This September, after dropping my daughter off for her freshman year at St.Andrews, we would like to spend 5 to 6 weeks travelling and visiting or re-visiting cities/areas in Europe. We've agonized over maps, trying to figure out where to start after Edinborough and in what order we visit. We are turning to the travel experts for help.<BR><BR>We would like to re-visit Paris and Venice, and add areas that we have not yet seen. Amsterdam, Prague, Vienna, Munich (Southern Germany)Lake Como/Maggiorre, Milan, Provence, Monaco. We would like to fly back to Boston from Paris, but this is not a deal breaker.<BR><BR>We can travel by car or train, whatever is recommended for the best route to take to accomplish our goals. Cost is not a major factor, but hate to fly over and miss sites.<BR><BR>What to you think? Any and all opinions would be welcome for itinerary, time to spend, sites to see, accomodations and/or travel methods.<BR><BR>Thanks in advance.

As much as I am an adbvocate of using cheap intra-Europe flights, I think that you have the right idea to see Europe out a car window, since you have this much time. and I suspect that you will get your best deal from a lease. Search this forum and you will find various good deals, mostly from Peugeot, I think, but may other sources as well.<BR><BR>Best wishes,<BR><BR>Rex<BR>

Plan to visit Provence right before Paris and you can take the TGV train to Paris in about 3.5 hrs.<BR><BR>Prague, Budapest (don't forget it,) and Vienna can be grouped together. You can also take a boat cruise down the Rhine not far out of Amsterdam into Germany that we really enjoyed although it was a long time ago. It is only about a 4 hr. drive from Milan/Lake Como to Monaco and then on to Provence. Be sure to consult viamichelin.com for driving directions. It has helped me a lot.

Repeat after me...Edinburgh, Edinburgh.<BR><BR>Not Edinborough or Edinboro or anything else that sounds *like* Edinburgh.

Hi<BR><BR>September is light on traffic, but still warm in the South.<BR><BR>I would drive.<BR><BR>Have you thought about including Spain ?<BR><BR>The TGV has now been improved. Fastest Avignon - Paris times are down to 2.5 hours.<BR><BR>Bon voyage<BR><BR>Peter<BR>

ttt

Hello John,<BR>There you will be in Scotland, magnificent country, culture and people. Do you plan to travel in Scotland? How much time could you give it there to explore the country before moving outward? I would give it some time, paricularly since your daughter will be going to school there.<BR>There is a loop around the coast from St. Andrews that we would have taken had we more time. There is also up the coast heading north toward Aberdeen and then you could visit Sheila. Visit Archeolink (Aberdeenshire)for the best tour of prehistoric remains in the country IMHO. Then of course, you could go West to the Inner Hebrides and absorb all sorts of history along the way. Then you could stay at our all time favorite place of hospitality, grace, natural surrroundings and incredible food..the Ardsheal House, just north of Oban on Loche Linnhe with views of the loche and the Morvern Mountains (www.ardsheal.co.uk. Think on it.<BR>Anne<BR>

I wonder how often you lurk, or pseudonym it here.<BR>

John,<BR>Planning a European trip of five to six weeks duration can be as awesome and confusing an undertaking as the trip itself. Particularly so when respondents to your posting (myself included) interject their own preferences and muddy up the waters even more. How best to make sense of, and realize, your desires and expectations? How best to maximize time and minimize unpacking and repacking every other night or so? Let’s begin by breaking your proposed itinerary, with some modifications of my own, into manageable segments. Once you’ve left Great Britain, there appear to be six manageable segments: the Low Countries (including Belgium); central European cities; Munich and Bavaria; Italy; Switzerland (more on that later) and France.<BR><BR>Since most of your interests seem to revolve around European cities, train is the most practical and efficient mode of travel. An auto is a far greater handicap than asset in a European city. There could be two exceptions: the Low Countries and Germany’s Bavaria both of which are conducive to travel by auto either because of the regions’ relatively compact size or the difficulty in visiting some sights if dependent upon train and bus transport and schedules. Consider an auto rental in both areas with a drop off in country before moving on to your next destination by train.<BR><BR>You might consider the following posting as a hopefully logical itinerary. I show two numbers of days devoted to each segment, based on either a five or six week journey.<BR>I hope, too, that the itinerary has some logic to it and will give you a starting point from which to plan.

Here we go:<BR>Segment 1. The Low Countries. 6/8 days. Take the chunnel train from Great Britain to Brussels and continue on to Brugge, Belgium. Consider 3 to 4 days in Brugge with perhaps a day trip to Ghent, Brussels or Antwerp. A car might be desirable because distances are so short. (I’ve traveled from Brugge to Clervaux, Luxembourg where I toured the village, had a leisurely lunch, drove back to Brugge with a stop in Leuven to enjoy dinner and a massive street festival and arrived in Brugge before 11PM, for example.) Then on to Amsterdam and the Netherlands for 3 to 4 days.<BR><BR>Segment 2. Prague, Budapest, Vienna 8/8 days. Overnight train from Amsterdam to Prague (no change of trains involved). 3 days in Prague, train to Vienna. 5 days in Vienna with perhaps a day trip to Budapest (3 hours by train). <BR><BR>Segment 3. Munich and Bavaria 5/5 days. Day train to Munich, about 5 hours ride and scenic. I’d suggest renting an auto and staying in a Bavarian village rather than Munich.<BR>(To visit Munich, you can drive to a suburban S-bahn station and train to the city.) Bavarian inns are charming, most with excellent restaurants serving regional dishes. I can offer some driving itineraries in Bavaria that may be of interest. <BR><BR>Segment 4. Italy. 7/10 days. Day train from Munich to Venice via Innsbruck, Bolzano and Verona (to take advantage of scenic sights). Venice to Lake Como via Milan and Como.<BR><BR>Segment 5. Geneva. 2/2 days. Train to Geneva. Primarily to break up the lengthy (10 hour or so) train ride with many its many change of trains from Como to Avignon. <BR><BR>Segment 6. France. 7/8 days. Here you may “steal” days from earlier in your travels depending upon the length of time you choose to spend in Paris. <BR><BR>I hope the preceding has been of some help. Feel free to Email me directly if you’ve any questions <BR>

TTT

TTT

As always, Wes gives great advice. His basic thesis, north to south, is good given the time of year.<BR><BR>Of course people are different, with different travel styles and likes/dislikes. We undertook a similar odyssey a couple of years ago and remained car-based for the duration, typically staying on the periphery of big cities we wanted to visit (thus saving money on hotels) and taking commuter trains into the centers when the car was a nuisance. This way we could wander around the countryside at will, not have to pre-book accommodations and figure how to get from airport or train station to hotel (taxis can get pricey), and we could store the growing mass of souvenirs in the car rather than schlepping it all over. The few times we had to drive into a big city we found a hotel with parking and ditched Dobbin for the duration, but it was probably still cheaper than all the taxis and porters we would have needed if train- or plane-based.<BR><BR>We used the Renault Eurodrive lease program (www.renaultusa.com) because after a couple of weeks or so (or less depending on where you are) the cost is cheaper, and for more comfortable cars, than the equivalent Hertz et al rates; plus all insurance is included; plus they'll let you take the car into Eastern Europe, which the others often won't; plus you can drop it anywhere in France for no drop fee, or modest pickup/drop fees in other countries, etc. Whew. <BR><BR>By all means enjoy Scotland while you're there (rent another car for the UK only because of the right hand drive business); there are cheap flights from EdinBURGH to Amsterdam; you could pick up the car there when you've finished your stay, in order to save money and nerves, then hit the road.<BR><BR>Planning for a big trip like this is a lot of fun. Being spontaneous when you're there is also fun. Do both.

I forgot to mention, with 5 or 6 weeks you have the opportunity to premeditate your route a little in order to catch interesting (or bizarre) local events or festivals. I keep plugging a fabulous website for this, www.whatsonwhen.com - itself a serious source of distraction from work and food.

Definitely include Prague and Budapest (check out the spas there - very cheap!)<BR><BR>France: Must see Provence, Lyon and Paris (I studied in Lyon and my parents came to visit me there. They were shocked at how amazing the city was and thought that it was better than Paris.)<BR><BR>Germany: Koln is great. Largest and most amazing cathedrale facade that I have ever seen! Check out the boat ride on the Rhine. Munich is cool for a short time.<BR><BR>Spain: Barcelona! Costa del Sol<BR><BR>Scotland: Have you considered hiking the Highlands?<BR><BR>Belgium: Brugges - it's a Northern Venice. Very romantic. And maybe Anthrop? It's the diamond capital of the world! <BR><BR>These are just some of my faorites. I would do a combination or car and train. <BR><BR>Have a fabulous trip!

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Topped for John

I once had the opportunity to spend three months in Europe. You will quickly find yourself in information overload and trust me, no matter if you have three months or three years, you will never get to see everything that you want. <BR><BR>I basically did what Wes did. So...<BR>1. List what are the most important regions to see for you (in general).<BR>2. Set a time budget for them.<BR>3. Then fill in the details.<BR>4. Go with the flow and enjoy.<BR><BR>Bon voyage.<BR>