8 days vacation to Switzerland & Austria
May 26th, 2017, 09:52 AM
#21
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ns .. Has any tried booking with Airbnb for stay in Europe>
Many many have on Fodor's and generally pleased.
There are two sides to every story and whether Airbnb knowlingly lists illegal rentals depends on what story you read.
Many many have on Fodor's and generally pleased.
There are two sides to every story and whether Airbnb knowlingly lists illegal rentals depends on what story you read.
May 26th, 2017, 11:13 AM
#22
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Hi, We did an Austria and Switzerland trip over 10 nights 5 nights in each country and that worked well for us. Take a look at my travel blog here for ideas.
https://www.diyfamilytravels.com/category/austria/
https://www.diyfamilytravels.com/category/switzerland/
We loved Salzburg and Wengen in the Bernese Oberland. Actually all of Austria and Switzerland was beautiful.
https://www.diyfamilytravels.com/category/austria/
https://www.diyfamilytravels.com/category/switzerland/
We loved Salzburg and Wengen in the Bernese Oberland. Actually all of Austria and Switzerland was beautiful.
May 27th, 2017, 01:39 AM
#23
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Dogeared on May 26, 17 at 7:14pm
Before using Airbnb, you might want to decide if you wish to support a business that KNOWINGLY lists illegal rentals.
http://insideairbnb.com/
This is the reason I'm still reluctant to book on Airbnb but looking for some travelers opinion who hasve already tired it in Europe..
Before using Airbnb, you might want to decide if you wish to support a business that KNOWINGLY lists illegal rentals.
http://insideairbnb.com/
This is the reason I'm still reluctant to book on Airbnb but looking for some travelers opinion who hasve already tired it in Europe..
May 27th, 2017, 01:42 AM
#24
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Mnag I have planned exactly what I have mentioned but rather than going to Munich we are going to salzbring and day trips from there,, the. Last night will be in Munich so as to get enough time to see the places and enjoy at least a day..
May 27th, 2017, 07:19 AM
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PalenQ, there is no doubt as to whether Airbnb knowingly allow illegal listings. They have publicly acknowledged that they know many listings are illegal.
What they do is fall back on the 'legal position' and state that they are just a listing site and therefore they are not legally responsible for what someone lists on their site. Nor are they legally required to vet their listings. In other words, they are legally in the clear and don't have to take a MORAL position.
That's the same as someone who says, I didn't steal the car, I just hook up the person who stole it with someone who wants to rent a car. The person who then rents that stolen car just says, 'I didn't steal it either, I just want a car to drive. It's not my job to make sure it wasn't stolen, I assume the agent who connected me to the car did that.'
Well, Airbnb (the agent) doesn't make sure of anything folks. So if you now KNOW that they don't check to see if it is a legal rental and also KNOW that many of the listings are in fact illegal listings, who is now responsible for making sure you don't participate in an illegal activity? Well, in fact, the legal answer is YOU are. Get stopped driving a stolen car and try telling the cops, 'I just rented it, I didn't steal it.' and see how far that gets you with them.
I'm waiting for someone to have some kind of serious incident/accident or something while staying in an illegal rental booked through Airbnb and see what happens with the civil suit that then results.
ie. 'I got electrocuted by a faulty outlet in the rental. As a result, I fell down and ended up quadraplegic. I am suing the rental owner; Airbnb for listing it; the city of X for allowing it; the Fodor's member who told me I should rent this way.
What they do is fall back on the 'legal position' and state that they are just a listing site and therefore they are not legally responsible for what someone lists on their site. Nor are they legally required to vet their listings. In other words, they are legally in the clear and don't have to take a MORAL position.
That's the same as someone who says, I didn't steal the car, I just hook up the person who stole it with someone who wants to rent a car. The person who then rents that stolen car just says, 'I didn't steal it either, I just want a car to drive. It's not my job to make sure it wasn't stolen, I assume the agent who connected me to the car did that.'
Well, Airbnb (the agent) doesn't make sure of anything folks. So if you now KNOW that they don't check to see if it is a legal rental and also KNOW that many of the listings are in fact illegal listings, who is now responsible for making sure you don't participate in an illegal activity? Well, in fact, the legal answer is YOU are. Get stopped driving a stolen car and try telling the cops, 'I just rented it, I didn't steal it.' and see how far that gets you with them.
I'm waiting for someone to have some kind of serious incident/accident or something while staying in an illegal rental booked through Airbnb and see what happens with the civil suit that then results.
ie. 'I got electrocuted by a faulty outlet in the rental. As a result, I fell down and ended up quadraplegic. I am suing the rental owner; Airbnb for listing it; the city of X for allowing it; the Fodor's member who told me I should rent this way.
May 27th, 2017, 09:05 AM
#26
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I have taken trips to Europe the last two years. If you want apartments, booking.com and homeaway.com also offer them.
For both trips, I did compare lodgings on airb&b and homeaway and the price difference was not significant between booking.com and airb&b. Homeaway generally appeared to be less. I also found a number of the same properties registered on at least two of the sites. I also checked hotels and other lodgings on the other big sites (travelocity, kayak, etc) but just did not have as much luck.
Where possible, I chose booking.com because of their policies. If you arrive at your lodgings, and it either doesn't exist or is significantly different than advertised, booking.com has a number you can call in Europe and they will help you find a different property and even reimburse for your taxi to get there.
I had issues with one property--the taxi contracted by the lodging owner brought us to the wrong place. I did call, and booking.com patched us through to the landlord who cleared it up. So I did use this feature once and it worked.
For both trips, I did compare lodgings on airb&b and homeaway and the price difference was not significant between booking.com and airb&b. Homeaway generally appeared to be less. I also found a number of the same properties registered on at least two of the sites. I also checked hotels and other lodgings on the other big sites (travelocity, kayak, etc) but just did not have as much luck.
Where possible, I chose booking.com because of their policies. If you arrive at your lodgings, and it either doesn't exist or is significantly different than advertised, booking.com has a number you can call in Europe and they will help you find a different property and even reimburse for your taxi to get there.
I had issues with one property--the taxi contracted by the lodging owner brought us to the wrong place. I did call, and booking.com patched us through to the landlord who cleared it up. So I did use this feature once and it worked.
May 27th, 2017, 11:25 AM
#28
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Palen:
"wonder why they do not just run the sleeping cars all the way - a hassle to get up at 6and change trains"
No problem: you can do it without change by leaving the sleeping car at Salzburg at 2.30am
"wonder why they do not just run the sleeping cars all the way - a hassle to get up at 6and change trains"
No problem: you can do it without change by leaving the sleeping car at Salzburg at 2.30am
May 30th, 2017, 07:02 AM
#30
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PalenQ, you can read more about it here:
http://insideairbnb.com/
And here:http://www.airbnbhell.com
Airbnb started out as a fine idea. Rent out an airbed (hence the name) on your living room floor or spare room, when an event in your city meant there were no hotel rooms to be found. That was what the founders actually did to begin with.
However, like anything, abuse doesn't take long to rear its head. So when people saw money was to be made, they started renting all year round, not just a spare room or their apartment when they themselves were going to be out of town etc. They started buying or renting properties for the sole purpose of renting them out year round. Many listings are one of multiple properties someone has listed. The issue is not the homeowner renting a room occasionally, it is the 'investors' buying/renting single/multiple properties and in effect turning them into hotels but without having to comply with all the laws/regulations that a hotel must comply with.
There are lawsuits and local authorities are attempting to control them but you are talking about a business that is now on track to generate 3 BILLION $ in profits by 2020.
http://fortune.com/2017/02/15/airbnb-profits/
That kind of money buys a lot of lawyers and a lot of clout. It isn't about 'sharing' as it originally was, it's all about MONEY.
Nor should the traveller be given a pass on responsibility any more than the greedy 'investor property owner' should. The traveller regardless of whatever they say about, 'more space, being able to cook, etc.' are PRIMARILY attracted for one major reason and that is that it is CHEAPER than hotels generally speaking. So the traveller finds it easy to ignore the downsides that affect OTHER people and book with Airbnb based on their ME first attitude. What's good for ME, never mind anyone else.
http://insideairbnb.com/
And here:http://www.airbnbhell.com
Airbnb started out as a fine idea. Rent out an airbed (hence the name) on your living room floor or spare room, when an event in your city meant there were no hotel rooms to be found. That was what the founders actually did to begin with.
However, like anything, abuse doesn't take long to rear its head. So when people saw money was to be made, they started renting all year round, not just a spare room or their apartment when they themselves were going to be out of town etc. They started buying or renting properties for the sole purpose of renting them out year round. Many listings are one of multiple properties someone has listed. The issue is not the homeowner renting a room occasionally, it is the 'investors' buying/renting single/multiple properties and in effect turning them into hotels but without having to comply with all the laws/regulations that a hotel must comply with.
There are lawsuits and local authorities are attempting to control them but you are talking about a business that is now on track to generate 3 BILLION $ in profits by 2020.
http://fortune.com/2017/02/15/airbnb-profits/
That kind of money buys a lot of lawyers and a lot of clout. It isn't about 'sharing' as it originally was, it's all about MONEY.
Nor should the traveller be given a pass on responsibility any more than the greedy 'investor property owner' should. The traveller regardless of whatever they say about, 'more space, being able to cook, etc.' are PRIMARILY attracted for one major reason and that is that it is CHEAPER than hotels generally speaking. So the traveller finds it easy to ignore the downsides that affect OTHER people and book with Airbnb based on their ME first attitude. What's good for ME, never mind anyone else.
May 30th, 2017, 10:21 AM
#31
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Don't throw baby out with bathwater and citing biased sources is rather disingenous -city of Paris reached official accords with airbnb last year - they must be doing something right.
Two sides to every story!
Two sides to every story!
May 30th, 2017, 03:30 PM
#32
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Dogeared said (rather dogmatically in my opinion)
<< The traveller regardless of whatever they say about, 'more space, being able to cook, etc.' are PRIMARILY attracted for one major reason and that is that it is CHEAPER than hotels generally speaking. So the traveller finds it easy to ignore the downsides that affect OTHER people and book with Airbnb based on their ME first attitude. What's good for ME, never mind anyone else.>>
There are a heap of reasons to select an apartment against a hotel. If travelling with kids, an apartment works better. If one wants to entertain friends for dinner and cook for them, a hotel kettle won’t cut it. If one does not need the facilities provided by a hotel, such as parking, valet, room service, housekeeping, concierge, breakfast, elevators, lobbies whether luxurious or otherwise, then other options for accomodation will be more attractive.
We returned last week after spending five weeks in Venice, staying, yes, in an apartment. It was via VRBO rather that AirBnB, but the concept is the same. We paid the tourist tax, and our passports were copied, so chances are the rental was legal.
I think that you engage with the city and its population in a different way when you stay there longer, and a five week stay in a hotel, while affordable, would drive us stir crazy. If you are staying in a hotel, you can’t buy and cook octopus from the Rialto, cook agretti bought from the San Barnaba vegetable barge, drink sfuso, bulk wine, from Agricola Borga in Calle Avogaria in Dorsoduro. There are a whole bunch of options that are not possible when staying in a hotel.
Saying that people who stay in apartments are too mean to afford hotels is like saying that people who sleep in a tent are too mean to buy an RV. Stupid.
<< The traveller regardless of whatever they say about, 'more space, being able to cook, etc.' are PRIMARILY attracted for one major reason and that is that it is CHEAPER than hotels generally speaking. So the traveller finds it easy to ignore the downsides that affect OTHER people and book with Airbnb based on their ME first attitude. What's good for ME, never mind anyone else.>>
There are a heap of reasons to select an apartment against a hotel. If travelling with kids, an apartment works better. If one wants to entertain friends for dinner and cook for them, a hotel kettle won’t cut it. If one does not need the facilities provided by a hotel, such as parking, valet, room service, housekeeping, concierge, breakfast, elevators, lobbies whether luxurious or otherwise, then other options for accomodation will be more attractive.
We returned last week after spending five weeks in Venice, staying, yes, in an apartment. It was via VRBO rather that AirBnB, but the concept is the same. We paid the tourist tax, and our passports were copied, so chances are the rental was legal.
I think that you engage with the city and its population in a different way when you stay there longer, and a five week stay in a hotel, while affordable, would drive us stir crazy. If you are staying in a hotel, you can’t buy and cook octopus from the Rialto, cook agretti bought from the San Barnaba vegetable barge, drink sfuso, bulk wine, from Agricola Borga in Calle Avogaria in Dorsoduro. There are a whole bunch of options that are not possible when staying in a hotel.
Saying that people who stay in apartments are too mean to afford hotels is like saying that people who sleep in a tent are too mean to buy an RV. Stupid.
May 31st, 2017, 07:47 AM
#33
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Saying that people who stay in apartments are too mean to afford hotels is like saying that people who sleep in a tent are too mean to buy an RV. Stupid.>
Yes I camped Europe for years by car, bike and train and always, when younger, preferred camping and being with ordinary Europeans.
Yes I camped Europe for years by car, bike and train and always, when younger, preferred camping and being with ordinary Europeans.
May 31st, 2017, 07:51 AM
#34
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PalenQ, I don't think I am 'throwing out the baby with the bathwater' when there are only 112 homes registered with the city of Paris for seasonal rentals out of 60,000 listed on Airbnb. Yes, that's right, 60,000.
Now to be fair, someone renting a room for less than 120 days per year does not need to register if it is their PRIMARY residence. All secondary residences must be approved for seasonal rental. But any way you want to split the numbers, you cannot get from 60,000 down to only 112 homes being registered for seasonal rentals PalenQ. It's not me that is 'throwing out the baby with the bathwater'.
The city of Paris did NOT reach 'accords' with Airbnb, what they did was lay down the rules under which people could legally rent out in the city. Airbnb did NOT agree to make sure all those listing on their website comply with those requirements. All Airbnb ever agree to do is inform their users of the rules. ie. 'if you list on Airbnb, it is your responsibility to make sure you comply with local laws.'
If you want to call that reaching an 'accord' that's up to you but to me it's simply covering Airbnb's butt legally. 'We are not responsible for what someone lists on our site, we have told them to comply with the law.'
It is not hard to find current info on the situation.
https://parispropertygroup.com/blog/...-relationship/
Peter_S_Aus, I agree there are 'a heap of reasons' to rent an apartment other than to save money. However, no matter how many other reasons there are, they do not add up to the number of rentals that are done based on MONEY.
Let's suppose any percentage you care to suggest are renting for what you would consider acceptable reasons other than just saving money. Do you think that percentage is anywhere near approaching more than say 50%? Or will you admit that in fact, the majority of rentals are all about the money.
Let's even say 100% of people who rent are not about just the money. Give me one reason that is acceptable to you for someone renting an ILLEGAL rental. No one is complaining about legal rentals, it is the ILLEGAL rentals that are the issue.
I too would not want to stay in a hotel room for 5 weeks. But I understand that it is MY responsibility to make sure I am not contributing to the demand for ILLEGAL rentals. It is my responsibility to do the due diligence necessary (and however time consuming and onerous that might be) to make sure I rent a LEGAL rental.
The fact is that the vast majority of people renting through Airbnb et al, are not staying 5 weeks, are not doing the due diligence and ARE renting ILLEGAL rentals. However many acceptable reasons you want to name for renting an apartment rather than a hotel room, doesn't change that at all. The vast majority are indeed 'too mean' as you put it. NO ONE can justify an ILLEGAL rental. But there are plenty of people who can not care if it is illegal as long as they save MONEY.
Now to be fair, someone renting a room for less than 120 days per year does not need to register if it is their PRIMARY residence. All secondary residences must be approved for seasonal rental. But any way you want to split the numbers, you cannot get from 60,000 down to only 112 homes being registered for seasonal rentals PalenQ. It's not me that is 'throwing out the baby with the bathwater'.
The city of Paris did NOT reach 'accords' with Airbnb, what they did was lay down the rules under which people could legally rent out in the city. Airbnb did NOT agree to make sure all those listing on their website comply with those requirements. All Airbnb ever agree to do is inform their users of the rules. ie. 'if you list on Airbnb, it is your responsibility to make sure you comply with local laws.'
If you want to call that reaching an 'accord' that's up to you but to me it's simply covering Airbnb's butt legally. 'We are not responsible for what someone lists on our site, we have told them to comply with the law.'
It is not hard to find current info on the situation.
https://parispropertygroup.com/blog/...-relationship/
Peter_S_Aus, I agree there are 'a heap of reasons' to rent an apartment other than to save money. However, no matter how many other reasons there are, they do not add up to the number of rentals that are done based on MONEY.
Let's suppose any percentage you care to suggest are renting for what you would consider acceptable reasons other than just saving money. Do you think that percentage is anywhere near approaching more than say 50%? Or will you admit that in fact, the majority of rentals are all about the money.
Let's even say 100% of people who rent are not about just the money. Give me one reason that is acceptable to you for someone renting an ILLEGAL rental. No one is complaining about legal rentals, it is the ILLEGAL rentals that are the issue.
I too would not want to stay in a hotel room for 5 weeks. But I understand that it is MY responsibility to make sure I am not contributing to the demand for ILLEGAL rentals. It is my responsibility to do the due diligence necessary (and however time consuming and onerous that might be) to make sure I rent a LEGAL rental.
The fact is that the vast majority of people renting through Airbnb et al, are not staying 5 weeks, are not doing the due diligence and ARE renting ILLEGAL rentals. However many acceptable reasons you want to name for renting an apartment rather than a hotel room, doesn't change that at all. The vast majority are indeed 'too mean' as you put it. NO ONE can justify an ILLEGAL rental. But there are plenty of people who can not care if it is illegal as long as they save MONEY.
May 31st, 2017, 07:53 AM
#35
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Apperently there are now 125 registered short term rentals on the City of Paris list.
https://opendata.paris.fr/explore/da....85963,2.33296
https://opendata.paris.fr/explore/da....85963,2.33296
Jun 26th, 2017, 08:18 AM
#38
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Agree with PalenQ. We were there a few years ago in July and it snowed in Wengen. Dress in layers, a long sleeve shirt, a hooded rain jacket and a sweatshirt to layer underneath the jacket if it gets cold. I would also recommend you keep a pair of gloves in case needed.
Jun 26th, 2017, 10:32 AM
#39
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I think snow in July must have been rather unusual but not out of question - will be cool at night anyway -higher altitude than either Grindelwald or Lauterbrunnen which are guaranteeably warmer. Layering again is the way to go -when sun pops out temps soar and when it goes under they drop.
Rain is always possible in summer - for days at times - so have some wet weathert alternatives ready -like day tripping down to Interlaken and do a boat ride (boats are covered and the weather down below can be quite different than up in dem hills) or go to Bern, a city more tolerable in wet weather than hiking.
Rain is always possible in summer - for days at times - so have some wet weathert alternatives ready -like day tripping down to Interlaken and do a boat ride (boats are covered and the weather down below can be quite different than up in dem hills) or go to Bern, a city more tolerable in wet weather than hiking.
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