wandergirlCO

I will be traveling with 2 friends to Greece in October. We will have a car and have 4 days to explore the Peloponnese before driving to Delphi then back to Athens. I would very much appreciate some help with planning our time there.

We enjoy: scenic drives, time by the sea and historical ancient sites. We like a reasonably busy schedule but not rushed. We do like some time to chill out in a beautiful place for an hour or so most days.

I, of course, want to see everything but realize we can't see it all. Here is a very tentative plan that is likely too ambitious for our time. I would really appreciate some reality checks and some suggestions of where to cut back if needed.

Day 1: Drive from Athens airport (am flight from Santorini) to someplace near the Caves of Diros. What would be reasonable to see on the way- Ancient Corinth, Nemea and/or Mystras? Any suggestions of where to stay near the Caves, preferably by the sea?

Day 2: See the caves in am (open about 10am I think) then drive to Monomevasia and spend most of the afternoon there. Then head to Nafplio. If we do not see Mystras on the way south I was thinking we could maybe stay somewhere nearby and see it on the morning of day 3.

Day 3: See Mystras (if not seen day 1) then drive to Nafplion. Maybe see Ancient Nemea, Mycenae, and Epidarous on the way.

Day 4: Around Nafplio- maybe a 1/2 day boat trip from Nafplio if available. (2 of us really really like to be out on the water)

We will be driving to Delphi the next day.

I am open to any and all suggestions.
If we need to cut something out (likely) what would you skip? FYI- we have traveled to Italy several times so have seen wonderful Byzantine architecture and Roman ruins. We would be more interested in sites that are unique to Greece. (the Caves of Diro look especially interesting)

Any suggestions for routing other than the major highways and interesting smaller villages to stay in?

OR should we just go to Nafplio then add Meteroa from Delphi?

Thanks so much in advance. I really appreciate any input you have.

mariha2912

Are you feeling comfortable to drive in the dark?
http://www.timeanddate.com/sun/greec...h=10&year=2015

stanbr

You are really planning too much. There is so much to do and see in this area that you simply have to stop in unexpected places. On the day we drove from Nafplio to Monemvassa we averaged 23 kilometers an hour. It takes way more time than one can imagine to drive around the Peloponnese.

Here is what I would suggest. Pick up your car and drive to Corinth and visit Ancient Corinth then ancient Nemia and finish the day in Nafplio. You can easily spend a couple of days in Nafplio itself with its lovely old town and fortresses.
You can also visit the classic sites of Mycenae and Epidavros and perhaps Ancient Tiyrns using Nafplio as a base.
If you still have time then do a long day trip to Mystras. Mystras itself takes a minimum of 4 hours to visit.

As you are driving to Delphi you might do the Corinth and Nemia stop on the way to Delphi if you go through Patras.
Here are images
Nafplio and Peloponnese http://www.flickr.com/photos/stanbr5...7632094108982/

wandergirlCO

Thanks so much for your responses.
Yes we are comfortable driving in the dark
I knew we were trying to do too much but am trying to accommodate everyone's interests.

Would the following still be too much? Keep in mind we enjoy car journeys if scenic.
Day 1: Drive directly down to the Caves (which is high on everyone's list). It is 4 hrs per google map. See caves in late afternoon. Stay nearby in a nice village by the sea. I have seen mention of Kalamata, Aeropolis, Guythion as interesting places to stay.
Day 2: Skip Monemavasia, drive to Mystras getting there around noon. Spend afternoon there then drive to Nafplio (probably arriving late which would be OK for 1 day)
Days 3/4: Around Nafplio- see town, some of the ancient site, maybe do a half day boat trip.
Day 5: To Delphi- see Corinth, maybe Nemea enroute (google says 4 1/2 hrs via Corinth, Patras)
Day 6: Delphi in am, drive to Athens arriving in the evening
Day 7-9 Athens

We will be in Santorini for 3 days prior to Day 1.

wandergirlCO

Thanks everyone. I now have a change in plans as apparently the high tides have limited what one can see in the caves. I also had some further discussions with my travel companions and we have agreed that we all want to see Mystras but feel neutral about Monamvasia.

So I am reworking our routing to include just Nafplio and Mystras.

Here are my very tentative thoughts:

-- Nafplio 1st for 2 days

-- Then Mystras and perhaps stay somewhere on the western (or even eastern) coastline, maybe around Kalamata. Suggestions would be very much welcomed.

-- Then drive north through Patras to Delphi or would you suggest any other routes. Are there any particularly scenic roads in that area?

Sorry for all the questions. We had been planning to go to Naxos from Santorini and only see Nafplio, Delphi, and Athens on the mainland. When we reviewed our initial plans we realized we would have to spend over 8 hours on ferries and would only have 1 day on Naxos. So now we are flying to Athens from Santorini freeing up 2 days on the mainland hence the last minute planning.

clausar

wandergirlCO,

Why do you think that the Diros Caves will not be fully accessible due to high tide ?
There is no remarkable high tide in the Mediterranean, and having visited the caves in a January, during a week of heavy rainfalls, I can only confirm that it was fully accessible.

I am not sure why you decided not to include Monemvasia, but for me this is one of the nicest spots of the Peloponnese, and ideal for an overnight, especially when you will be in the area .

From South Peloponnese, you would have to drive along the west coast via Kalamata-Pyrgos - Patras -Rio bridge-Galaxidi-Itea to get to Delphi, which will be a quite long drive. You will also pass through very historic areas, with unfortunately no time to see anything, ( ancient Messini, Olympia etc)

wandergirlCO

Thanks again everyone.
Clausar- I had posted also on trip advisor to get a variety of opinion. A local expert for the Peloponnese posted that the access to them is limited right now to just 200m as the water table is very high due to heavy rains last winter (I remembered wrongly it was high tides). Have you been there recently and have different knowledge? If so, then we would go back to original plan except for Monamvasia. The Caves, Monmvasia, and Mystras just seemed too much for the time we have.

Thanks for the route suggestion, that is very helpful. I am playing around now with some other plans but need a reality check on driving times and time needed to see sights. Here is my current working plan.
Any comments on the following:
Day 1: Airport to Mystras, see Mystras
Day 2: Coastal route through Geraki, Kosmos, Leonidio to Nafplio (? realistic drive time), maybe see Mycenae and Epidavro on way
Days 3: In Nafplio area- see town, maybe boat ride
Day 4: Take mountain route through Stemonitsa, Dimitsana to Olympia. Overnight here. Any specific place that you would recommend
Day 5: Olympia to Delphi

stanbr

Those of us who are experienced in driving in Greece are going to say that you are going to spend virtually all of your holiday in the car as you are trying to do too much. Driving distances seem fairly short until one realizes that Greece is mountainous and full of places where you just have to stop for a quick look.
For instance we were unable to complete your coastal route in a day as it was full of high mountains and switchback roads. We ended up in a fishing village at dark looking for a pension.

Having said that a couple of years ago there was a guy and his wife that proposed a holiday with lots of driving and virtually no time at the sites. We all suggested they re consider and later on he reported that everything went fine and they had a great time. All that to say you can do anything you want to do. The caveat is you will have to be willing to put in long hours in the car, you ignore everything you drive past and you are prepared for very short visits at your selected destinations.

If you decide to include Olympia here are images of our trip last year.
Olympia Delfi Meteora https://www.flickr.com/photos/stanbr...7645469717811/

wandergirlCO

Stanbr-
That is exactly the information I need. Right now I only have google map driving times which sound doable. However, I know from past experience that their times and the reality can be quite different. I am also very familiar with the fact that driving on windy mountainous roads can be unpredictable (I live in Colorado)

What would you suggest as alternatives? Just stick to the more direct routes between Mystras, Nafplio, and Delphi which are our 2 major objectives?

We do not mind car trips if the scenery is beautiful. We enjoy the smaller out of the way places, often more than the major sights. That said, we don't want to spend all our time in the car.

clausar

Calculate about 4 hours for the Airport - Mystras leg.
If you don't want to overnight in Monemvasia, the best option near Diros Caves is Gythio or Areopolis.

I phoned the Diros Caves to ask about accessibility, but it was closed, I might try to call them tomorrow morning again.
A friend of mine who is a licensed tour guide and visits the caves often, told me that the cave is normally accessible, and attract many visitors as always.

If you want to take thye coastal road from the south to Nafplio, calculate about 3,5 - 4 hours again and about the same from Nafplio to Olympia.

The coastal route to Nafplio, and the drive to Olympia are scenic, so is the coastal road between Nafpaktos and Delphi.

stanbr

Personally I would concentrate on Nafplio as your base and do day trips from there including Mystras. Then head north to Delphi. Plan to arrive late afternoon when the tour buses are leaving and the Museum will be fairly empty. Tour the museum and get a feel for what has been discovered. Enjoy the village and its wonderful views down to the Gulf of Corinth and next morning arrive at opening and have the site pretty much to yourselves. That will give you 3 hours before the tour bus crowds catch up to you which is a good time to pick up your car and drive back to Athens.
Greece is a place where less destinations and more time at your selected sites is a great way to go.

wandergirlCO

Clausar-
That is so nice of you to call the Caves. I would be thrilled if they are normally accessible. Then it will be back to Plan A. Thanks also for the driving information. I spent several hours today checking google, Via Michelan, and looking through old threads for reliable driving times. There was quite a lot of variability. Google seems to consistently underestimate the times. When you refer to driving to Olympia from Nafplio what route are you referring to ?

Stanbr- What you recommended is exactly what I came to. It would give us the most flexibility.

Also I had read on some threads in 2014 about road work on E65 along the coastline. Do you know if that is completed now or is that something we need to take into account?

Here my newest working plan:
Day 1: Athens to Nafplio- see Ancient Corinth and maybe Nemea or Mycenae on the way or take the coastal route and see Epidaurus.
Days 2 and 3: Nafplio area
Day 4: Mystras if we feel like it . If we do this we will probably just head partway toward Delphi afterward instead of returning to Nafplio. Looks like the best routing to Delphi from Mystras goes through Kyprissa then toward Olympia. Is there a nice place to stay in that direction that is 1-2 hours from Mystras? OR we may just stay in Nafplio and skip Mystras depending on how we feel.
Day 5: to Delphi- depending on the route I found driving time of 5 - 8 hours from Nafplio and 6 1/2 -7 1/2 hours from Mystras. Does that sound about right.
Day 6: see Delphi, drive back to Athens.
We then have 2 full days in Athens.

Given that it is October do we need reservations for a place to stay on day 4 or could we just see where we end up at?

Thanks again to both of you for helping me with this. I really appreciate it.
It is clear to me that I will just need to schedule another trip to Greece soon.

clausar

The Diros Caves are fully accessible, there is no high water, ( which was to be expected) and the employee I talked to confirmed that.

They have now switched to the off season schedule and they close at 15:30, so please take this into consideration.

The drive from Mystras to Delphi will pass through Kyparissia, that's correct, from nafplio to Olympia, you will pass through the mountainous Pelopponese, the route goes over Levidi, Vitina, Lagadia etc.
This is a very scenic drive, villages like Lagadia or Vitina on your way are worth a short visit.

There is no need to make any bookings in advance for October, just play it by the ear, what I do I this case, is checking booking.com on my smart phone, to see what is available near me.

E 65, if you mean the part between Corinth and Patras, this is still under construction, but a scenic drive would be to take the old coastal road, that takes you through nice villages and orange orchards. On the mainland, Nafpaktos and Galaxidi are on your way, both beautiful towns, and worth a visit.
Calculate no more than 5 hours for this route.

joannyc

Have you seen photos of Meteora? I highly recommend it as an overnight to see the monasteries.

wandergirlCO

Clauser- Thank you so very much, I really really appreciate you taking the time to call the Caves for us and helping me with planning. That is good but challenging news. Challenging in how to work it into the time we have.

Did they by any chance say what time they open? Online it says winter hours are 0830-1500 after November 1st and 1000-1800 in summer. That would help in planning.

Would the following be at all realistic? I know the first 2 days will be long days. I included the driving times I was able to find just to be sure they are reasonable.
-- Day 1: arrive Athens 9 am, pick up car probably leaving 11am.
Drive to Mystras (3 hrs), allow 4-5 hrs to see Mystras (closing 2000).
Stay around Mystras or drive to Githro (1 hr). I am thinking seeing the Caves on day 1 would be unrealistic given drive time of 4-5 hrs and closing time of 1530.
-- Day 2: AM: Caves (1- 1 1/2 hrs to get there, 1 hr to see) then drive to Nafplio (4 hrs). If we are unable to see Mystras on day 1 for some reason, we will skip the caves and see Mystras instead.
-- Day 3/4: Nafplio
-- Day 5: to Delphi (5 hrs via Corinth- Patras) on coastal route

If we move the Caves/Mystras to the end is a 7 hrs driving time from around Kalamata to Delphi correct?

Hopefully after all this we can then come up with a reasonable compromise. Trying to accommodate the wants of 3 people is a juggling act. Again, I cannot thank you enough for your help.

Joannyc- Thanks for your response. I have seen pictures and would love to see but Meteora but cannot fit it in this trip. My travel companions and I have chosen to focus on the Peloponnese and Delphi this trip. Clearly I will need to return to Greece in the future. I wish we could add more time but jobs get in the way.

clausar

The Caves have switched to the off season opening hours from 08:30 to 15:30 hrs.

Best place to overnight would be in my opinion Gythio, which is 36 km away from Diros.


I would calculate 4 hours from the Athens airport to Mystras even more if you stop at the Canal of Corinth which is on your way.

Kalamata to Delphi should be about 7 hours

wandergirlCO

Thank you so so much. This helps a lot.
I think trying to see the Caves is just too much. Hopefully I can convince the other parties of this.