Roe Gentile

This will be our first trip to Italy to celebrate our 19th. wedding anniversary. We'd like to spend 3 weeks in Italy, going to Rome, Florence, Venice and Palermo. Plan to leave in early June or wait 'til Sept. <BR>Concerns: Hotels,and transportation, we need to be in close proximity to major sights, and could someone advise us about water taxis in Venice...heard they were very expensive, it that true ? <BR> <BR>Thanks so much to those that respond. <BR> <BR>

Fodors police - you just got yourself a traffic citation, mister, for worst

Please re-post this message with a better heading like "I would like advice on when is the best time to take a three week anniversary trip to Italy"

Tam T. Le

I just got back from Venice. You'll love it! It'll be the highlight of your trip! Transportation in Venice is cheap if you know what to do. The only thing that's expensive is the gondola. They're about $80 for an hour's ride! It's actually kind of corny-- the gondoliers actually wear B&W striped shirts with red handerchiefs and they will sing to you. I think I even heard O Sole Mio!! However, if you're dying to ride in one, you may want to split the cost with other tourists by sharing the ride. We took the Vaporetto/i. They're like water buses. A round trip costs about $6 per person. You can buy the tickets near the booths at the train station. You may want to buy a few because the booths aren't open late in the evening and you don't want to be caught without a ticket. The operators aren't strict, but you don't want the cost and embarassment of possibly being fined. If you don't have a ticket, you need to tell the ride operator right when you get on and you can buy one from him. The most fun spot to sit is in the back in the open air. It's spectacular! The front is cold, but we went in March. Your hotel may have tickets for you to buy. Also, you can take a Traghetto/i if you need to cross the Canal. They're only about $0.75 (or less) per person and you pay the driver directly. They're for short trips only and you travel standing up! The nicer hotels have private water taxis for you to take (I don't know about the cost) or you can call for one (again, I don't know the price). We took the Vaporetti the whole time and loved it!! The schedules aren't hard to figure out, (there are maps posted) and they come very regularly so you won't have to wait long-- maybe 5 minutes. As for hotels, we're students and we stayed at a 2 star hotel near the train station. The area is very nice and safe-- it's not like Rome's Termini station area at all! The further you stay down the Canal-- near Rialto bridge or San Marco-- the more expensive it is. Buy a guide book because they're very helpful and usually pretty accurate. We used Frommer's. Have a great time and I promise you'll love Italy and Venice!!

elaine

Dear Roe <BR>If you would like my travel notes for Florence and/or Venice, feel free to email me. There's information on transportation in there as well. Water taxis are relatively expensive, but the vaporetti (water buses) are not. Don't wait to book your hotels; you may find for June that many of the popular moderately-priced places are fully booked, and that may hold true even for September. <BR>Have a wonderful trip.

steve stroobants

You made an excellent choice by going to Italy. It is probably one of the most beautifull country's in the world. For visiting Rome, you should take at least 3 or 4 days. The hills surrounding the forum romanum are a very restfull place (and romantic too). Go to the Trevi fountains and the Spanish stairs at night, there is a very nice athmosphere than. Also very nice is a guided tour in one of the 'catacombs' at the via Apia. Don't expect too much of the Colosseum. Very romantic is a trip to the gardens and fountains of the Villa d'Este(anno 1550) in Tivoli, about 30km away from Rome. <BR>Firenze can be done in 2 days, but you should spend some time in this part of the country (Toscane), very beautifull nature and very quiet. <BR>The best kept Roman town, Pompei, is more to the south of Rome, but is very much worth the trip. <BR>Venice is very expensive! but you should go see it. Don't eat or drink anything on the Piazza san marco. They ask more money if you sit outside and they also charge you for a fork and knife!! <BR>Enjoy!

Maddy

We are headed to Italy on May 1 for our first trip. We will spend most of our time in Venice and have been advised to ride as much as we walk as there is a great deal of both to do! I was told to buy multiple day tickets for the vaporetto....has anyone used these? <BR> <BR>We have also been advised to know the restaurants we would like as the quality varies, and many people say they do not like the food (or maybe it is the prices) in Venice. <BR>We also have a short visit of two nights in Forence (after a stay in the Cinque Terre.) <BR>I agree about booking hotels. I spent a great deal of time emailing before I found some with our dates/ budget available for May. There are a number of good sites that link to hotels all over Italy. I dealt directly with the hotels but got a first look on the web. <BR>Good luck planning your trip. <BR>Notes on Florence/Venice trip would be great. <BR> <BR>

Rex

No matter what time of the year, the problem with Venice is too much demand and too little supply - - of the "really good stuff" that is. This results in mediocre (which are in greater supply) places (hotels OR restaurants) charging too much, and "really good" places (hotels or restaurants) charging WAY TOO much. <BR> <BR>With that said, here's an anecdote about a place near Piazza San Marco - - normally I would agree with the advice to stay away from such "Tourist central" locations for meals. However, we recently found ourselves at our rendez-vous point in front of the Basilica at about 5:00 pm and some of our group was hungry and didn't feel like wandering off the beaten path to find a place to eat. Besides, we had had mediocre experiences in some "less obvious" locations anyway. So we went to Ai Falciami Birreria, in the little square just of Pzza S Marco (to the left as you face the Basilica, and had a most delightful meal, with excellent service. If the price was a little high ($125 for 7 people) well, that's Venice for you, and at least everyone loved the food and the service was great (and the four females in our group swooned over two of the waiters). To their credit, they also were very accommodating to us pulling a bottle of wine out of our shopping bag (purchased earlier that afternoon at a place just a few hundred yards further towards S. Zaccharia - - sorry, can't remember the name) - and provided uncorking and glasses at no charge. <BR> <BR>I also agree with the info about water taxis - - if they're expensive, they're also totally unnecessary. And as far as I can tell, so are tickets for the vaporetto rides. The fine, if you do get caught is 26,000 LIT ($13 USD), and I have never seen a ticket checker in four trips to Venice. <BR> <BR>Best wishes, <BR> <BR>Rex

richard j vicek

Good afernoon, Roe <BR>Here is a list of hotels one each for <BR>Palermo, Rome, Florence and Venice <BR>which we have used in past and recent <BR>years and have been very satisified with. <BR>PALERMO <BR>JOLLY HOOTEL DEL FORO ITALICO, Foro <BR>Italico, 22 is a four star hotel with <BR>277 rooms, with excellant dining room. <BR>It is located about two blocks south of <BR>the old port.. It is just off a long <BR>beach facing the sea. <BR>ROME <BR>HOTEL DE LA VILLE, Via Sistina, 69, is <BR>a four star hotel with 189 rooms, located less than a half block south of <BR>the Triniti di Monte, the top of the <BR>Spanish Steps, plenty of shops of ristorantes around, both toward the <BR>Via Veneto and down the steps to the <BR>Corso/Condotti area. Rear rooms tend <BR>to be more quieter than those facing <BR>the Sistina. <BR>FLORENCE <BR>HOTEL CONTINENTAL, Lungarno Acciaioli,2, <BR>is a four star hotel with 61 rooms. It <BR>is located on the river at the Ponte <BR>Vecchio, a very good locations, does not <BR>have its own ristorante but plenty of <BR>ristorantes and shops on either side of <BR>the river... <BR>VENICE <BR>HOTEL SATURNIA, Calle Larga, 22 Marzo, 2348, is a four star hotel with 95 rooms <BR>with its own and excellant ristorante <BR>LA CARVELLA. It is located about 1 and a half blocks west of the SW exit from <BR>the Pza S. Marco. <BR>We have used all of these hotels some <BR>from as far back as the last 70's. <BR>If you need any ristorante suggestioins, drop me a line direct. Richard of Lagrange Park, Il... <BR>

Phil

Dear Roe: <BR>I suggest you defer your trip till September, as during early June Italy will REALLY be packed with tourists (Ascencion, Pentecost, Giubileo etc...) and you might be hard put to finding reasonably priced accomodation (I can tell, I'll spend Pentecost at Venice). <BR> <BR>Travelling by public transportation in Italy is cheap and easily done. There are season tickets for 3 or 7 days at most places (incidentally, the 24-hour pass in Venice is 18'000 Lire, approximately $8.50, the 72-hour pass 35'000 lire or roughly $17.00; they give you access to all public transport in Venice). <BR> <BR>And Rex: <BR>I really resent your quip about tickets on vaporetti not being necessary. Many cities in Europe rely on an honour system to collect their public transportation fares: There are only infrequent checks aboard trains, streetcars, buses, and, yes, vaporetti. <BR>Do you really want to create a new "ugly American" of the "the fare is cheap, but who cares?" type? <BR> <BR>Phil.

Rex

Phil, <BR> <BR>Okay, I will write "I am ashamed" on the blackboard one hundred times. <BR> <BR>And I will confess that I occasionally extend my stay at a parking meter beyond the duration of the money I put in, and I speed on highways, on more than one continent. <BR> <BR>Breaking the law by traveling without a valid vaporetto ticket, with the complete intention of paying the fine cheerfully if caught, reveals my views on the importance of this law, along with speeding and parking violation laws. I'm not convinced that this makes me an ugly American. <BR> <BR>Venice pays for the daily crush of tourists and their wear and tear on its fragile infrastructure in many ways, including (I presume) taxes on all the over-priced commerce there. This is not a rationalization nor a justification. I believe that they understand well who pays what for the use of the vaporetto, and they choose to allocate the resources they see fit to ensure that tourists keep coming - -in relation to the problem of undercollection of fares. <BR> <BR>I wouldn't be surprised to see Las Vegas institute a system of public transportation someday to move people from one casino to another along the strip. And if they institute an honor system on those "people movers", I think you can predict how much they would enforce the payment of fares on that too. <BR> <BR>For what it's worth, I travel with groups often, and I buy tickets for them to ride the vaporetto. The cost (which as you said is reasonable) is worth not sending the message that I am somehow an intrinsically dishonest person. <BR> <BR>For independent travelers, I stick with the simple statement that tickets may not be necessary, and I make it clear what is the fine for getting caught without one.

Phil

Rex: <BR>This is exactly what I was not hoping for: Your attitude towards the country you are visiting is patronising and reeks of self-righteousness. <BR> <BR>Your statement that you would gladly pay a fine if caught, simply is cynical under the aspect that the odds of being caught are minimal. <BR> <BR>Even more cynically, you seem to imply that the whole of Venice is some kind of Italian Disneyworld, just being run for the ripping off of hordes of tourists, this giving you the moral right to some kind of touristy civil disobedience. <BR> <BR>Venice is a city of 300'000 inhabitants, 70'000 of whom live in the historic centre. These are subject to "overpriced commerce" the same way as tourists are and are subject to limitations and rigours we, living in less fragile environments and on firm ground, cannot imagine. They pay their public transport fare by buying season tickets and help financing a public transport system serving mainly the residents on the islands AND on the mainland, as the vaporetti are only part of the whole system, albeit the most visible for the tourists. Quite in contrast to a people mover on Las Vegas strip, which would cater exclusively to the tourists. <BR> <BR>And NO, they do not take into consideration the fact that many tourists would not pay for their rides and compensate it in other ways, as you imply. <BR> <BR>So PLEASE do in Rome as the Romans do (or in Venice as the Venetians do) and PLEASE think about your attitude, as this is quite in contrast to the ones of most people I read the posts of on this forum. <BR> <BR>Phil

Rex

Phil, <BR> <BR>We may have to simply agree to disagree. I do not think that Venice NOR Las Vegas are Disneylands. Both have real inhabitants (Las Vegas is the largest unified school district in the US), and both have a central core where entertainment and tourism, for visitors from their own respective continents, and every other continent as well - - is by far the predominant industry. You can take public transportation to the hospital in both. <BR> <BR>Las Vegas is both creating its own demand and trying to keep up with it by creating more of itself. In this respect, Venice could not be more different. <BR> <BR>I think I (and you?) have gotten way off the original point (which was apprehension about the high cost of water taxis). Venice is a great place that has a public transportation system that its location and aquatic nature demand, and it serves all who use it well; it also has a basic imbalance between too much "demand" and too little "supply" of the "really good stuff" - whether hotels, restaurants, attractions, whatever). This is the very definition of inflation - - to much money chasing too few goods and services. <BR> <BR>Venice has a serious inflation problem, and virtually everyone I know complies, buys tickets the way they're supposed to, and almost unanimously, feels stupid for having spent that little bit of additional money to do so. <BR> <BR>I am letting people know that fines are exceedingly rare, and that may encounter this stupid feeling, in this gem of a destination where inflation is perhaps inevitable. <BR> <BR>Civilly yours, <BR> <BR>Rex

Phil

Dear Rex, <BR> <BR>At last we have found a point to agree: The prohibitive cost of water taxis in Venice. <BR> <BR>In my opinion this simply underscores my view that you should not throw out the baby with the water: Denying public transport its income eventually will lead to reduced service and to higher transportation costs for everybody. By all means take the vaporetto and be glad to have good service at reasonable price. <BR> <BR>The only way to fight Venice's inflation is to honour the reasonable offers and to avoid paying inflated prices wherever possible. <BR> <BR>And please be aware about the different philosophies in Europe and the United States: Many public transport systems in Europe operate under an honour system. This does not mean that the fare is voluntary. I live at a place operating with this system since 1970 and never travel without a ticket. Checks are rarely performed but the proportion of customers with tickets is over 98%. <BR> <BR>And one more word about the comparison of Venice to Las Vegas: I know that there is a "functioning city" apart from the touristy areas (actually I have been more often to Las Vegas than to Vienna...). <BR> <BR>But you simply cannot compare public transport at Venice, where almost every inhabitant has to use it, to Las Vegas, where almost everybody uses her or his own car. <BR> <BR>Yours sincerely <BR> <BR>Phil.

Anne

Rex, <BR> <BR>Did I miss something? Are you really saying it is OK to take something you are supposed to pay for so long as the odds of getting caught are low enough and you cheerfully pay the fine if caught? Would that philosophy apply to, say, shoplifting at a department store? <BR> <BR>Just checking.

Rex

Anne, <BR> <BR>The terseness of your question settles this argument (if it ever was an argument). Not paying is indefensible. <BR> <BR>Like overstaying a parking meter, some forms of not paying seem to be more socially acceptable than others. <BR> <BR>As I said earlier, I take other people to europe, and Venice continues to be a destination I include on many, many trips. And I buy vaporetto tickets. But I feel dumb, and more and more I bring them home unpunched and unvalidated, and I wonder why I bothered. And I suspect that many other travelers there feel similarly. <BR> <BR>What an incredible run this thread (with essentially "no header") has had!

russ

Yawn

Anne

Rex, <BR> <BR>I agree that not paying is indefensible, but (at the risk of boring Russ)I just don't agree that there is a form of "not paying" that is socially acceptable. Take the parking meter, for instance. The difference between overstaying a parking meter and not paying for a boat ticket is one of intent. When one overstays a meter, it was usually an accident. When one deliberately hops on the boat without paying, one is purposely stealing. So, you might ask, does that mean a tardy driver must add money to the meter to pay for the minutes the meter was expired? Arguably yes, but I don't, because there are far, far more times that I leave money on the meter, and the meter never gives me a refund, so we're even. And as for the unpunched boat tickets in your pocket, don't feel dumb. They weren't a waste of money because you rode the boat, so you what you paid for. <BR> <BR>See you on the boat!

Louise

Dear Roe - After all the arguing about whether or not to take "free rides" no one has bothered to mention that you can buy a PASS for the vaporetto. When you leave the train station, go to the booth on the right at the water's edge and ask for a pass. We bought three day passes (but I think you can get them for longer) for just a few dollars (less than $10) and got on and off the vaporetti as often as we wanted. We did have to show the pass once or twice, so keep it handy. Hope you didn't get bored with all the other messages and didn't get to this one. Have a wonderful trip - Venice is unique, and I want to return soon!

ofelia

Hi, Louise, <BR> <BR>We will be coming from Venice airport on May. <BR>Do you know if we can get the pass also in vaporetto station near the airport? <BR>How about a 2-day pass? Do you know if they have one? Do they accept credit card or do we have to pay cash? <BR>Thanks for the information. <BR> <BR>Ofelia

Gina

Rex, <BR> <BR>$125 for 7 people for dinner at the Al Falciemi Birreria is "a little high?" I'm not known for my math skills, but looks to me like that comes out to about $17 per person. Unless you got nothing but sandwiches, that strikes me as a veritable steal, especially near Piazza San Marco. I don't know of any decent restaurants in a major tourist city where I'd expect to pay less than $17 per person for dinner. I'll be making a note of this place for my next visit--can you say more about the food?