swandav2000

Everything I say about Grindelwald is based on fact. There are cars that drive there, and in July and August there are busses. For every car that drives there from Interlaken, it brings 4.6 kilograms of emissions pollution (taking the train there brings 0.01 kilograms). Multiply that by the number of cars in the parking lots, and you'll see that there is some pollution. Undeniable.

Everything you say about Wengen is based on opinion. Of course there are hopping bars there -- I have seen them. You have not. The bars are full of the young, fit ski instructors or hiking guides that are out during the day; the bars are literally jam packed at night. Simply because there are fewer bars -- or because they are not located next to the hotels -- doesn't mean they are not there. Saying that Wengen is sleepy shows that you don't know what you're talking about.

I don't think I've ever called Grindelwald charmless. I think I said that, compared to Wengen, it is less charming. I've said that Interlaken is charmless. But I don't think I ever called G'd charmless.

s

Get your facts straight.

s

PalenQ

Saying that Wengen is sleepy shows that you don't know what you're talking about.>

Again wrap your head around the fact that I said "compared to Grindelwald" Wengen may seem somnolent - not that it by itself is - please try to comprehend that parsing of words which you seem to fail to grasp.

Folks like Wengen because it is not Grindelwald but you are saying that the night life there is just as boisterous as Grindelwald's - OK I will incorporate the fact that Wengen has a booming night life at certain seasons at least.

Wengen hops!

swandav2000

No, Pal, you are the one with trouble reading the written word. I have never said the night life in Wengen is as boiserous as Grindelwald's. I've said that the bars that are there are hopping.

Here are two of your comments on Wengen & Grindelwald:

1. "But yes first-timers should do a Grindelwald or Wengen, the two I think are the best for views and accessibility. Wengen for older crowds or those with younger kids - Grindelwald for the more energetic and youthful."


2. "I've been to Wengen many times - never to stay the night - it's nice for what one may want - isolation, quiet, etc but IMO most will like Grindelwald and its semblance of life than somnolent Wengen."

Show me, please where your relative comparisons are.

s

PalenQ

We both should open our minds - even to charming Interlaken, one of the nicest towns in all of Switzerland if you get beneath the tourist veneer on the main drag, which few folks who criticize it as tourist schlock do not or they would never say such things (you are the exception to that - you have discovered the neat areas like Matten - the Lucerne type wooden bridges - the lovely walking path along the north side of the river linking the two lakes - the lovely old town square - you have seen these but still can call Interlaken charmless! Wow! Go back and give it a better look IMO.

swandav2000

Thanks -- actually your many posts have made me want to do that. However, I live in a mountain town now, and I generally spend my time in other areas of Switzerland rather than the Jungfrau region. But if I'm there, I'll probably give Interlaken another deep look.

s

PalenQ

I will give another take about Wengen too - not as somnolent as I thought and for the average person probably a good blend of whatever they want - Grindelwald is much more busy and to many that is not a plus. Now no more batting that about - you obviously know Wengen much better than moi.

PalenQ

Lauterbrunnen is one town I would eschew not because it ain't nice but it lies in a deep gorge so the magnificent views of the Jungfrau Massif are only partial and fleeting. Murren, perched on the top of the Lauterbrunnen Gorge is like Wengen carless and has stunning views of the glacier-girdled high Alps but is more remote than Wengen.

swandav2000

Agree with you on all points, Pal! I'm always put off by the deep shadows in Lauterbrunnen; I've always thought I'd be claustrophobic staying there.

So glad we were able to come to agree!

s

Sojourntraveller

One of the things that people from other places in the world are not aware of is how important it is to be on a south facing slope.

Most people are aware of the saying, 'location, location, location, when it comes to real estate values. Nowhere is that more true than in Switzerland where being on a south facing slope that gets the sun is the ideal.

The differences in the number of hours of sun one village gets vs. another is as important as the views you can see. Some readers of this may be thinking, 'well how much difference can there really be.

In January, Wengen is sunny all day (assuming it is a sunny day of course). Lauterbrunnen 0 - 2 hours of sun per day in January due to location. That to me is a HUGE difference.

PalenQ

In summer of course northward facing places get the most sun, right? And it can be cool at higher elevation places like Murren and Wengen even in the dead of summer.

neckervd

In early January, the sun arrives at Wengen towards 10.30am.
As to Lauterbrunnen, I fully second Sojourntraveller.

Sojourntraveller

Umm, no PalenQ. Not in the Northern Hemisphere. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west. South facing slopes always get the most sun year round. https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=...e+south+facing

The same applies anywhere but nowhere more so than in mountains. People who don't live or haven't spent much time in mountains really don't realize what a difference it makes.

The sun does move north/south during the year but not enough (23.5 degrees) to put the north facing slopes in the sun more than the south facing slopes.
http://physics.weber.edu/schroeder/u...ndSeasons.html

The ANGLE of the sun changes. It is at its highest angle on June 21st (usual summer solstice date)and at its lowest December 21st (usual winter solstice date).

You're gonna have to go to the Southern Hemisphere if you want sun on the north slopes. We are of course talking about Switzerland here which is not in the southern hemisphere. ;-)

travelgal86

Wow quite a bit of opinions on where to visit in Switzerland in december--I have some research to do! Thank you!

travelgal86

Hi All,

I've been doing some more research and think I am narrowing down our itinerary, though the debate in this thread makes it tough!!

I think we will stay either in Grindelwald or Wengen for 2 or 3 nights (probably 3?) and then Lucerne for 2 nights before taking a train to Paris.

We are planning to go up to Jungfrau as a day trip either from Grindelwald or Wengen (and hope we have good weather for one of the three days). Unfortunately the Hotel Bodmi isn't an option for Grindelwald since they have a 5 night minimum.

Hoping to get all of this figured out in the next few days!

PalenQ

We are planning to go up to Jungfrau as a day trip either from Grindelwald or Wengen (and hope we have good weather for one of the three days).>

Ideally go up one route and return via another - like from Wengen to Kleine Scheidegg - jumping off point for Jungfraujoch trains - and then come back thru Grindelwald - two different rail routes - then return to Wengen or Grindelwald by train.

Two different toy-like trains - ech awesomely scenic in their own right.

PalenQ

If you like hiking you can easily incorporate into your Jungfraujoch train the very easy and what is the most popular hike in the whole region porbably - the famous Ridge Walk between The Mannlichen and Kleine Schiedegg, jumping off point for the Jungfraujoch Railway.

This is a few mile slightly uphill stroll over paths wide enough to see baby carriages on - take the cable car from Wengen up to The Mannlichen (some of the best views in the whole area - over Interlaken wedged between its two lakes far below and all over the bony (rocky Alpine) spine of central Switzerland.

And from Kl Schiedegg I once walked down to Wengen, a lovely lovely walk over a wide path and gently descending with spectacular views over the whole Lauterbrunnen Valley the whole way. Walking this portion would also save you money on taking the train that portion - it's a longer hike however of a few hours or more but IME not that difficult.

PalenQ

and then Lucerne for 2 nights before taking a train to Paris.>

Lucerne is small and compact in its relatively few main sights so spend a wonderful day or part of on wonderful Lake Lucerne - like taking the boat to Vitznau for the mountain train to Rigi Kulm - the summit of Mt Rigi, which is not that high but is known for having some of the most fantastic views in all of Switzerland - a lateral view of the rocky peaks making up the backbone of central Switzerland.

Mark Twain famously wrote about his ascension (on foot before the train was around) and had a wonderful time in spite of the incessant blowing of Alp Horns at the summit, a tradition that IMO lamentably continues - kind of like bag pipes to me - screeching noise that some call music.

PalenQ

Also in Lucerne do not miss walking along the ancient old town ramparts on the higher north end of town!

PalenQ

another fab day trip by boat and mountain train goes first by boat to Alpnachstad and from near the dock you hop a very thrilling mountain railways to Mt Pilatus' summit - rave views for miles around - the train is ubiquitously listed as one of the most thrilling in Europe.

then for variety take the aerial cable way down to suburban Lucerne at Krens for buses back to Lucerne's centrum. Again a Swiss Pass covers all but gives 50% of the conveyances up and down Pilatus.

travelgal86

When I look at the swiss rail site, it doesnt seem like train tickets are available exactly 90 days out (unless I am counting days wrong or mis-understanding the site). Do tickets go on sale for Luzern to Paris exactly 90 days from when I am planning to travel? I am hoping to take the train on December 29.

Also, if we're interested in having a fun/extra nice train ride, is it worth buying a first class ticket? Or is "2nd class" nice and it's not worth the extra expense?

Thank you!