Dayle

I have finally joined the Happily Retired Club and am planning what will probably be my last trip to bella Italia. Therefore, I'm going for as long as I possibly can - 6 weeks. No big rush, visiting some new places inspired by others' TRs and returning to some favorites. Combo of driving and trains, probably flying in to Bologna and out of Milan. First week of the trip I will be joined by life-long BF who wants to join the Bologna/Piedmonte part. Unfortunately she is limited to 1 week due to abandoning her non-traveling husband in order to come with me to celebrate.

Looking for input from the Fodorites on possible improvement in the order of itinerary, transportation modes, suggested highlights to visit. Not afraid to drive solo, have done it several times before including Sicily in 2013. No desire to drive in larger cities for the reasons we all know. I am interested in everything! History, ancient sites, architecture, art, scenery, food and wine. Love to mix cities with countryside. Intend to travel more slowly than ever before. Originally planned to travel south to north for crowd and weather factors, but switching to Bologna first to accommodate BFF. Would love to hear your best recommendations for a splurge restaurant in each area and special lodging.

Here is the rough draft. Suggestions welcome!

April 15 Arrive Bologna, perhaps train to Asti, pick up car (depending)
April 16 Piedmonte, stay La Morra (per Maitaitom's rec), Alba, other?
April 17 Piedmonte
April 18 - 23 Bologna, possible day trips to Ravenna, Padua, Modena or Parma, food tour in Bologna a definite
April 23 friend leaves from Bologna, I take high speed train to Rome
April 23 - 30 Roma!
April 30 Orvieto (return to favorite), wander and enjoy
May 1 train to Foligno, pick up car, Spello (return to favorite) - check holiday impact on rental pick up
May 1 - 13 allow 12 days to see parts of Umbria & Le Marche. Previously visited: Civita di Bagnoreggio, Todi, Deruta, Assisi, Gubbio. Would like to visit Norcia (Piano Grande), Arrezzo, Urbino, Ascoli Picenzo, Sinaluniga.....
May 14 return car, train & bus to Fiesole, no desire to stay IN Florence
May 15 Fiesole to visit a couple places in Florence I missed on first trip back in 1996!
May 16 - 20 train to Santa Margherita Ligure (return to favorite), also considering Rapallo or Camogli. Already visited Cinque Terre and Pisa in 2000.
May 21 - 23 Lago di Orta, previously visited Maggiore and Como.
May 24, 25, 26 add time to existing, or? So many options!
May 27 fly out of Milan

Wanted to include the Dolomiti as I have always wanted to return in the summer! Doesn't seem to fit well geographically or weather-wise. Would want this to be at the end of the trip, but even so, maybe too early and still mud season.

Question: Do I need a car for Lago di Orta? Wouldn't think so, but I know trains are not great between the lakes. Buses instead? Assume ferries run around the lake. I know it's very small.

Thanks in advance for your input! The draft itinerary is not my first choice given the switch to Bologna and Piedmonte first, but may still work given the time I have.

kja

I'm no help with this part of Italy, but congratulations, Dayle!

thursdaysd

Leely2

I have lots of thoughts...but I'm nursing a cold, so just some random ideas here:

Is Bologna a return visit? Have you been to Ravenna? Ravenna is quite remarkable, so if you can go, I doubt you would regret it.

About three years ago I took a trip with friends and family that had us driving from Rome, stopping in Orvieto, on to Spello for several nights and sightseeing in Umbria there, driving across the Piano Grande to Ascoli Piceno, where we stayed several days, doing day trips around there and a bit into Abruzzo. By the way, Abruzzo is wonderful, the Gran Sasso marvelous. [Don't trust me on a route that makes the most sense. I'm terrible at logistics like that when I'm not looking at a map.]

In Bologna I've stayed twice at Hotel Corona d'Oro and like it, but maybe you want a bigger splurge? Rooms are uneven, so ask for a room on a higher floor facing the street.

I stayed in Camogli two years ago and splurged at Hotel Cenobio dei Dogi, which was really lovely and comfortable and relaxing.

There is a lot to see in Arezzo. I stayed in a modest B & B, so a save not a splurge.

StCirq

Since you're allowing yourself a good bit of time in Umbria, I would suggest a day or two on/around Lago Trasimeno. It doesn't get much press around here, but has quite a few treasures.

dreamon

Sounds wonderful. A couple of comments - I'm not sure why you're flying into Bologna if you're heading straight off to Piedmont as that doesn't make logistical sense. Better to link Piedmont with Liguria and lake Orta I think, or fly into somewhere further north and west. Lake Orta is accessible by public transport, although some is infrequent and some (e.g. from Stresa) is seasonal.

progol

Dayle

Thank you everyone for your good wishes!

Yes, have visited Venice twice before and being an ambitious sightseer, was able to see 99% of what I wanted. Just missed Torcello. I could spend many more days just wandering this fascinating city, but.....so many wonderful places to visit in Italy! I understand Torino is wonderful and the Film Museum would be of great interest. We will see if I can fit it on this trip. Thanks thursdaysd!

Leely2, when did you visit the Piano Grande? From what I understand my trip might be a little early to catch wildflowers, but I would think it will still be nice spring green in early May! Trying to decide if I want to approach the Le Marche and Umbria part as almost a road trip with leisurely driving and lodging stops along the way. I travel light. Looks like the main road between Ascoli Piceno and north to Senigallia, is the coastal route which I have heard is not very scenic. Has anyone driven inland through the mountains on the smaller roads? I would probably want to spend at least a couple days in Urbino and Arezzo. Need to do more research.

Yes, flying in to Blogona and heading to Piedmonte is really not working given my friend's 8 night limitation. Too far to go for a short visit. I have proposed 3 new options:
1. stay in Bologna the entire time and do more day trips. I see that even Vicenza is easy by train.
2. head straight to Padua for 4 nights and also visit Vicenza from there, then back to Bologna for 4 nts. Friend heads home and I may stay another day depending on what we do together.
3. head straight to Florence for 2 nights to see a couple main sites, return to Bologna for the rest of the part with my friend.

Then I would put Piedmont after Liguria and before Lago di Orta which makes much better flow.

Should I keep the car for Orta?

It's a work in progress Trying to work around friend's limitations as she flies out of a smaller airline market city. Very pricey for her to fly open jaw.

Thanks for your suggestions. Please do keep them coming! I have always planned my trips with the Fodorites' excellent help. Grazie mille!

Dayle

Thank you for this reminder StCirg. Lago Trasimeno has always been on my radar. I'll see if it fits. Maybe I'm planning too much time for Norcia to Ascoli Piceno and up to Urbino to Arezzo.

joannyc

Dayle

dreamon

I think that any of those three options would be great but my least preferred would be the one which stays in Florence - you've been there before and it's only a short train ride from Bologna so it doesn't seem worth changing hotels. For the second option, Mantova or Vicenza itself would both be lovely as well. Just depends on which has the greatest appeal. Bologna is so well situated for day trips that that would be no hardship either and it would be relaxing to stay in one place.

Dayle

bvlenci

I don't think you've allowed too much time for the Umbria/Marche portion of your trip. I always seem to give advice to people who have allowed too little time for this area and necessarily miss most of its treasures.

I suggest starting with Norcia, and then going to Ascoli Piceno. You can stop at the Piano Grande en route. There will be little to no flowering at this time of year, but it's an impressive sight anyway. You might also want to stop in Acquasanta Terme, which is a thermal spa of natural sulphur springs on the river Tronto. There was considerable earthquake damage to this town, but the spa is open again. You can go to the indoor pool for a swim, entrance €48. There is also an outdoor pool, which is free, but I don't know if it's open in April. The town is attractive and in a scenic spot.

Ascoli Piceno deserves at least a day. The central Piazza del Popolo is one of the most beautiful in Italy. There is an old-fashioned traditional bar, the Caffè Meletti, on the piazza, which you should definitely visit. There are also medieval towers, like those in San Gimignano, but not as numerous.

On your way north, you might want to visit Offida, where they have a long lace-making tradition. There is a museum of lace-making, where they usually have someone demonstrating the art. There is also a very unusual medieval church/fortress on the edge of a cliff. Another possibility, if the weather is warm and dry, would be to take a walk in the Gola del Infernaccio, a very scenic mountain gorge. I don't know if you'd have time for both, so choose based on your interests and the weather.

Heading further north in the interior (avoiding the autostrada along the coast) there is much beautiful scenery and many tiny towns. The next stop I would suggest is Urbisaglia, and the Abbey of Chiaravalle di Fiastra. Urbisalglia has some interesting Roman ruins, but the main interest for me is the beautiful Romanesque Cistercian abbey, which is adjacent to a nature reserve. Parts of the abbey date to the 5th century, built with stones from Roman Urbisaglia, but most of it dates to medieval times. They have a shop where you can buy all sorts of products made by the monks.

Heading north again, there are many stopovers I could recommend. San Severino Marche, with another beautiful piazza, is a beautiful place, with a lower town and an upper town. The cathedral in the upper town is worth a visit. We once had a very nice meal in a restaurant near the cathedral. I can't remember the name, and it was about ten years ago, so my experience may no longer be valid. Caldarola has a very nice castle, which unfortunately was damaged by the earthquake and has still not reopened. Camerino, a little jewel of a walled hill town, was also seriously damaged, and most of the center is off limits.

There are two excellent restaurants in the vicinity of Camerino. One is Pappafò, in a beautiful hillside setting just outside of Camerino. It is open for business and also has rooms. We've eaten there several times, but, as we have a summer house nearby, we've never stayed in the rooms. This is my favorite restaurant in the area. The other restaurant is in the valley below Camerino, near the town on Castelraimondo. It's called the Borgo Lanciano, in a complex that was once the service quarters of the nearby Castello di Lanciano. This is a popular spot for weddings, with their own little chapel, and the restaurant is excellent. It's a bit more formal than Pappafò. There is also a spa on the grounds, where I have sometimes enjoyed a shiatsu massage. They also have rooms for guests, in a lovely cloister-like setting.

The Castello di Lanciano is just across the road from the spa complex, but it's also closed because of earthquake damage. This and the castle in Caldarola, are privately owned, and the owners probably are short of funds for repairs. In this area, castles are thick on the ground and most are privately owned.

Very near Camerino is a tiny jewel of a town called Pioraco, where three rivers come together. This town dates from Roman times, and there is a little Roman bridge in the town, much repaired over the centuries. I have mentioned many places where you might want to stop for a few hours heading north from Urbisaglia/Fiastra, and you really would have to pick and choose, I think, unless you spend a night or two in the area.

The next destination I would recommend is Fabriano, which was one of the earliest European centers of papermaking. The old paper mill is now a museum, where they give a very interesting tour, also available in English. I would call ahead to let them know if you want an English tour, so that they'll be sure to have a suitable guide on hand. (In the summer, they almost always have an English-speaking guide.) They have a great gift shop featuring hand-made paper, but also all sorts of artisanal items related to paper, such as leather pencil cases and agendas. (They also have a shop at Fiumicino airport, and maybe also at Malpensa.)

Near Fabriano, the caverns of Frasassi are worth a visit if you have any interest in exploring caverns. They have English tours, but if you can't make one of them, they'll give you a headset which explains what you're seeing in English. The caverns are located in a scenic mountain gorge along the Sentino river. In the nearby town of San Vittore Terme, another thermal spa town, there is a lovely little Romanesque church, which is now a speleological museum. Your ticket to the caverns includes entrance to this museum, but the main interest here is the church itself. There's also a good restaurant called La Scaletta. The parking lot for the caverns is very near the center of San Vittore Terme. From the parking lot, there is a shuttle to take you to the cavern entrance. You could walk back to the parking lot, making a slight detour to visit San Vittore Terme. If you go on the weekend, I would reserve a ticket to the caverns. On weekdays in April it shouldn't be necessary. In the summer, I would avoid weekends altogether if possible, because sometimes the tour groups are scheduled too close together, leading to bottlenecks.

Fabriano is also near another remarkable medieval monastery called Fonte Avellana. This is in a beautiful spot on the slopes of Mount Catria. There are several hiking trails that pass through the grounds of the monastery. There are regular guided tours of the monastery; they are usually in Italian, but they will give you a script in English which enables you to follow along.

From Fabriano, with a possible detour for a visit to Fonte Avellana, I would head east towards the coast. We're getting close to Urbino! I would make a brief stop in Pergola, to see the Museum of the Bronzi Dorati, which are a nearly unique collection of life-sized ancient Roman gilded bronze statues that were discovered nearby. After Pergola, I recommend a stop in Corinaldo, one of the best-preserved walled medieval towns in this part of Italy. There is an excellent restaurant in Corinaldo called the Nova Taberna, located on its central stairway. In the immediate vicinity there is an archaeological site called Suasa, which is very interesting. Its opening hours in April would probably be limited. There is also a paleo Christian church in Corinaldo, where you can get a tour if you call ahead. The tourist office can help you with this. This most interesting thing in Corinaldo is to explore the medieval streets and the 14th century wall. There is a hotel in an ex-monastery built into the wall, but there are also several B&Bs in the town.

If you stay in Corinaldo, you might want to take a quick drive to Senigallia, on the Adriatic Coast, where one of Italy's top restaurants, the three-Michelin-starred Uliassi, is located. It's expensive, but worth the price. Another starred restaurant there is Madonnina del Pescatore, but I prefer Uliassi (and it has more stars!) There are also some excellent non-starred restaurants in Senigallia. One of my favorites is Raggiazzurro, on the seaside.

Moving north from Corinaldo, you should stop for an hour or two in Mondavio, where there is a medieval fortress, designed by the same medieval military architect who designed the walls of Corinaldo. There's a little museum inside the fortress, which is very interesting. On the top floor, there is a museum of medieval armaments, and a great view over the surrounding countryside. There are two other possible stops: One is Fratte Rosa, a center of artisanal ceramic laboratories. The traditional ceramics of this area have a deep eggplant glaze, often just on the inside of the vessel with splashes on the outside. I like the style very much, but they also make ceramics of other styles. The other possible stop before reaching Urbino is the Gola del Furlo, in antother mountain gorge, where there is a tunnel carved in the rock over 2000 years ago. Until very recently, the modern road still passed through that tunnel, but a landslide closed part of the road beyond the tunnel. However, it may be open again. If not, you can park your car and walk through the tunnel. Just beyond the town of Furlo, the ancient abbey church of San Vincenzo al Furlo, always open and unattended, is very interesting. There's a little park adjacent to the church, where you can see some ancient Roman flood control works. There's also a little bar where you can get a snack.

Finally, you'll reach Urbino, where there is a lot to see, both in the city and in the vicinity. I think it's easy to find information on Urbino, but if you have any questions, I'll try to help.

Arezzo is an easy train ride from Florence, but you could also visit it after Urbino. The route by car between Urbino and Arezzo is scenic and there are several nice stopping points.

I haven't given a lot of restaurant advice, but, sincerely, it's hard to find a disappointing meal in this area, known among Italians for its excellent traditional cuisine. Some of the tradional specialities:

Passatelli, a fat noodle made from bread crumbs and cheese, often served in a meat broth, but also with other dressings.
Vincisgrassi, the marchigiano version of lasagne, and better, in my opinion.
Brodetto, a fish stew, which you can find in many restaurants along the coast.
Meat dishes and sauces based on wild boar (cinghiale).
Rabbit (coniglio) in potacchio, a method of cooking meat in which the meat (or fish) is slowly braised with wine, herbs (including wild fennel) and a little tomato.

Some wines of Le Marche:
Verdicchio dei Castelli di Jesi, or also "di Matelica"
Lacrima di Morro d'Alba (a wine found only in a very small area, made from a grape found only in this area).
Rosso Piceno
Rosso del Conero

TDudette

Congratulations, Dayle! I'm so excited that you chose Bella Italia as your first retirement trip. The two TRs below cover some of the towns you plan to visit. Spoleto was such a favorite because of our hotel and meals there. We did go to the lake StC mentioned (from Perugia) but it was in March and the Lace Museum I wanted to see wasn't yet open for the season. We took trains or buses but needed a car for some of the towns mentioned in the Perugia TR.

Turin, Spoleto, Bologna and Bellagio TR

fodors.com/community/europe/perugia-and-rome-by-train-and-bus-769131/

Enjoy and please report back asap!

bvlenci

Most of the places I've mentioned are intended as short stops along your route north. If you want advice on where to spend a few nights, I would recommend:

Ascoli Piceno or vicinity
Vicinity of Camerino, where I've mentioned two places that have accomodations
Fabriano or vicinity
Corinaldo or vicinity.
Urbino

TDudette

PS, Dayle, the second TR was the one where we tried to meet up with you but we couldn't find the resto Cul de Sac and ended up at Rust.

joannyc

Dayle

Oh my goodness! Grazie mille bvlenci and TDudette! You have exactly captured what I had in mind for this part of my trip. It sounds like I can do a sort of road trip with lots of interesting stops, great scenery and beautiful small towns to stay over. As the itinerary is evolving, it looks like I will be in Le Marche and Umbria early May so that may help with English tours and opening hours a bit. You have provided so much detail I can't think of questions at the moment, but I will be coming back with many I am certain!

Thinking about a good rental car pick up location. I was going to do Foligno and the Spello, but it is further north if I'm heading to Ascoli Piceno. Trying to figure out when to stay in my favorite, beautiful Spello for a couple nights. I was thinking first before starting the rest of the driving to Le Marche and other parts of Umbria. Any input? Maybe drop the car in Arezzo? Not too big of a city ofr easy drop off?

We have had two days of non-stop torrential rain and wind here in Utah and we even got our first snow down to about 8,500 ft.! Not just a dusting either. I think I will have plenty to do researching details this winter! Now it's sunny - yay - and time to take the Pugs for a walk.

Once again, grazie mille!

Dayle

Also, I was just on line before I saw your posts and was looking at Ascoli Piceno. The piazza is gorgeous! Definitely want to stay there.