that is something we should look into. Anyone done that?

Thank you Enzian, SwanDav and Sue for the Jungfrau/Wengen advice. My husband would really like to make that visit and ultimately it would break up the long golden pass trip from Montreux to Luzern I currently have planned. Thanks to for the hike suggestion - emphasis on easy is what we need, so that sounds good. If we do the Wengen diversion I'll be looking into the Baren Hotel and Familienhotel Edelweiss. Any other suggestions that could accommodate 4 people for under $200 USD?

Dukey: I really want to keep the Chillon visit in our itinerary too! It's apparently 1 mile from our hotel, Suisse Majestic. It opens at 9am and (per my original itineray at least)I thought we could get there by 10am spend 2+ hours there and be back to the train station for the 1:45 golden pass panoramic train. Swandav: thanks for the suggestion on the quicker route to Interlaken, how does the scenery compare to the Golden Pass? I have heard that the stretch between Montreux and Interlaken is the best so I might hesitate to give that up to save an hour.

Skatedancer: thanks for your input on Pilatus. I had been very excited about that trip until my husband threw out the Jungfrau option. I know we can't do both. I had seen the info. on the alpine slide - my kids would love that!

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Hi again,

The scenery on the fast route from Montreux to Wengen is flat-ish, certainly not as nice as the Golden Pass route.

But I repeat: I would much, MUCH rather be ON the mountains than watching them whisk by my train window. If you had a lot of time, that would be another thing. But with so little time, and to maximize your few hours in the Alps, get your FEET on them.

s

We haven't stayed in Wengen (we stay across the way in Mürren for hiking), but here is a good list of the Wengen hotels, with links to websites:

http://www.wengen.com/hotels.html

You can easily incorporate that wonderful Kleine Scheidegg-Mannlichen hike (almost a level walk, really) into your Jungfrau day. I'd suggest going straight up to the Jungfraujoch by train first, to get there as early as possible and avoid (some) of the crowds. Carry warm jackets and gloves so you can spend time in the ice palace, and so the kids can enjoy some snow play outside. There is usually a pretty international group of kids sliding on platters and having a great time. Carry some snacks so you don't have to buy food up there; you can get lunch back at Kleine Scheidegg (there are several choices, as I recall). Then, instead of boarding the train for the ride down to Wengen, follow the trail along the ridgetop out to Mannlichen, and you can ride a gondola down to Wengen from there. Your kids (and you) will love this experience.

Before I give any of my opinions I should state from the outset that I don’t like organized tours (i.e., the chocolate train) and I think Lucerne is vastly overrated. Having said that, yes, IMO you are forgetting the Alps. IMO to spend 3 nights or even 2 nights in Lucerne while giving only a few hours to the Jungfrau is really a shame. I would actually spend the 2-3 nights in the Jungfrau, and spend a half day in Lucerne on your way back to Zurich.

I have been to Pilatus and IMO it does not compare to the Jungfrau valley. The Jungfrau valley is more than just the train trip up to the top of the actual Jungfrau, it is the gorgeous valley with the waterfalls, the three mountains, the farm fields below and the cow fields further up filled with wildflowers, the chalets clinging to the hillsides, the little towns, and most of all the vistas you get from various parts of the valley both high and low, including some sublime views from the ferries on Lakes Thun or Brienz. This cannot be seen or appreciated in a 6 hour trip from Interlaken. Much as I encourage people on this board to try to see other parts of the Swiss mountains like the Engadine which are visited by few Americans, the Jungfrau is really beautiful and IMO a much better use of time on a trip to Switzerland than staying in an ubran place like Lucerne. As mentioned above, if you stay in Wengen or another town (Wengen gets my vote), you can do the wonderful, and very easy walk from Maennlichen to Kleine Schiedig (and you get to take cable cars to get up to the start of the walk, which is also fun). Best of all, your kids will actually get to see cows and sheep, take some great nature walks, and wake up and go to sleep to the sound of cow bells, rather than spending time in a city environment like Lucerne with just a few hours spent going up Pilatus.

As others have mentioned above, if during the few hours you have scheduled for the Jungfrau trip, you get bad weather, you are out of luck. Clouds and bad weather happen more often in Switzerland than you want to know (it’s one of their little secrets along with the numbered bank accounts). The longer you stay, the better chance you have of having some clear weather on one of the days.

I guess I should mention that lovely as the Swiss Alps are, the Italian Alps are only 2-3 hours from Venice, and are very stunning also. You might want to consider going to a place like Bolzano or Cortina for 2 nights which would be a very easy ride, and then going on to Montreux from there. Also, the Lake Geneva area is so gorgeous. I did not realize you were spending so little time in this area, you really won’t get a chance to see it with 1.5 days there, esp if you do the chocolate train. You might consider skipping western Switzerland and spending 2-3 days there with a day in Gruyere, and a day exploring the vineyards and the area along the lake, including some ferries rides (one of the pleasures of Switzerland) You can then train to Zurich (about 2.5 hours from Montruex) the night before your flight and overnight in Zurich. If you can get a flight home of out of Geneva, so much the better. If you feel you need an Alp fix, you head up to Chateau D’ouex which is only an hour by train and makes a nice day trip IMO; its on the Golden Pass route.

As for the chocolate train, I really would not do this. I have not taken this tour, so you might want to confirm the details with someone who has, but IMO it would be quite canned. First of all, from what I understand, the trip to the chocolate factory involves a FILM of chocolate making, not a tour of the factory (hygiene issues), and then a stop at the Nestle chocolate shop where you can buy chocolate (surprise!). There is much better chocolate in Switzerland to begin with (Lindt, Sprungli and Teuscher to name just three; really no self-respecting Swiss I know eats Nestle, or at least not in public....). You then go to Gruyères, which is indeed a lovely, tiny village with its own castle. My fear is that you won’t get to spend any time exploring the town or the little castle and will be herded through it and off to some big lunch place. (Hopefully the tour includes at least some time in the village and not just at the cheese factory.) The best part of this trip IMO sounds like the antique railroad cars, but as you will have been on a train for 6 hours the day before, IMO, there is no reason to take this trip simply for the train. Take the lovely little train up the Lavaux vineyards instead, take a look at http://www.lavaux.ch/ for info on this area (the website is in French and German only but if you go to http://www.lavaux.ch/fr/default.htm there is a map you can understand), or to www.lake-geneva-region.ch for info on the region generally.

You could easily get to Gruyères on your own in about an hour from Montreux by train. It makes a great half day trip on its own, IMO. Across from the train station there is a cheese “diary” where you can see cheese making, so you could do this first if you really feel the need to see it, but there won’t be any cows in sight. (You may have a better chance wandering around the fields in Wengen or other parts of the Jungfrau, or walking in the Gruyeres area. Take a look at http://www.lamaisondugruyere.ch/, click on “cheese dairy” (I have a feeling that this is where the tour goes anyway...). You can then go up to the old village of Gruyeres to see the old town by taking a bus for less than 5 minutes or walking (its a bit of an uphill climb). There are several nice places for lunch right along the one main street in the old village.

For train schedules to rail.ch. To get to the village, you want “Gruyères ville”; this give give you the scheudle for train and then the bus. For the cheese dairy above, you want just “Gruyères” which is the train station at the bottom of the hill. (This is actually in the town of Pringy, sometimes also referred to as Pringy-Gruyères.)

Hi again kikianne.

I arrived at this thread this morning all a-fired to counsel you about the weather, and I see Cimbrone has beaten me to the draw. But Cimbrone's point is so important, it is worth expanding on.

Yes, weather is a part of why I suggested the alternate route. With so short a visit, I really feel that the benefits to consolidating your time outweigh the disadvantages. It is not so much that Schloss Spiez exceeds Schloss Chillon, it likely doesn't. However, the former is directly on a route from northern Italy to Lake Thun near the Berner Oberland (e.g. Jungfrau, etc.) As for the rail route through, here is what my rail guide (written by people who have spent hundreds of hours on European trains) has to say about the section between Brig and Spiez (which you would not take if you went westward to Montreux):

"In the 52 miles between Brig and Thun, the train goes through 37 tunnels, including the 10 mile Lotschberg, and crosses the top of 25 bridges and viaducts. The 866-foot long Kander viaduct is 92 feet high. Upon emerging from the Lotschberg Tunnel, there is such beautiful farm and mountain scenery around tiny Kandersteg and Fruitigen that you want to get off the train and spend the rest of your life there. It is only a 15 minute downhill walk from the Spiez rail station to the castle overlooking Lake Thun, the most beautiful lake scene on this planet. If the view of Lake thun and the mountains reflected on its surface does not thrill you, pack up and go home because you will not find any landscape more beautiful in this world. From here, you can see the peaks of Jungfrau, Eiger, Monch, and Finsteraarhorn."

All that of course applies mainly if you have a clear day. Mountains are great weather makers, when warm moist air hits them, guess what happens. But at least if the worst happens, it's not like you went out of your way to do it.

I think your desire to see traditional industries is great. It is just that if you want to see cheese-making for example, there are other places besides Gruyeres that might be more conveniently clustered near other things you want to see. At the Ballenberg open air museum - (20 minute train skirting Lake Brienz from Interlaken to Brienz, regular short bus service Brienz to Ballenberg) they make 'Mutschli' cheese. Okay, no chocolate, but also, apparently, sausage-making and bread, the latter in an outdoor wood-burning oven. Remember, this is an outdoor museum, not a factory - it will have been designed to be toured as its principal reason for existence.

In contrast to chocolate factories. That said, in fairness to cailler, I hear that they have updated their chocolate tour and have installed live cameras for viewers to observe the chocolate-making. This has to be an improvement over a mere video. But cimbrone is right, one would still be watching most of the action through a camera lens.

The main point is that if you have at least 2 days in the Lauterbrunnen region, you have options. It's cloudy? Hop to Ballenberg, or tour the valley waterfalls, and pray for sun the next day. If it's sunny: run, do not walk, to catch the views and hike while you can. I cannot stress how right swanda is - the one time I took the train all the way to Jungfrau, I sat with my nose to the glass, longing to get out and walk.

Meanwhile if all else fails, you still have Pilatus to fall back on. But best of all, if it's cloudy on your day in Lucerne, you will at least have had a previous chance to see high-level views.

Bon voyage, enjoy Switzerland.

I just did the train ride from interlaken to brig, and from brig to Montreaux. Both will give you a nice taste of the Alps, although you might not feel the entire "magic" unless you venture up to the Jungfrau.

I'm going to endorse the weather point. If you wake up in Wengen, and it is heavy clouds or drizzle, I'd have a nice breakfast and head to Luzern. If, however, it is sunny or there looks like the clouds are partially breaking, do whatever it takes to get into the Alps. The Jungfrau is magical, but I also love the hikes up and around Murren or Klein Schediegg (while you might not be standing on the Jungfrau, you see it in all of its beauty).

To me, 2 nights in Luzern by all means sounds like enough. I know that my kids would swap an day in the city for a day in the Alps in a heartbeat.

Wow - so much to consider, (and reconsider!) Thank you all for your insights. I am looking into all the suggestions and am slowly trying to scale back.

Circerone: I'm off the Chocolate Train kick. I think you're right about just doing Gruyeres on our own schedule. And I'll take Sue's advice to eat the chocolate, not ride it! With just that change I can free up our 1 full day In Montreux and instead visit Chillon and Gruyeres. Then the next day (without Chillon) we could leave earlier for Wengen -possibly leaving at 9:50am which would then put us in Wengen at 1:30pm. We'd then have some time to explore the village. Maybe the Falls? (I haven't looked into their location or the time required yet).

Thank you again for the Scheidegg-Mannlichen hike suggestion. I love that idea and think it would work well with our descent from Jungfrau! I'm sold on going to Wengen, but I must say I'm not thrilled with the idea of packing winter clothes for one excursion (Jungfrau). I've been reading a current thread on this specifically and the advice seems to vary quite a bit. I guess we'll go with our best guess...and what we can reasonably pack. If the weather is bad up top is it typically bad in Wengen too?

Is Luzern really that over-rated? I'm having a hard time giving up the 2 nights I now have left there. I guess there's never enough time and I've got some decisions to make!

P.S. to Sue: thank you for your detailed suggestion to bypass Montreux altogether. I am taking some time after this post to look into your suggested route. My head is really going to be spinning if I get sold on that change -but that's why I'm asking for help!

Thanks again to all.

If you take the Venice-Thun train, you will have to change once or twice, and the trip will be 45 minutes to an hour longer than going Venice-Montreux. Up to you whether you think this is worth it. However, I don’t think you have to skip Montruex, as if you spend the 2-3 days in the Wengen area, you can see ALL this, like Lake Thun, the castle at Spiez (which is nice but not as interesting at Chillon IMO). The Kandersteg valley is lovely, but the Gstaad valley is just as or even more lovely (and you would pass through that on the Goldenpass...) really you will not be disappointed for scenery in Switzerland, it’s a matter of making some choices and then relaxing about it. However, it is this whole Jungfrau area that I think is much more interesting and lovely in August than Lucerne would be. I would not skip Montreux however, as I just love that area of Switzerland (not sure I would stay in Montreux, I prefer Vevey, but that is another story). I would certainly skip Lucerne in favour of the Lake Geneva area.

The waterfalls are not in Wengen, the are at the bottom of the valley in Lauterbrunnen, but you can easily go down to Lauterbrunnen and walk to the falls. (It’s a 15 minute train ride down the mountainside to Lauterbrunnen, a very fun ride.) You might want to get some guidebooks if you don’t already have them, maps are very helpful to see where the various places are. This is why you need a few days in the area, to be able to do all this, sometimes the train trip up the Jungfrau may be the last thing you will do if its cloudy up top, you can still do a lot of stuff in Wengen and down in the valley. You can store luggage in most every train station in Switzerland, so if you want to stop in Thun for the afternoon before you go to Lucerne, you can do that. You could even stay 2 nights in Wengen, then go down to Thun the last night and get a hotel there, spend the morning on the lakes, head into the Lucerne in the late afternoon (it’s only 1.5 hours), stay for dinner, head back lake to Thun, and then get from Thun to Zurich airport for your flight very easily, as Thun is only 1.5 hours from Zurich airport(versus just over an hour from Lucerne to Zurich). Thun is a major rail hub.

In August, if you take the train up to the top of the Jungfrau, there will still be snow up there and it will be quite cold. However, you are not up there very long so IMO you don’t need winter jackets. If you have some layers like long sleeve t-shirts, a cotton sweater, and a windbreaker, you would be fine. I would pack gloves and a hat for everyone, as these take up very little room and do a lot to keep in the heat. The layers are good for the mountain as the weather can change very quickly from warm to cool. Down in Wengen in lower elevations it can be cool, but you won’t have freezing weather. Good waterproof shoes are helpful, but sneakers are fine if you don’t want to pack boots, they can just get wet (up to you whether you want to listen to your kids complain). Bring a change of socks with you on walks, that should help if the sneakers get wet.

Also---when you arrive at the Jungfraujoch, you are in a building---a very large one. Some people probably never go outside the building, or at least never go out on the snow. There are huge windows and balconies for the views.

Of course the children will want to go out and play in the snow, and see the ice palace. But my point about the building is there there is a warm dry place when you want it. If necessary, you could carry a spare pair of shoes for the boys so they have dry ones to change into after playing out in the snow.

Poor kikianne, so many decisions to make! That's the joy - and the agony - of planning, isn't it? The good news: there's no one right way to do things. The bad news: there's no one right way to.....

Reading the last two posts, I am reminded of the British couple with 3 small boys whom we ran into at least twice during our trip to Switzerland. They did the hiking trails, but they also did the full Jungfrau trip, and the boys enjoyed it immensely.

Which reminds me: my suggestion to alter your route isn't based so much on an intimate and extensive knowledge of Switzerland, since I really can't claim to have this. I have had, as an aunt blessed with 6 nephews (now all grown up, alas) the opportunity to query young boys and their friends at length as to their travel preferences. In my case, I made two observations:

1. When the kids are happy, the adults are happy. The converse can't always be guaranteed.

2. Fully 100 per cent of seven-year-old boys surveyed rated historical sites highly as places to visit. However, their enthusiasm tended to be inversely proportional to the distance required to travel to see said sites. My nephews, when at the age of your sons, would have said about a castle: suit of armour, check; neat cauldron over kitchen hearth, check; close enough at hand that we can get out of the car/train and see it NOW - check check CHECK! (Michelin star ratings be dammned....)

On the other hand, it's still your trip too. I think we your advisors aren't steering you wrong to pick EITHER Montreux or Lucerne, since this will free up more of your limited time for Wengen/Lauterbrunnen area. I'd lean toward Lucerne, simply for practical reasons - it's closer to Zurich from which you are flying out. If you were flying out of Geneva, I'd probably go the other way.

So, you have at least two possible itineraries, e.g. A: straight from Venice to Montreux - 2n; Wengen area - 3 n; Zurich - 1 n.

Itinerary B: Break trip from Venice at Stresa - 1 n; via Spiez to Wengen area for 3 n; and either: Lucerne - 2 n, and up early at crack of dawn to get to Zurich airport OR: Lucerne, 1 n; last full day leave bags with Lucerne hotel, then head for Zurich airport hotel for last night.

Shut your eyes tight, click your heels, turn around three times, and pick. You really won't go wrong either way.

Thanks again to all for the helpful suggestions for maximizing our enjoyment in Switzerland (while minimizing our travel time!)

I appreciate the clothing responses for Jungfrau too. My boys love the snow, but we've actually had more than our share of it in rainy Seattle this year. It sounds like I won't need to bundle them to the hilt unless we plan on extended snow play.

Sue you're right I've got myself some decisions to make, or a lottery to be won. Wish me luck!

Bookmarking...this thread has some good suggestions and We'll be in Switzerland this July with our 2 kids as well!