UndercoverShyGirl

Okay, I'm a new poster but longtime lurker - please be gentle ;-)

I'm in the initial stages of planning a 3 or 4-week Europe trip this year (it will either be summer or oct/nov) with my 16 and 18 year old sons and possibly a friend or two of theirs. I've been to Europe before but my children have never been out of the US. The goal of this trip is to plan an itinerary that will give my kids a taste of how different and bigger and wonderful and crazy the world is outside of the US...they don't yet have a concept of the different ways people live and they are almost out of the nest, so I want to give them this trip to expand their horizons, open their minds, and maybe instill a yearn for travel...

I'm looking to you for initial itinerary advice on what destinations to choose...then i will research and make my itinerary and come back here to finalize.

I'm on a budget and will be planning in part around finding the best experiences (and comfy bed, i'm getting old!) for the best price. I don't mind switching up transportation methods and lodging types (b&b/hostel/hotel for under $150 for most nights).

We all love eating, swimming, seeing how locals live. We live to the fullest...we probably prefer mountains and lakes to deserts and the only thing i've ever heard expressed from them is seeing "that cool water in the commercials" which means we probably need to hit a sea somewhere. None of us are big academics...we're smart but more interested in people and relations and things than pouring over historical artifacts or art for lengths of time...If we were to go to the louve, we'd look for art we know and spend a few hours making sure to see the most famous pieces and people watching, then we'd go eat and be happy to get on to the next adventure.

I have bad knees and back so while i get around pretty well, i won't be doing the active vacation for them (hiking/biking)..we'll probably stick more to walking and swimming and i'll watch if they want to do some extreme sport, etc.

Soooo, where on earth should we go?

My original thoughts were too ambitious (though keep in mind we're getting flavor and a few key sights, not in-depth exploration):
Day 1-4 London (visit friends)
Day 5-8 Paris
Day 9-11 Swizerland (just BO)
Day 12-18 Italy (lakes and venice?)
Day 19-21 Croatia (for beach and bball)
Day 22-25 Greece (beach/boats)
Day 26-31 Turkey (friends in Istanbul)

My rationale was to start in an English speaking country, then tube to France, rent car to berner Oberland and continue on driving to italy. Then to croatia and/or greece for some beach time and then to istanbul/turkey.

I realize it's crazy - I'd love to see my england friends and turkey friends...not to mention it helps to have a guide and host. I can see that it probably makes more sense to do an italy/greece/turkey tour...but i feel like adding someplace vastly different like Paris/England or even Spain would put icing on the cake and really give them a great trip.

Can anyone suggest a 4-week itinerary that combines all these elements...Just pinning down the destinations we can do in this time would be great! I'm considering looking at the eurostar trips...i'd love for the travel part to be easy and since i'm the only driver...i'd also consider cruising/barging etc...overall i'm just looking for a great "first, hopefully not last" trip for my boys.

bashawdi

I recommend that you narrow down your list to only 3 or 4 places. It is too many places to be budget friendly and I feel there would be too much travel time/work for the you.

I would try to avoid renting a car and would opt for local and train travel instead.

How about Spain, Italy and France or two of those and London?

Your sons will get a better feel for cities and Europe in general if they spend more time in each place.

Lodging will likely be your biggest obstacle with 4-6 people. Recommend you check into renting apartments or homes at www.vrbo.com.

If you pick the right cities, high speed travel to other cities is an easy day trip. Sometimes less is more. What is most important to your boys?

Good luck.

Diane

logos999

That schedule looks like you have to drive all night and sleep during the day. Not possible unless your kids do some of the driving too and your willing to spend a lot of time in the car.

scatcat

Do the boys have any input as to destinations? My sons listed Amsterdam as a "must see."

brotherleelove2004

7 countries in 4 weeks???

The only taste your kids will get is a bad one for all the rushing around with no time to stop and relax to enjoy the surroundings. Choose 2 countries and explore them thoroughly, giving them a say as to what you as a family does together and they by themselves when appropriate. That gives you some time away from all the teen energy and them some time away from MOM.

speckles

I would avoid driving where possible as it adds to the tension and also means you miss out on actually seeing the views as you're too busy concentrating on driving in a foreign land.

I used the trains through Europe a few years ago and found it easy. I would suggest, however, to try and plan a trip where you spend no more than half a day travelling if possible (ie 4-5 hr max. journey). This way you can travel in the morning and explore the new city in the afternoon/evening; give your legs a stretch after sitting so long etc.

Does the $150/night need to cover all 4-5 of you or just the 3 in your family? ie if the friends go will you be booking one room for 4-5 people (not so easy to get) or 2 rooms for 2-3 people each?

As for visiting friends, are they simply friends of yours or are they friends of the whole family (ie have kids a similar age to your boys whom they would like to catch up with)? While I can understand that you want to catch up with your friends, if the boys aren't that familiar with them it may not be very interesting for them.

Would visiting these friends include any accommodation? London/England is quite expensive, although I really enjoy visiting it.

Are you planning to fly into one country and out of another? This will save back-tracking.

Barbara_in_FL

Hi Shy Girl,

I'm a big fan of visiting friends while traveling, so I think starting in London and ending in Istanbul could be a great idea.

In between I would add two destinations max, especially since it will take you a bit of time to get from one end of your itinerary to the other.

It sounds like beach time is a must, so I would choose one destination that will allow that. For example, Croatia or Greece, but not both.

And before that, for some mountains, Switzerland or Italy, but not both.

Let your sons have some input by all means. They will be more invested in the trip if something along the way was their choice.

I would consider relying on trains more than driving.

You didn't say whether you'd be able to stay with your friends or not. But the suggestion of an apartment for a week at a time is a good one. Among other things, it forces you to do some of your own shopping and cooking, which is a good way to get off the tourist treadmill.

Flying for part of your itinerary might even make sense.

Talk to your boys a little bit and see if you can get any more out of them, and then I'm sure you will get lots more specific suggestions here as well.

ozgirl

Hello undercovershygirl, what an adventure for you all!
I will give you a little advice from our trips to Europe particularly if you are on a budget...

I totally agree with other posters re staying in less places for longer time and this is really the way to "feel the culture and meet the people."

Also, with a group of three (possibly more) consider an apartment/house rental, that will possibly be a cheaper way to deal with accommodation.

I have to admit to being very partial to France and Provence in particular, but when we took my (then 13 year old) daughter and her friend to France the part THEY liked best was our rental in Provence. They walked out the front door to buy their pain au chocolat for breakfast and practiced their French on the very patient shopkeepers!

You can cook local food for yourselves (bought fresh from markets) and this also saves money.

I know it is very tempting to try and cover as much ground as possible but at least a couple of longer stays will give you more the experience you after I think.

Have fun!

speckles

I found the following Swiss rail website (in English) very useful when I planned my European rail trip. You plug in the cities and it comes up with a range of options available to get you between the two. It shows train type, how many changes you need to make (if any), whether that train type requires reservation or not, gives departure and arrival times and duration of journey.

http://www.sbb.ch/en/index.htm

Aduchamp1

Enjoy 2 countries well. The boys are young and they will return. Take a city and the countryside of two such as England and France, it will be rewarding.

isabel

I agree what you propose is way too much. How about you take out Switzerland, Croatia and Greece. London and Paris for four full days each (plus a travel day) will give a nice "taste". But if you add an extra day to each you could do a day trip or two so they could see what a smaller town in each country is like.

Then either budget airline flight or night train to Italy - boys that age might like to hike the Cinque Terre which would give a taste of small town Italy, the seacoast and hiking, all at once. Then by train you could easily hit several other places - the lakes (even do a day trip up into Switzerland so as to add another country), Florence, Rome and/or Venice. Then fly to Turkey.

You'd hit four (or five) different countries with fairly distinct cultures. I personally would probably split it up 6 days each in England and France, 10 days in Italy, and that would leave you with 8 in Turkey. If you really want to add in one more country I'd probably do Amsterdam on the way from England to France (kind of on the way) and then do something like: 5 days London with a day trip, 3 days Amsterdam, 6 days Paris with one or two day trips, 10 days Italy, 6 days Turkey.

suze

You are correct to think you original itinerary is WAY too much for the time frame, at least twice too much!

My proposition is to get the teenagers involved. Let them do some research and each person pick one place they want to have included, then go there.

5 people, 5 places, 4 weeks... would be OK.

suze

You posted on another thread...

<<fodors is known for the few snobby people that would rather criticize>>

Please disregard my post above.

StCirq

Why don't you just post under your "real" name, Spygirl, so you can avoid all the "Fodors snobs" you so disdain who will tell you you're doing too much in too small a timeframe?

Your itinerary is of course ridiculous, but you planned it that way so you could ridicule the answers, didn't you?

suze

Ah ha... Of course, I thought this person sounded familiar!

Barbara_in_FL

I'm sure I'm missing some insider information here, but the OP said that she realized her original plan was too ambitious, and asked for suggestions in narrowing it down. So what's the point of telling her the original plan is ridiculous, if she already knows it?

UndercoverShyGirl

To those of you that posted advice, thank you! I think you are correct and I am just too excited to go so want to go everywhere!

Isabel, the " 5 days London with a day trip, 3 days Amsterdam, 6 days Paris with one or two day trips, 10 days Italy, 6 days Turkey." sounds like an excellent idea actually. I think it combines the "get a lot in" but with a little less stress on both the budget and MOM as some of you said. I'll probably skip the amsterdam or extra country as well - so that leaves 4 countries which is still a lot i know, but i think we will get a lot out of that. I can stay with friends in both London and Istanbul so that is a big help. They would totally want to take us around and help us out and we all have a fun time together so not worried about those ends being boring for the kids. I'm trying to get the boys and friends (who will pay their own way so that would help with lodging, etc) involved by going through DK guides and going to rent some dvds from the library so we can all try to decide together.

I really appreciate the train advice as well...I found a good thread here from a very knowledgeable rail person so I'm going to look into it. Thanks again!

I was wondering about lodging for that many people - if we can do apartments and fit us all in or if we'll be challenged in that area. We don't have to have the same room of course, but it would be better. I'd expect to cook a bit, especially because they eat so much!

Suze and StQirq, i don't know who you are - but i'll say it again, my comment about fodors "snobs" was in response to attacks being made on an innocent poster with an ambitious trip similiar to what i was thinking - lots of countries, not much time...I don't know why you are calling me Spygirl, but you are misinformed. As I said from the beginning, i've been a long time lurker and fodors supporter and appreciate these forums very much. Please use whatever experience you have here to help people and stop attacking me. Thank you.

Anyone else that has done some similiar itineraries, or travelled with teens, please feel free to post. Otherwise, i will start looking into the travel times...i totally agree with the poster that mentioned keeping it to 4 or 5 hours at most a day. Thanks again to all!

speckles

Something teenage boys might find fun are Segway tours. I've not tried them, but they are something a little different. I know they are offered in Paris, but probably in other cities too. There are a number of companies which offer them, so google it for information.

propertravel

This is great idea to show them existing of another world outside of your own....
Especially for the opportunity of experiencing different cultures Turkey should stand one off from the rest. And while you are in Turkey if you can open room for Cappadocia you will be all pleased.

6 days should be fine for a good taste for starters. just a small note, one of the best sailing vacation destination is also Turkey. Which can also combine two country at a time.

Hope you will create a good itinerary and come to Turkey.

Happy travelling,
Murat

afterall

You know yourself, of course, that your first thoughts are way too ambitious! If, as you say, you're looking to introduce your sons to the outside world and the joys of travel, then I would go for variety of destination and variety of transport. Something along these lines, perhaps.

Yes, fly to London - an English speaking destination for starters. Then Eurostar it to Paris. I would then take an overnight train to Venice. It would then depend on time of year - if the summer you could take one of the many ferries from Italy to Greece, or perhaps it would be better to fly. Then use ferries to visit one or more of the Greek Islands. Then Turkey, because as someone has already said, there you will find a different culture altogether and Istanbul, like Venice, offers innumerable opportunities just to wander.

If it's winter, skip the Greek Islands, spend more time in France (Normandy perhaps by car) and Italy.
But still end in Istanbul.

Happy planning.