Wekiva

This evening I'm jumping in and trying to compare the cost of a Swiss Pass vs. individual tickets for travel in bernese oberland. Once I'm done with pulling the data I'll post so someone that is smarter can make sure I'm on the right track.

A few questions have come up as I try to compare using sbb.ch:
1. When I look at the cost of the Murren to Schilthorn trip it states it's 72 or 36 depending if you have a pass. From what I understand if I get a Swiss Pass and free family card then the kids are free (oldest is 14). If we don't get a swiss pass are the kids still free under a parent or do they then have to pay the 36 while we pay 72? Can you only get the free family card if you get a pass?

2. On a similar note. When I look at the single ticket cost for a trip from Lauterbrunnen to Murren it says it costs 10.40. If I have a family card are the kids free or do I have to purchase them a ticket? I don't see a place where kids are discounted on this leg (or free if they're your kids).

3. I understand that once you leave Interlaken and head up into the bernese oberland area that there are extra fees you must pay if you only have a eurorail pass. Where can I find what these extra fees are? I would think these fees would apply on the day we arrive in Murren and on the day we leave Murren. One the days we're there I would assume that when you buy a ticket for travel in the area that it includes all associated extra fees.

I think with this info I'll be able to move forward with the comparison.

Thanks a lot!

Wekiva

ttt for the Monday crowd

Wekiva

I'll give this one more try for the evening crowd.

swandav2000

Hi Wekiva,

I'm sorry you're having so much trouble finding good answers to this question. I don't use the Swiss Pass, so my knowledge is pretty much hearsay or website notes. But this is what I *think.*

Yes, the Family Card is free if you buy any kind of Swiss Pass, and yes, children under 16 years old travel for free when they travel with a parent. I believe you can buy the Family Card if you don't have a Swiss Pass, and it costs 20 chf per child. I tried to look this up but couldn't find a note that says that.

Sorry, I have no idea how a Eurail pass works; I only know travel is free until Interlaken.

You may want to also take a look at the Half Fare Card, which gives you half off practically everything that moves in Switzerland for one month; it costs 99 chf. If you buy the HFC, the Family Card is also free.

You can find more information (and e-mail your questions except those for the Eurail Pass) at

www.swisstravelsystem.com

Have fun!

s

Wekiva

Swan...thanks for the reply. I've looked quite a few places and am having trouble nailing down these answers. There are so many options it can be rather difficult to figure it all out.

I'll check out that web site.

Thanks again.

Suja

I live in Switzerland so I haven't used the Swiss Pass but almost all my visitors (and there have been plenty have used it.
Yes, children under 16 are free.
If you get a half-fare card and a family pass as Swandav advices, the kids still travel free.
If you buy individual tickets, you travel full fare and the kids pay the reduced rates. It almost always makes sense to get a pass.
With a pass, you get free entry to all the museums / castles which is a great value.
The Swiss pass also covers rides on the lakes (though its winter and not that inviting . For summer visitors, that is a lovely option.

You need to work out how often you'll be travelling to see which one offers a better value for money.

PalenQ

Swiss Passes pass 100% beyond Interlaken-Ost to Wengen, Murren, Gimmelwald and Grindelwald - beyond those places you get a discount - 25% above Grindelwald and Wengen to the Jungfraujoch station - the highest in Europe but 50% from Murren to Schilthorn/Piz Gloria. Kids under 16 never need pay a dime with the Family Pass nor need a ticket is my understanding. And for aerial gondolas in Interlaken area the pass gives 50% off (again kids under 16 always free)

The rule is for Swiss Passes it seems that if the train, aerial cableway, funicular, lake boat, etc connects real villages or towns the Swiss Pass then covers it 100% - but if the conveyance is just going to a mountain top the pass gives 50% discount (except Jungfraujoch above Wengen and Grindelwald only 25% - only exception I know of.

For loads of info on Swiss trains and transports and passes I always spotlight these fab sites: www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com (this is one place IME you can call and talk to an expert with such questions - Byron seems to know everything - and www.ricksteves.com

Swiss Passes the past several years have often been significantly cheaper bought in the U.S. than in Switzerland but this is not always the case so compare prices in CHF - Swiss Francs at www.swisstravelsystem.com - another site with lots of great info and links and those thru U.S. agents - add 3% to Swiss franc prices if you credit card as typical charges that for any foreign transaction.

PalenQ

Oh and about Eurailpasses passing above Interlaken (south of Interlaken and into the hills) - they get a flat 25% off all trains I believe - definitely the Jungfraujoch train and trains from Interlaken to Wengen and Grindelwald and Lauterbrunnen. Not sure about 25% off up to Murren and the Schilthorn. But as with a discount and not 100% coverage the use of a discount does not use a day on a flexipass - just that your pass must be valid for the overall time limit - we are talking about Eurailpasses valid in Switzerland here and not the Swiss Pass - Swiss Flexipasses get 50% off on nearly everything that moves in Switzerland on days in between the use ofg 100% covered days but when the third or fourth, etc 100% coverage days are used the pass terminates totally. A 3-day Swiss Flexipass is a logical choice because at 50% off the 4th day you would rarely break even with buying a 4-day flexipass over a 3=day pass.

Wekiva

Thanks for the replies. It's pretty difficult to try and price all of our trips individually to be able to compare to the Swiss Pass. Currently our itinerary is as follows:

Thursday
Train from Paris to Murren

Friday
Lift up/down Schilthorn from Murren
Lift/Train to Lauterbrunnen
Lift/Train back to Murren

Saturday
Train/Lift to Wengen
Train to Schynige Platte hike
Train/Lift to Murren

Sunday
Train to Venice

So...is that worth buying a Swiss pass for my family of 4 or should we get individual tickets. I think it may be cheaper to simply do all of that individually vs the Swiss Pass. Tonight I called Eurorail and the cost of the Swiss Pass will be around $700 for first class.

When I talked to Eurorail they recommended I get a 2 country pass to cover France and Italy (destinations before/after Switzerland) and then get the 4 day swiss pass to cover the cost of our train travel in Switzerland. It's not really fair to compare the full $700 against the individual tickets in the B.O. area since part of that will cover our arrival into Switzerland from Paris and part of our departure from Switzerland to Venice.

I can see where people just give up and buy the passes.

swandav2000

Hi again,

Yes, I agree that it is difficult to make this decision. These days, I always get the HFC, but before I did that, I priced out all my journeys and then compared them to the various passes. I always had to do a spreadsheet to keep track of all the combinations and options, and I really hate doing that! The HFC always came out to be the cheapest choice, but usually by less than 100 chf.

You can get all the fares from two sites; first is the Swiss rail site

www.rail.ch

and then for the railroads and lifts in the Jungfrau region, use

www.jungfraubahn.ch

Good luck!

s

kybourbon

Railsaver.com might help you figure it out. You can enter your itinerary, then where it says "always railpasses" change the drop down box to say "if less expensive". It will then tell you which pass is best.

http://www.railsaver.com/

PalenQ

Forget the advice about buying the France-Italy pass - you are not nearly traveling enough for that. But the Swiss Pass is to me a no-brainer simply because you are basing in Murren and Swiss Pass cover 100% the travel up to Murren and back - even at 50% off on the Half-Fare card those trips could be pricey -a 4-consecutive-day pass is a great deal - book a PREM fare on ww.voyages-sncf.com (French rail site) to say Basel or Geneva and use your Swiss pass then to go onto Murren, via Bern and Interlaken. and then use the pass to reach the Italian border and then just buy a regular ticket to Venice from Domodossola (first Italian station) - buy the Italian ticket at any station in Switzerland so you need not get off the train in Domodossola. But the France-Italy pass IMO is just not justified for your plans and any recommendation to buy one is just taking advantage of novice rail travelers. But the Swiss Pass would cover all your transport in Switzerland except the trips to mountain tops like Murren to Schilthorn which it would give 50% on - ditto for Schynige Platte I believe.

Wekiva

PalenQ

I really appreciate you taking the time to help me think through this. As I've been reading your posts over the last year as we started thinking about this trip I was hoping I'd be able to connect with you once I started to finalize our plans.

I went to the French web site you mentioned above and also to Trenitalia and priced all of our legs individually. I chose 1st class since that's the pricing I had received for the eurorail pass. Both sites seemed to have a high and low version of first class (refundable vs non refundable?) so the numbers I'm giving you are those two types of 1st class. I'm also giving you the $$ equivalent of the euro. These are for a family of 4 with 2 kids under 12.

Paris to Basel is $380 or $600

Domodossola to Venice is $230 or $330

Venice to Rome is $250 or $370

Rome to airport is around $40 it seems...not real clear on this one

So the total using individual prices for those 2 web sites for 1st class is a range from $900 to $1340.

Our quote for the France/Italy pass for 4 legs (which would also cover our trip to airport) is around $1100. Now there are some added costs including $30 for call center booking and shipping/handling (I like to talk to someone). They have also added on about $350 in seat reservation fees which brings the total of the pass to around $1500.

When I compare the $1500 fee against the straight ticket purchase above ($900 to $1340) are there any other fees they add on to the individual ticket prices or is the 900 to 1340 the final price. It seems the pass vs the tickets are about the same but the seat reservation fees are what make the pass more expensive. But wouldn't it be good to have reservations on some of these longer trips? I recall when traveling on a very similar route in 1999 that most of the trains were totally full and we were glad we had reservations. This time we add the stress of having small children along...it seems it would make trying to have us all sit together a real challenge.

Does it seem that I've made a fair comparison...or is there something I'm still missing. Do you see the real difference being the $350 seat reservation fee basically?

Thanks so much PalenQ

PalenQ

Wekiva - I will digest this later but you say "I like to talk to someone" then I would say call Byron at www.budgeteuropetravel.com - 800-441-2387 who I have bought railpasses from for years and can attest to his answering any questions expertly even if you are not buying anything yet - they work thru RailEurope but also do not have all the charges RE does - but the key thing is you can talk to someone who is an expert IME. For a family of 4 I certainly do endorse first class and that may change the efficacy of a pass as those passes cost relatively little more in first class over 2nd class - and as I always say there is a big big difference between classes, esp for a family of 4. Again I have to run now but will return and try to digest your above post as I am sure others will do. In Switzerland of course your kids get a free Family Pass with the Swiss Pass and they never ever pay a dime to ride anything you do - even if you have to pay 50% off like to Schilthorn.

kybourbon

Some of your pricing seems off to me.

>>>Rome to airport is around $40 it seems...not real clear on this one<<<

There is no 1st class on the Leonardo Express train from Rome to the airport. The price for the airport train is 14€ (about $18.50) or 56€ for 4 (I don't believe there is a discount for your children on this particular train). You can book a limo service to take you to the airport cheaper than you can take the train. Taxis are also an option as they are a set fee (currently 40€ for 4 people including luggage although they have requested a price increase). Rome Shuttle Limousine would be 50€ for your family and would pick you up at your hotel. Otherwise, you would have to pay transport (taxi?) from your hotel to the train station and also pay for the train.
http://www.romeshuttlelimousine.com/...t-transfer.php

For other travel in Italy, your family would qualify for the Famiglia discount (20%-50% discount depending on travel - times/trains). For Venice/Rome 1st class, the price would be 257.40€ (about $340)for the family.

>>>Both sites seemed to have a high and low version of first class (refundable vs non refundable?) <<<

The flessible rate allows you to change your ticket (click more info next to each fare class for details). You pay 25% extra on the ticket over the base fares.

PalenQ

The flessible rate allows you to change your ticket (click more info next to each fare class for details). You pay 25% extra on the ticket over the base fares.>

Some folks want total flexibility to decide on the spur of the moment which trains to take and some do not. Those that don't obviously should go the non-refundable non-changeable lower rates - a nice thing I do like about a railpass is that I can use it on any train in Italy - having of course to pay the 10 euros or $14 supplement/fee for a passholder reservation - I have always been able to get on any train I want and usually just book as I go along the day before or so. So a pass to me should be judged both on overall economics and whether or not you need flexibility, which for some is priceless.

There is no 1st class on the Leonardo Express train from Rome to the airport.>

Well you could say it has only first class as you would need a first class railpass to use a railpass on it - so if just using a pass on that the extra day on a pass in first class would surely be more than $19 so there is one day you do not want to use a pass on.

kybourbon

PQ - Please read the thread. The OP wanted to know the difference between the 1st class fares on Trenitalia and specifically asked that. Notice the question mark. I was answering his question.
>>>Both sites seemed to have a high and low version of first class (refundable vs non refundable?)<<<

The sites he was referring to were Trenitalia and Sncf, not a rail pass. He is trying to compare ticket prices to a pass to see if he even wants a pass. Why shouldn't he have the info he is asking for?

>>>Some folks want total flexibility to decide on the spur of the moment which trains to take and some do not.<<<

Hence, the flessible rate on Trenitalia. Flexibility exists even without passes if you want to pay 25% extra.

>>>>Well you could say it has only first class as you would need a first class railpass to use a railpass on it - so if just using a pass on that the extra day on a pass in first class would surely be more than $19 so there is one day you do not want to use a pass on.<<<

You could say anything you want, but doesn't make it so. There is no class selection on the Leonardo, no seat reservations, no services. Similar to riding the subway - grab a seat if you can, if not, stand. The OP seemed interested in 1st class travel only. It doesn't exist on the Leonardo or many other R trains in Italy. It's all cattle class. That's why I suggested the limo which is cheaper and door-to-door.

wekiva - If you haven't tried the railsaver link above, you should. It will evaluate your choices and tell you which pass or if you are better off buying point-to-point (leave off the Swiss portion if you've already decided on the Swiss Pass).

>>>When I compare the $1500 fee against the straight ticket purchase above ($900 to $1340) are there any other fees they add on to the individual ticket prices or is the 900 to 1340 the final price. It seems the pass vs the tickets are about the same but the seat reservation fees are what make the pass more expensive. But wouldn't it be good to have reservations on some of these longer trips?<<<

The ticket prices you see on Trenitalia include your seat reservations so you would have seats on all of your trains. Trenitalia has mandatory seat reservations on all but R trains so the tickets are priced with seats. You cannot book seats on R trains and most are just one class, but there are a few routes that will offer both classes (still no seat reservations though).

Trenitalia usually doesn't process US credit cards, but there have been a few people report success lately (Visa pops up most often as successful).

I'm not sure how accurate RailEurope's seat reservation prices are as they tend to mark things up a bit. For Italy, seats on AV/ES/ESCity,EC are 10€ each. On ICPlus and IC trains they are 3€ each.

>>>Our quote for the France/Italy pass for 4 legs (which would also cover our trip to airport) is around $1100. Now there are some added costs including $30 for call center booking and shipping/handling (I like to talk to someone). They have also added on about $350 in seat reservation fees which brings the total of the pass to around $1500.<<<

I think you only looked at the 1st cl regular France/Italy passes. There is also a 1st cl saver pass (just requires 2+ people traveling together). Click the saver tab, instead of the adult tab. The price for your family would be $914 for the 1st cl saver pass. You would still have to pay a mailing fee, but you can purchase your seat reservations in
Europe for the prices I stated above.

http://www.raileurope.com/rail-ticke...d-pricing.html

Wekiva

PQ and KY..thanks for all your advice. I'm going to check those links and also call Byron in the next few days.

One question I have is about seat availability if we wait to buy point to point tickets when we're there. An example is for the first main train leg from Paris to Basel and on into Murren. We're actually traveling with another family so our group is a total of 4 adults and 4 children. Wouldn't we have trouble getting that many seats together if we didn't have advance reservations? We want to leave around 8 in the morning and I see trains go from Paris to Interlaken about once an hour. There are only about 2 trains that fit our time frame.

I'm probably over analyzing this whole thing but I've got time to ponder it so I'm trying to be thorough. I'm can see for those that travel more often (and in smaller groups) there would be advantages to waiting until you're there to arrange for train travel. I just am not sure we should wait that long.

PalenQ

I sincerely consider kybourbon a Fodor treasure - such an expertise on Trenitalia's rather Byzantine fare structures and especially for keeping up to date on the always in flux it seems fare structures and special deals. And again I sincerely appreciate his/her posts, from which I glean a lot of info. I think what we both have in common our trying to give the best possible and most practical advice on Italian trains and fares.

Please a toast to ky bourbon - in all sincereity.

PalenQ

One question I have is about seat availability if we wait to buy point to point tickets when we're there. An example is for the first main train leg from Paris to Basel and on into Murren. We're actually traveling with another family so our group is a total of 4 adults and 4 children. Wouldn't we have trouble getting that many seats together if we didn't have advance reservations?>

IME I have rarely had any problems getting seat reservations, mandated on TGV trains to Switzerland once in Paris - but I try to do it as soon as possible. Especially in first class you would rarely if ever IME have trouble booking four seats at least adjoining each other if not in a block of four, which should usually be possible. So in first class this is much more probable - and actually if you have a pass you have the same problem - getting the mandated seat reservations once there - to be squeeky-clean sure make those reservations if and when you buy a pass covering France or buy those tickets ahead of time if point to point, either thru www.voyages-sncf.com (not always the easiest site to get to actually work) or thru agents in the U.S. Actually if you have a Swiss Pass I believe there is a passholder 2 fare of some kind of discount on Paris to Geneva, Lausanne or Basel trains - ask someone like Byron about that. But IME in first class at least you should have little problem booking seats either with a pass or when buying a ticket (in which case seat reservations are included in the ticket price). Even ask about Family cubicles that do exist on some of these trains perhaps - for those I would try to book well in advance.