A full week in The Netherlands
Dec 14th, 2013, 01:18 PM
#21
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"and buy a Fiets Ticket (bicycle ticket) that allows them to put their bikes on most trains (in specially marked bike storage areas) for the whole day - take the train to Haarlem.."
Excuse me for interrupting again: do I have it right that one can take a bike, without disassembling it first, on the local trains (provided one buys the proper bike ticket and uses the proper storage area.) I had given up on the idea since I couldn't see taking the wheels, etc. off of a rental bike and then trying to reassemble it. But if one can just roll the bike on the train, and then roll it off, well, that's another thing.
Can someone straighten this out for me?
Excuse me for interrupting again: do I have it right that one can take a bike, without disassembling it first, on the local trains (provided one buys the proper bike ticket and uses the proper storage area.) I had given up on the idea since I couldn't see taking the wheels, etc. off of a rental bike and then trying to reassemble it. But if one can just roll the bike on the train, and then roll it off, well, that's another thing.
Can someone straighten this out for me?
Dec 14th, 2013, 01:40 PM
#22
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Well that has always been the case but I have not been there this year - you hang them on hooks or roll them into the special bike compartment, usually in the middle of the train if I recall correctly.
Dec 14th, 2013, 01:48 PM
#23
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http://translate.google.com/translat...%26es_sm%3D122
says bikes must nbe placed yourself in the room marked by a blue bike symbol on the train but room is not guaranteed at all times, etc.
says bikes must nbe placed yourself in the room marked by a blue bike symbol on the train but room is not guaranteed at all times, etc.
Dec 14th, 2013, 02:02 PM
#24
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jjude, the dreaded tourist triangle is the places you will see most Fodorites recommend, Amsterdam, Den Haag, Leiden, Delft, Harlem with a compulsory visit to Zaanse Schans, maybe a trip to Rotterdam or Kröller Muller for the adventurous.
A few make it to Utrecht, and possibly to Maastricht, but very few venture out into the real country, and experience the differences there are, even in such a small flat crowded land.
It is the same as in Belgium where Brugge, Gent and Brussels form the Holy Trinity. Very few Fodorites head into Wallonia, to the Ardennes, or even know there is a German speaking part of Belgium.
Yes the Dutch countryside is manipulated but then so is the French, the British, the Spanish, pretty much any Western European landscape is the way it is because of man.
Those prairies of yours full of corn instead of prairie grass, those acres of wheat, the cattle ranches and lots, all manipulated.
Man has been busy throughout the world. It is hard to find a true wilderness. Even in America.
A few make it to Utrecht, and possibly to Maastricht, but very few venture out into the real country, and experience the differences there are, even in such a small flat crowded land.
It is the same as in Belgium where Brugge, Gent and Brussels form the Holy Trinity. Very few Fodorites head into Wallonia, to the Ardennes, or even know there is a German speaking part of Belgium.
Yes the Dutch countryside is manipulated but then so is the French, the British, the Spanish, pretty much any Western European landscape is the way it is because of man.
Those prairies of yours full of corn instead of prairie grass, those acres of wheat, the cattle ranches and lots, all manipulated.
Man has been busy throughout the world. It is hard to find a true wilderness. Even in America.
Dec 14th, 2013, 02:20 PM
#25
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So what do you recommend the average first-time tourist to Holland do in the countryside over visiting those other historic cities with so so many neat sights?
Seriously you would recommend a sojourn in rural Friesland over one in Amsterdam or Delft of Leiden - I can see biking a little for a day or so and to do that I would mix some famous sight with the countryside like taking the train to historic Gouda, as nice a regional Dutch city as any its size and then biking thru yes pure countryside to Kinderdijhk and cycle through Holland's largest collection of behemoth wooden windmills - authentic I think vs Zaanse Schanse re-located mills.
hetismij - when you go to the States then you spend your time mainly outside of New York, SF, Florida and in Iowa or Kansas or northern Michigan - well northern Michigan is one of the most beautiful natural places on Earth - huge sand dunes much higher than any in Holland - miles and miles of streams to angle in and trails to walk through pure wilderness - no I bet your first time to the States - if you have gone - would be to the old standbys you've been hearing about your whole life - I bet at first your went to NYC (Big Apple to foreigners) - City by the Bay, Orlando, Florida, the Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, etc. Perhaps you did not and I can see an amazing first trip to the U S that incorporates non of the major cities.
anyway the Dutch counrryside is totally unique to me in appearance because of its often polder aspect but what would I do there? Collect butterflies?
Seriously you would recommend a sojourn in rural Friesland over one in Amsterdam or Delft of Leiden - I can see biking a little for a day or so and to do that I would mix some famous sight with the countryside like taking the train to historic Gouda, as nice a regional Dutch city as any its size and then biking thru yes pure countryside to Kinderdijhk and cycle through Holland's largest collection of behemoth wooden windmills - authentic I think vs Zaanse Schanse re-located mills.
hetismij - when you go to the States then you spend your time mainly outside of New York, SF, Florida and in Iowa or Kansas or northern Michigan - well northern Michigan is one of the most beautiful natural places on Earth - huge sand dunes much higher than any in Holland - miles and miles of streams to angle in and trails to walk through pure wilderness - no I bet your first time to the States - if you have gone - would be to the old standbys you've been hearing about your whole life - I bet at first your went to NYC (Big Apple to foreigners) - City by the Bay, Orlando, Florida, the Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, etc. Perhaps you did not and I can see an amazing first trip to the U S that incorporates non of the major cities.
anyway the Dutch counrryside is totally unique to me in appearance because of its often polder aspect but what would I do there? Collect butterflies?
Dec 15th, 2013, 01:29 AM
#26
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Excuse me for interrupting again: do I have it right that one can take a bike, without disassembling it first, on the local trains (provided one buys the proper bike ticket and uses the proper storage area.) I had given up on the idea since I couldn't see taking the wheels, etc. off of a rental bike and then trying to reassemble it. But if one can just roll the bike on the train, and then roll it off, well, that's another thing.
Can someone straighten this out for me?
-------
PalenQ answered this one already: find the compartment with a large blue bicycle on the doors and that's where the spot for your bike is. This is a priority spot for bikes, so if people sit there on the fold-down seats, it's not at all weird to ask them to move to accommodate your bike.
There are no hooks to hang your bike from though, that's the Belgian and German system.
Compartments can be crowded and in any month except july and august you can't bring your bike before 9 am. And doing this during the afternoon rush can also be an interesting experience.
Can someone straighten this out for me?
-------
PalenQ answered this one already: find the compartment with a large blue bicycle on the doors and that's where the spot for your bike is. This is a priority spot for bikes, so if people sit there on the fold-down seats, it's not at all weird to ask them to move to accommodate your bike.
There are no hooks to hang your bike from though, that's the Belgian and German system.
Compartments can be crowded and in any month except july and august you can't bring your bike before 9 am. And doing this during the afternoon rush can also be an interesting experience.
Dec 15th, 2013, 01:34 AM
#27
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I think the point hetismij is making (and I concur) is, that The Netherlands are so small that it's easy to reach the farthest corners of this kingdom. And so it makes little sense to limit yourself to Amsterdam or Haarlem. For instance, it really amazes me that not more people venture to Utrecht. 20 minutes by train from Amsterdam! The city of Groningen, with the wildly wonderful Groninger Museum and an inner city that will amaze you, if only because of its traffic almost entirely consisting of people on bikes, is 2.5 hours by train.
Dec 15th, 2013, 05:06 AM
#28
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Yes Utretch and Rotterdam to me are gems in their own ways but often overlooked for Delft - Haarlem is a nice day trip because it is only 20 minutes or so from Amsterdam and thus could be a half-day trip for folks stretched for time - at least seeing something besides Amsterdam.
Still am waiting for recommendations of what the average first-time traveler to Holland should do in the countryside - specifics or just wander around like the tribes of Israel?
Still am waiting for recommendations of what the average first-time traveler to Holland should do in the countryside - specifics or just wander around like the tribes of Israel?
Dec 15th, 2013, 07:48 AM
#29
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"PalenQ answered this one already:"
Menachem, I do appreciate the time you took to answer my questions, but with respect, I'm a very detail-specific person, I read very carefully, and Palenq did not specify the precise way in which the bike could be carried on the train.
My confusion stems precisely because I do research. First, I went to the source - Dutch rail, http://www.ns.nl/en/travellers/home - and read this:
<i> Bicycle Day Travel Card
Bicycles may be taken on the train during off-peak hours.
To do this you purchase a Bicycle Day Ttravel Card from the ticket machine.
A Bicycle Day Travel Card allows you to take a (folding) tandem, reclining bicycle or <b> disassembled racing bike on the train. </b>
A Bicycle Day Card is not necessary for a standard folding bicycle. Passengers may take standard folding bicycles on the train with them free of charge (provided they meet the terms and conditions) </i>
**************
Well, the need for a day card is obvious, since tourist rental bikes will not be folding bikes.
But it is less obvious to a first-time visitor how the bike is to be carried. The average tourist rental bike is not a reclining (by which I assume they mean a recumbent bike), nor a tandem folding or unfolding: the closest approximation is a racing bike - with the exception that the handlebars on a standard bike if anything protrude even more on a standard bike. So to the uninitiated, the train staff could arguably insist that if a racing bike must be disassembled, a standard bike must be so too. That is why I asked. It's not an insignificant detail, not if one is relying on the bike for essential transportation.
Menachem, I do appreciate the time you took to answer my questions, but with respect, I'm a very detail-specific person, I read very carefully, and Palenq did not specify the precise way in which the bike could be carried on the train.
My confusion stems precisely because I do research. First, I went to the source - Dutch rail, http://www.ns.nl/en/travellers/home - and read this:
<i> Bicycle Day Travel Card
Bicycles may be taken on the train during off-peak hours.
To do this you purchase a Bicycle Day Ttravel Card from the ticket machine.
A Bicycle Day Travel Card allows you to take a (folding) tandem, reclining bicycle or <b> disassembled racing bike on the train. </b>
A Bicycle Day Card is not necessary for a standard folding bicycle. Passengers may take standard folding bicycles on the train with them free of charge (provided they meet the terms and conditions) </i>
**************
Well, the need for a day card is obvious, since tourist rental bikes will not be folding bikes.
But it is less obvious to a first-time visitor how the bike is to be carried. The average tourist rental bike is not a reclining (by which I assume they mean a recumbent bike), nor a tandem folding or unfolding: the closest approximation is a racing bike - with the exception that the handlebars on a standard bike if anything protrude even more on a standard bike. So to the uninitiated, the train staff could arguably insist that if a racing bike must be disassembled, a standard bike must be so too. That is why I asked. It's not an insignificant detail, not if one is relying on the bike for essential transportation.
Dec 15th, 2013, 08:39 AM
#30
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<i>Sue_xx_yy on Dec 15, 13 at 11:48am
Well, the need for a day card is obvious, since tourist rental bikes will not be folding bikes.
But it is less obvious to a first-time visitor how the bike is to be carried.</i>
I have brought my Dutch bicycles on regular commuter trains in Holland several times. It is allowed in regular cars during off-peak periods, e.g. during the day and evenings. I stand with my bike in the entry way and keep it in hand away from the doors. Not disassembled. Not a problem.
Dutch bike handle bars are a bit wider than racer bikes. I don't know why the NS mentions them.
Not guaranteed but you can usually find a bike rental store in or near any decent sized train station in Holland. Rates are very reasonable.
Well, the need for a day card is obvious, since tourist rental bikes will not be folding bikes.
But it is less obvious to a first-time visitor how the bike is to be carried.</i>
I have brought my Dutch bicycles on regular commuter trains in Holland several times. It is allowed in regular cars during off-peak periods, e.g. during the day and evenings. I stand with my bike in the entry way and keep it in hand away from the doors. Not disassembled. Not a problem.
Dutch bike handle bars are a bit wider than racer bikes. I don't know why the NS mentions them.
Not guaranteed but you can usually find a bike rental store in or near any decent sized train station in Holland. Rates are very reasonable.
Dec 15th, 2013, 10:56 AM
#32
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where are you thinking of riding?
For a nice ride involving the countryside and some neat towns and going along a main canal - from Amsterdam head for the Amstel River and then go along it - passing a behemoth old windmill (in southern Amsterdam) and then ride through pastoral countryside to Abcoude, a nice small town with a famous Chinese Restaurant - a real palace of one - huge and thread your way thru bucolic country and past old castles back to the main canal and follow it to Breukelen (from which they say our Brooklyn gets its name) - a nice larger town from where you can continue onto Utrecht a few miles farther along this major canal or return to Amsterdam by train from Breukelen.
This route was part of the bike tours I led for a decade in Holland and everyone loved it - countryside, small towns, castles, main canal, field with cows - Holland in a nutshell and all on bike paths with easy to follow signs - get a good map from the VVV Tourist Office in Amsterdam or a book store and you can't go wrong.
For a nice ride involving the countryside and some neat towns and going along a main canal - from Amsterdam head for the Amstel River and then go along it - passing a behemoth old windmill (in southern Amsterdam) and then ride through pastoral countryside to Abcoude, a nice small town with a famous Chinese Restaurant - a real palace of one - huge and thread your way thru bucolic country and past old castles back to the main canal and follow it to Breukelen (from which they say our Brooklyn gets its name) - a nice larger town from where you can continue onto Utrecht a few miles farther along this major canal or return to Amsterdam by train from Breukelen.
This route was part of the bike tours I led for a decade in Holland and everyone loved it - countryside, small towns, castles, main canal, field with cows - Holland in a nutshell and all on bike paths with easy to follow signs - get a good map from the VVV Tourist Office in Amsterdam or a book store and you can't go wrong.
Dec 15th, 2013, 11:03 AM
#33
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https://maps.google.com/maps?q=abcou...&ved=0CJkBELYD
Here is a map of this really sweet and easy IME bike route I described above - From Amsterdam follow the Amstel to Oudekerk aan de Amstel - a nice old town now part of the Amsterdam conurbation and follow the bike signs (often 'toadstools' with directional arrows on them) to Abcoude - the across meadows and thru forests to Baambrugge and then head over to Lonersloot and the main MAIN canal you follow to Breukelen and Utrecht.
I think the Dutch countryside is neat but best experienced by biking thru it - along with zillions of Dutch who do so for both exercise and as a utilitarian means of going places.
To experience the real Dutch countryside hop on a bike!
MacBike in Amsterdam is one very reputable place to rent bikes and also get information maps with them - they also do bike tours, including the one, I believe, I describe above.
Here is a map of this really sweet and easy IME bike route I described above - From Amsterdam follow the Amstel to Oudekerk aan de Amstel - a nice old town now part of the Amsterdam conurbation and follow the bike signs (often 'toadstools' with directional arrows on them) to Abcoude - the across meadows and thru forests to Baambrugge and then head over to Lonersloot and the main MAIN canal you follow to Breukelen and Utrecht.
I think the Dutch countryside is neat but best experienced by biking thru it - along with zillions of Dutch who do so for both exercise and as a utilitarian means of going places.
To experience the real Dutch countryside hop on a bike!
MacBike in Amsterdam is one very reputable place to rent bikes and also get information maps with them - they also do bike tours, including the one, I believe, I describe above.
Dec 15th, 2013, 11:05 AM
#34
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http://www.amsterdam.info/transport/...ntals/macbike/
MacBike has four rental places in Amsterdam, including one at the main train station (Amsterdam Centraal). Helmets are rarely used in Holland however so I do not know if they supply helmets - did not a few years back but may now?
(The Dutch are so hard-headed they do not need helmets!)
MacBike has four rental places in Amsterdam, including one at the main train station (Amsterdam Centraal). Helmets are rarely used in Holland however so I do not know if they supply helmets - did not a few years back but may now?
(The Dutch are so hard-headed they do not need helmets!)
Dec 15th, 2013, 11:09 AM
#35
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I never disassemble my road bike when i use trains. However, I used to have a recumbent that came apart and so was technically a folder. This confused the hell out of train personnel. I would argue it was a folding bike (free!!) they would argue it was a recumbent (needs ticket) I've argued in trains all over the Netherlands, always the same thing. "but it's a folding bike". "no, it's a recumbent." "But but.... it's a recumbent that .... FOLDS!"
Ah, Dutch regulations.
PalenQ. If someone forced me to visit the countryside, I would for instance do the 11 cities tour in Friesland, or go boating there. Or in Weerribben. Or visit the little towns on the river IJssel, or Drive to Schokland, an island in the middle of reclaimed land and then take a sailing klipper to Enkhuizen. Or do an overnighter to one of the Dutch islands.
Ah, Dutch regulations.
PalenQ. If someone forced me to visit the countryside, I would for instance do the 11 cities tour in Friesland, or go boating there. Or in Weerribben. Or visit the little towns on the river IJssel, or Drive to Schokland, an island in the middle of reclaimed land and then take a sailing klipper to Enkhuizen. Or do an overnighter to one of the Dutch islands.
Dec 15th, 2013, 11:25 AM
#36
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All of those do sound delightful - I have visited Texel and would love to do Terschelling (sp?). with such limited time as a week I think it would be all countryside and a few days in Amsterdam coming and going or no countryside and the famous cities.
Dec 15th, 2013, 12:37 PM
#37
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Terschelling is pretty involved, travel-wise. But a day's car rental would get you to Schokland, Urk, Kampen and Zwolle. All very much off the beaten path and beautiful, historical cities, with great museums (The Fundatie in Zwolle, Schokland world heritage site, the Ships' Archeology Museum in Lelystad. In some respects, that area is the most Dutch of landscapes: one the rational engineers' vision of an agricultural landscape and a monumental feat of civil engineering. The other an old landscape with medieval roots along the most beautiful river in The Netherlands, the IJssel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRZ66PtYMGY
Schokland:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyrIZ9SWOmY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRZ66PtYMGY
Schokland:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyrIZ9SWOmY
Dec 15th, 2013, 01:43 PM
#38
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The OP has a car, and 7 days. Why not get out and explore the country?
There are hidden gems within a short journey of Amsterdam, many not easily reached by public transport. Taking a bike on the train extends the places one can visit, but a car extends that further.
Driving for an hour and you are in a completely different atmosphere.
Pal, I have never been to Florida, or NYC. I have no desire to visit either.
It is true I have been to Grand Canyon. I have also driven across the States, avoiding Interstates, have explored the PNW, Arizona and NewMexico, particularly the Sonoma desert, and have been to small towns that tourists never go near. I have a deep love for the United States and enjoy off the beaten track experiences. If I had the money I could happily spend my full 90 days visiting such states as Michigan, Iowa, Kansas. No problem at all. Sadly it will have to wait for a lottery win.
It is a shame most Fodorites prefer the well trodden path, and miss out on really exploring the countries they visit.
There are hidden gems within a short journey of Amsterdam, many not easily reached by public transport. Taking a bike on the train extends the places one can visit, but a car extends that further.
Driving for an hour and you are in a completely different atmosphere.
Pal, I have never been to Florida, or NYC. I have no desire to visit either.
It is true I have been to Grand Canyon. I have also driven across the States, avoiding Interstates, have explored the PNW, Arizona and NewMexico, particularly the Sonoma desert, and have been to small towns that tourists never go near. I have a deep love for the United States and enjoy off the beaten track experiences. If I had the money I could happily spend my full 90 days visiting such states as Michigan, Iowa, Kansas. No problem at all. Sadly it will have to wait for a lottery win.
It is a shame most Fodorites prefer the well trodden path, and miss out on really exploring the countries they visit.
Dec 15th, 2013, 02:56 PM
#39
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If they have a car it's a whole different thing - you would not want to waste time in cities where cars are useless so if you have a car the only reason to do so would be to explore the unique and in its town way tremendous countryside - otherwise having a car is foolish if wanting to visit the cities 99% of first-time tourists want to do - for whatever misguided reason!
Dec 15th, 2013, 03:25 PM
#40
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(Thank you OP for letting me butt in. I hope you are enjoying the conversations even if they are not wholly in line with your own needs.)
Palenq, thank you for all your suggestions. They are so intriguing I'm trying to figure out if I can add more time to our trip to do more cycling. Oh, and some time to do some sketching.
It started out with trying to find a way to see the maeslantkering barrier - specifically, the interpretive centre "het keringhuis" (don't ask me, my Dutch is limited to 'edam' and 'gouda').
http://www.keringhuis.nl/
Menachem suggested taking the fast ferry and while that sounds fun, and while one can doubtless 'see' the barrier from the fast ferry, the pier of 'lantong' is unfortunately on the south side of the waterway whereas the centre is on the north. The centre is between the train stop at Hook van Holland Haven and the stop at Massluis West. (Hope this link works.)
https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=het+ke...ed=0CAgQ_AUoAg
So while I was wary of finding a place to rent bikes way the heck out at Hoek van Holland, I knew for sure there were bikes to be rented in Delft. We'd pop them on the Sprinter as far as Hook van Holland Haven, and then ride the 9 km to the centre.
I looked into one day car rentals, but especially if one has to pick up on the weekends, they are both awkward and expensive to arrange.
Palenq, thank you for all your suggestions. They are so intriguing I'm trying to figure out if I can add more time to our trip to do more cycling. Oh, and some time to do some sketching.
It started out with trying to find a way to see the maeslantkering barrier - specifically, the interpretive centre "het keringhuis" (don't ask me, my Dutch is limited to 'edam' and 'gouda').
http://www.keringhuis.nl/
Menachem suggested taking the fast ferry and while that sounds fun, and while one can doubtless 'see' the barrier from the fast ferry, the pier of 'lantong' is unfortunately on the south side of the waterway whereas the centre is on the north. The centre is between the train stop at Hook van Holland Haven and the stop at Massluis West. (Hope this link works.)
https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=het+ke...ed=0CAgQ_AUoAg
So while I was wary of finding a place to rent bikes way the heck out at Hoek van Holland, I knew for sure there were bikes to be rented in Delft. We'd pop them on the Sprinter as far as Hook van Holland Haven, and then ride the 9 km to the centre.
I looked into one day car rentals, but especially if one has to pick up on the weekends, they are both awkward and expensive to arrange.
