NewbE

I also think that saying that nothing has changed, it has been ever so, etc. etc. is a copout, a way of shirking the task of understanding and trying to improve the situation.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh; we all have our ways of coping with the stress that terrorism produces.

Everyone says that terrorism produces terror, so we must not show fear.

I think terrorism produces inertia, hopelessness, helplessness, which makes us all carry on as we have been; we want to feel normal, so we behave normally, which isn't courage.

fuzzbucket

Ever since Friday, I have felt hopeless, helpless, angry and intolerably sad.
But there comes time to put away those emotions, because tomorrow is another day which brings new life.
La vie est courte, la vie est belle - il faut en profiter.

sandralist

fuzzbucket,

I specifically said in my post that it is a responsibility of peoples living in a DEMOCRACY. And what hasn't worked for the past 14 years is the policies fomented by very politically active people in the Western countries who have relied upon a passive population, more interested in consumerism than taking responsibility for the wars their government foment, and the result is rising insecurity for everybody.

Even before your last post, I was thinking just how big a sign it is that this has disturbed people's sleep that they need to keep looking for some set of blandishments to park this mentally. "Oh, it happens everywhere" 'Oh, there is gun violence in the US" "Oh, it's like the weather, we're not responsible for it."

This is not to induce guilt -- a truly useless emotion in these circumstances - but to ask people to quit wanting to go back to sleep, to lull themselves back into dreamlands. The world has changed in the past 14 years, for the worse, made much more violent and threatening to non-combatants because of the ill-considered policies of Western leaders. For interests of your own security, people need to read up on what ISIS is, what has happened in Syria and Iraq, why the present policies have backfired, and stop supporting the politicians who want to continue the same failed policies.

This is your funeral if you don't.

sandralist

On reflection, I want to make it clear that my last sentence really should have been written to say "This is all our funerals if we don't" because I do not in any way think that this a problem unique to Paris.

And I want to point out that in another thread that broke the news of the attacks in Paris, a poster who resides in Turkey and follows these developments closely, expressed a viewpoint similar to mine:

"otherchelebi on Nov 13, 15 at 11:43pm
My condolences to the people of Paris.

Unfortunately the French government was as responsible for the growth of the suicidal, jihadist fanatics in Syria as were some of the other major EU country governments, United States and Turkey.

Are we looking for a different tyope of refugee situation in the future, when people start leaving large cities or their countries in EU? But for where?

Violence continues to breed and drag people into the maelstrom indifferently and globally.

I hope that these issues are seriously discussed at the G20 summit in Antalya, Turkey this weekend.

But the solution is in the hands of the people and not the leaders."


I agree with that, and that a solution is necessary, not an accommodation.

yestravel

It's refreshing that OC manages to express his views without impugning those of others.

thursdaysd

"But the solution is in the hands of the people and not the leaders"

Really? That <i>sounds</i> great, but what does it actually <i>mean</i>? (And did OC write it before or after Erdogan's re-election, I wonder.)

I distinctly remember demonstrating against the Iraq invasion (I was in Asia at the time of the Afghan invasion). I distinctly remember voting for Bush's opponent. Twice. What, precisely, do you suggest I do in this situation?

And by saying that the last few decades in the west have been something of an anomaly (and not all of Europe was spared terror) I am not proposing apathy or resignation, I am merely pointing out that people have lived with terror and mayhem before.

BritishCaicos

", I am merely pointing out that people have lived with terror and mayhem before"

During the past 1000 years, the longest period Europe a managed to avoid war has been 100 years (1815 - 1914). Although the during that period both Italy and Germany suffered civil wars which resulted in their unification.

That leaves you with the period from 1946 to the Balkan Wars 1992. This period of "peace" started with the end of Hitler's regime of genocide and ended with genocide and ethnic cleansing in Bosnia.

Governments love wars, they take voters focus off balance of payments deficits and street lights that don't work.

cwra

While it wasn't all of Europe there was a War between Prussia and France in 1870-71 which cuts the 100 years of peace to 55 years.

pariswat

And a revolution war in Belgium in 1830 which saw actions against the Dutchs whilst we were greatly supported by the French.
40 years of peace.

And I suppose we forget some more.

Nevertheless in western Europe we have had peace since 45.

BritishCaicos

You could be really cyclical and come to the conclusion that deep down Western establishments love their "war on terror". It doesn't get out of hand and they seem to be able to dip in and out periodically.

thursdaysd

"Nevertheless in western Europe we have had peace since 45."

No war between states, but quite a lot of mayhem within them. ETA. IRA. Mafia, RAF (Germany), Red Brigades (Italy). No doubt others. Assorted race riots in Britain, and I think France.

thursdaysd

Also, just because European states weren't fighting each other, that doesn't mean they weren't fighting in other parts of the world. E.g. Korea (Britain), Vietnam and Algeria (France), Africa (Britain and Portugal).

Nonconformist

In the 19th century there were a number of wars within Europe - Crimea, various wars of German aggression, in the Balkans; and plenty of war abroad as empires grew.

And quite a few European countries have been involved in wars elsewhere in the post WWII period, too, e.g. as part of the retreat from empires.

cigalechanta

The day before the Paris attacks, Beirut was hit again. Kenya has some attack. The press doesn't pay as much attention to non western countries it seems.

BritishCaicos

I suppose all we've proved in the last 10 posts is that we are not a very nice species.

thursdaysd

Did you have any doubt? From the perspective of most other species we're a plague.

BritishCaicos

Mmmmm.

Plagues die out eventually.

Guenmai

"cigalechanta on Nov 17, 15 at 11:58am
The day before the Paris attacks, Beirut was hit again. Kenya has some attack. The press doesn't pay as much attention to non western countries it seems."

True. And Nigeria months ago.

Happy Travels!

GoodLuckGirl

My heart is broken for Paris and I salute and commend the city and its people for their loyalty and solidarity in the face of evil.
As indicated by Kerouac and Ackislander, these are dangerous times filled with deranged people.
But we must show our strength and validate our support by continuing to visit Paris or any other destination who has experienced tragedy and adversity.
"Nous sommes tous Paris".

fuzzbucket

Waaaaayyy back in Time - when the first human beings concentrated only on things like banding together to attack a wooly mammouth and huddling together in a cave so they could stay warm - things were peaceful, because survival depended on cooperation, not conflict.

With the rise of agriculture - when slightly more advanced humans marked off their territory and began to separate themselves from each other so they would have room to plant crops and domesticate animals - nothing prevented them from developing different (though often similar) ideas of what "personal identity" and "religion" meant.

But that's when there were very few humans wandering the Earth - so there was lots of room to avoid each other instead of committing murder in the name of something-or-other. If you didn't like the atmosphere, you could leave.

But of course, the killing came a little later, when weapons were used for things other than securing dinner.

Now there are waaaaayyy too many people struggling to survive - most of them have invented States and Countries, so they can do things the way they see fit. Leaders have the ability to starve, murder and crush anyone who doesn't agree with them, and have seen to it that nobody will get out alive.

War and violence have been an intrinsic component of human behavior for longer than we care to admit. Since the end of the human tribes whose very survival depended on "cooperation or death", human beings have been at the mercy of those who think differently, who are greedy for power and are strong enough to rise above the rest.

It won't go away. There is no magic formula to make everybody cooperate again. It's sad, it's tragic - but it is the world that we human beings have made.