3 months in Europe...please help!!!
Sep 29th, 2004, 07:54 AM
#21
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Patrick nailed it re: private schools and dance lessons-- they do eat up the discretionary budget. And I, too, regret not being able to afford a semester abroad during college, or backpacking through Europe because I was way too career-oriented in my 20s.
That's why thenathans' question struck a chord with me, I guess. And why I say Go for It, take as much time off as you can, stay till you get good and bored with Europe!
That's why thenathans' question struck a chord with me, I guess. And why I say Go for It, take as much time off as you can, stay till you get good and bored with Europe!
Sep 29th, 2004, 08:33 AM
#24
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Two years ago I quit my job and did two months across Europe. I did try to go fairly low budget but not hostels because I was in my late thirties at the time. I found plenty of hotels between $50 and $100 but since then the dollar has taken quite a hit versus the euro. My most expensive hotels were Venice, London, and St. Petersburg Russia but the bargains were Turkey, Tuscany, much of France (Lyon, Paris, french riviera), and Greece.
You might want to consider using a website such as www.europebyair for your flights but do most of your travel by train.
There are many logistical things to consider such as wanting guides books for everywhere but not being able to carry 20 different books with you (I had a friend meet me in Italy and had her bring some books then I shipped others home) You can also buy english language guide books along the way. I made reservations for hotels ahead of time for certain cities but used internet cafes for booking hotels a day or two ahead for other locations. I very much enjoyed having the freedom to not have a set itinerary all the time.
My highlights were probably Turkey (go to cappadocia) and Russia was amazing.
Let me know if you have specific questions.
You might want to consider using a website such as www.europebyair for your flights but do most of your travel by train.
There are many logistical things to consider such as wanting guides books for everywhere but not being able to carry 20 different books with you (I had a friend meet me in Italy and had her bring some books then I shipped others home) You can also buy english language guide books along the way. I made reservations for hotels ahead of time for certain cities but used internet cafes for booking hotels a day or two ahead for other locations. I very much enjoyed having the freedom to not have a set itinerary all the time.
My highlights were probably Turkey (go to cappadocia) and Russia was amazing.
Let me know if you have specific questions.
Sep 29th, 2004, 08:39 AM
#25
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I think a three month trip could be a great experience and I hope it works out for thenathans. But I also think Rex's point is generally worth considering. It's not just the cost of a three-month trip, but the loss of employment income and savings while on the trip. So just as an example - if each member of a couple is making $3K/month, then they will lose $18K of income on a 3-month trip. If they only go for 2 months, then the loss is only $12K. The more you are making, of course, the greater the loss (although maybe you can afford it more).
Here is one organization that links you to organic farms that provide free room and board in exchange for work:
http://wwoof.org
But given I don't really like farm work in the first place, and that a farm by definition is probably some distance away from interesting urban centers, I wouldn't really like that option. You might feel differently.
I met a retired Australian couple who had done just what Caroline discusses in respect to purchasing a campervan and driving it around Europe. They had a private toilet and shower, and were able to cook in the campervan. They were on a 6 or 7 month trip.
Here is one organization that links you to organic farms that provide free room and board in exchange for work:
http://wwoof.org
But given I don't really like farm work in the first place, and that a farm by definition is probably some distance away from interesting urban centers, I wouldn't really like that option. You might feel differently.
I met a retired Australian couple who had done just what Caroline discusses in respect to purchasing a campervan and driving it around Europe. They had a private toilet and shower, and were able to cook in the campervan. They were on a 6 or 7 month trip.
Sep 29th, 2004, 09:21 AM
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I would strongly encourage you to do this! I am a US citizen and currently live and work in Switzerland, and have lived and worked outside the US for the past 12 years. I took a year off about 10 years ago and travelled around Asia, and would love to do it again when I am 50. I have some thoughts on your plan:
1. The lonelyplanet.com website would be a good source of info, as it is geared toward budget long-term travel. Their guidebooks would probably prove invaluable to you. The website has a chat room where you could post a similar question and/or review posting by others on this subject. This is the site for backpacker travelling, and they often have good ideas for budget travel. Get onto the chat/talk site and post your question. The area of the site you need is called "Thorn Tree Posts ". The site is somewhat similar to this Talk section of the Fodors site.
2. I believe you could qualify for a student or youth discount card for discounts on public transport, hostels, etc. I think the age in Europe is up to 25. The lonelyplanet.com website may have info on this.
3. Make sure you have adequate health insurance to cover you during your travels. You should be able to find pretty cheap major medical travel insurance available from US insurance companies or travel service providers. This should include evacuation expenses if you want to go to another country or return to the US for treatment. If your leave of absence would include continued health coverage form yoru employer, that would be great, also make sure it would cover you outside of the US. Also, if your parents, in-laws or friends want to give you a going-away gift, the offer to pay for travel health insurance makes a great gift, IMO.
4. Most European countries will allow you to stay as a tourist for up to 90 days without needing a visa. Go to http://travel.state.gov/ for information on visa requirements, click on "International Travel". You are not supposed to work while visiting as a tourist, more on this below, however you can look for a job while in a country as a tourist.
5. Europe is generally fairly expensive in terms of housing, food, transportation, etc. Eastern European counties like the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland and the Baltics would have a cheaper cost of living. Southern Italy would have a cheaper cost of living than northern Italy, and probably cheaper than most of Europe. Switzerland is very expensive. The camper van idea above would probably be a good idea, but remember you would also need a car, car insurance and gas is about US$4.50 a gallon here. Hostels would probably be cheaper overall.
6. I would budget yourself so that you don't have to worry about working. The primary reasons for this are (i) you cannot work legally without a work permit which must be sponsored by your employer, and it is very unlikely that you would find an employer willing to sponsor you for short-term and unskilled work (ii) you don't want to take a chance on working illegally as you can be fined, deported, etc,, and (iii) unless you speak a European language well, no foreign employer outside of the UK will really be that interested in employing you, esp as a waiter, etc where you have to deal with the public all day.
You may be able to find a short-term position teaching overseas, and a school to sponsor your work permit. There is a website called Overseas Digest (overseasdigest.com) which has a section on teaching overseas. www.overseasdigest.com/odsamples/ambrose.html The site has lots of information, links and contacts about teaching and living overseas.
If you or your wife are of Irish or Italian descent, you may qualify for Irish or Italian citizenship which would give you the right to work legally and without a work permit in any EU country. (This does not include Switzerland or any country whose admission to the EU is not final.) For info on dual citizenship in Ireland, you might try the Irish Embassy in the US at www.irelandemb.org. For info on whether you qualify for Italian citizenship, take a look at the website for the Italian Embassy in the US at http://www.italyemb.org/. I find this site hard to use, but you may have more luck. Note that depending on your age, you could be subject to being drafted into the Italian army once you become a citizen. Also, note that while the US permits dual citizenship, but does not encourage it. Go to http://travel.state.gov/dualnationality.htmlt for info.
If you have a university degree and other other qualificiations that make you attractive to US companies overseas or to foreign employers, don't rule out actually taking a long-term job in a country and staying for a year or so. A great experience. Classifed ads in English language newspapers, the internet, headhunters, etc would all be good sources.
7. Rather than or in addition to traveling in Europe, I would suggest you consider Australia and/or New Zealand, esp if you want to try to work. There are no language barriers and it is a bit easier to get work (albeit illegally). You will find both very safe, friendly, easy to get around. You should have no trouble finding inexpensive accommodations. You might want to post this question on the Australia and Pacific board. Also check the Lonely Planet website as there are always good ideas there for travel/work options in Australia and Asia generally. I would also recommend Bali as a place to live cheaply and possibly find work, but for various reasons that may not interest you at this time.
1. The lonelyplanet.com website would be a good source of info, as it is geared toward budget long-term travel. Their guidebooks would probably prove invaluable to you. The website has a chat room where you could post a similar question and/or review posting by others on this subject. This is the site for backpacker travelling, and they often have good ideas for budget travel. Get onto the chat/talk site and post your question. The area of the site you need is called "Thorn Tree Posts ". The site is somewhat similar to this Talk section of the Fodors site.
2. I believe you could qualify for a student or youth discount card for discounts on public transport, hostels, etc. I think the age in Europe is up to 25. The lonelyplanet.com website may have info on this.
3. Make sure you have adequate health insurance to cover you during your travels. You should be able to find pretty cheap major medical travel insurance available from US insurance companies or travel service providers. This should include evacuation expenses if you want to go to another country or return to the US for treatment. If your leave of absence would include continued health coverage form yoru employer, that would be great, also make sure it would cover you outside of the US. Also, if your parents, in-laws or friends want to give you a going-away gift, the offer to pay for travel health insurance makes a great gift, IMO.
4. Most European countries will allow you to stay as a tourist for up to 90 days without needing a visa. Go to http://travel.state.gov/ for information on visa requirements, click on "International Travel". You are not supposed to work while visiting as a tourist, more on this below, however you can look for a job while in a country as a tourist.
5. Europe is generally fairly expensive in terms of housing, food, transportation, etc. Eastern European counties like the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland and the Baltics would have a cheaper cost of living. Southern Italy would have a cheaper cost of living than northern Italy, and probably cheaper than most of Europe. Switzerland is very expensive. The camper van idea above would probably be a good idea, but remember you would also need a car, car insurance and gas is about US$4.50 a gallon here. Hostels would probably be cheaper overall.
6. I would budget yourself so that you don't have to worry about working. The primary reasons for this are (i) you cannot work legally without a work permit which must be sponsored by your employer, and it is very unlikely that you would find an employer willing to sponsor you for short-term and unskilled work (ii) you don't want to take a chance on working illegally as you can be fined, deported, etc,, and (iii) unless you speak a European language well, no foreign employer outside of the UK will really be that interested in employing you, esp as a waiter, etc where you have to deal with the public all day.
You may be able to find a short-term position teaching overseas, and a school to sponsor your work permit. There is a website called Overseas Digest (overseasdigest.com) which has a section on teaching overseas. www.overseasdigest.com/odsamples/ambrose.html The site has lots of information, links and contacts about teaching and living overseas.
If you or your wife are of Irish or Italian descent, you may qualify for Irish or Italian citizenship which would give you the right to work legally and without a work permit in any EU country. (This does not include Switzerland or any country whose admission to the EU is not final.) For info on dual citizenship in Ireland, you might try the Irish Embassy in the US at www.irelandemb.org. For info on whether you qualify for Italian citizenship, take a look at the website for the Italian Embassy in the US at http://www.italyemb.org/. I find this site hard to use, but you may have more luck. Note that depending on your age, you could be subject to being drafted into the Italian army once you become a citizen. Also, note that while the US permits dual citizenship, but does not encourage it. Go to http://travel.state.gov/dualnationality.htmlt for info.
If you have a university degree and other other qualificiations that make you attractive to US companies overseas or to foreign employers, don't rule out actually taking a long-term job in a country and staying for a year or so. A great experience. Classifed ads in English language newspapers, the internet, headhunters, etc would all be good sources.
7. Rather than or in addition to traveling in Europe, I would suggest you consider Australia and/or New Zealand, esp if you want to try to work. There are no language barriers and it is a bit easier to get work (albeit illegally). You will find both very safe, friendly, easy to get around. You should have no trouble finding inexpensive accommodations. You might want to post this question on the Australia and Pacific board. Also check the Lonely Planet website as there are always good ideas there for travel/work options in Australia and Asia generally. I would also recommend Bali as a place to live cheaply and possibly find work, but for various reasons that may not interest you at this time.
Sep 29th, 2004, 11:24 AM
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3 months in Europe is perfect! I did this last year through a study abroad program--so, it's slightly different. A big plus is that no visa is required for a stay of up to 90 days, assuming you are a U.S. citizen. You may want to look into apartments once you've narrowed down your choices of places to visit. If it were me, I'd spend at least a week in each place. Remember to pace yourself. Enjoy yourselves...live the Italian philosophy of "dolce far niente"...the sweetness of doing nothing!!!
I agree with the others, finding work without a permit will be difficult and risky. Besides, this is YOUR time to simply enjoy each other...
I agree with the others, finding work without a permit will be difficult and risky. Besides, this is YOUR time to simply enjoy each other...
Sep 29th, 2004, 11:33 AM
#29
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And back to this apartment idea. You can often rent apartments for the month at a much better rate than by the week, at least like gettin one week free. If you can see your way to spending one month each in three major cities and going out from there, you can save even more. Of course on the other hand, you can still probably rent for a week in a smaller town for less than what you'll pay in the big cities -- so that's a major decision.
Sep 29th, 2004, 01:41 PM
#30
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Dang, $10,000 a month is one heck of a lot of money. But we generally travel 2nd class and prefer a 60 euro a night Gasthaus (as long as it has a private bath) to a 4 star hotel. We would live high on $6000 a month--and, of course, could do it for less if we stayed in "bath in the hall" pensions and ate bread and cheese for lunch and spaghetti or soup night for dinner.
Sep 29th, 2004, 04:13 PM
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I didn't say you DROVE a vehicle with a rumbleseat (and you were the one who said it might have been your "conception namesake"!, not me!)
Anyhow, people drive 20 year old cars now (and especially in the 40's) - - so I didn't think it inconceivable that your parents might really have done some canoodling in one.
Anyhow, people drive 20 year old cars now (and especially in the 40's) - - so I didn't think it inconceivable that your parents might really have done some canoodling in one.
Sep 29th, 2004, 04:23 PM
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Good one, Rex, I don't think it so "inconceivable" either, at least in principle. But trying to picture the "canoodling" in one, makes me wonder if I might not have been "inconceivable" that way.
Sep 30th, 2004, 06:20 PM
#38
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This has to be one of the best threads I've ever read on Fodors. It has plenty of good advice and observations. And it reminds me of some of the best days of my life.
I've done the free lance Europe travel thing a few times, for a few weeks to 3 months to 6 months. It's so bad I just have to keep going back to get it purged from my system.
To answer the two questions of the OP, in my opinion:
Books: read Ed Buryn's <i>Vagabonding in Europe and North Africa</i>. This will drive you mad with envy, and/or build lust for the back roads and barns of Europe, or make you sick with disgust. I am in the envy category.
Live and work: I've done this legally and illegally in several countries. To do it legally you get a job with an American company in the USA and allow them to ship you to their European location for a few years. To do it illegally you go over there and get lucky. For only 3 months do not bother even trying unless you have a good network.
For what you did not ask:
It definitely helps to have a good guidebook. Lonely Planet's <i>Europe on a Shoestring</i> is the best for your intentions. But the essential thing is to think and act indigenously, like you belong there. That's what you can learn from Ed Buryn. Use the grocery stores and not the restaurants. Use the local buses. Rent rooms from residents. Stay off Main Street.
Since the days that I did my vagabonding the internet has come to life. Do google searches for 'europe travel independent' and see what others have done. There are so many others who have hit the road and have written about it that you would be remiss in not taking advantage of the free advice out there. There are thousands of pages that can be of help.
As for cost, don't look only at what it is going to take out of your bank account right now. Look also at consequential effects. For example: for one of my long trips I calculated that a three month loss of wages would cost me less than half of earnings because it put me in a lower tax bracket. I moved out of my apartment and stored everything, saving more again. There is always a way to save a dime.
As you might have guessed I recommend that you follow your wandering star. You will never regret it.
Bring a camera and a notebook. Write down everything. Both of you keep a journal, but don't use one of those fancy things. Use an accountants record book or something like that. For some days you'll write 5 pages and for others much less. These books will be something you will treasure for decades, and more.
Tell us how it turned out. Bon voyage!
Oct 1st, 2004, 08:38 PM
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I always wanted to backpack through Europe, but was too career focused in my 20's. So when I turned 30, I quit my job and decided to go to Europe for only 2 months (what I thought I could afford at the time).
At the end of the 2 months, I sat there in an Internet cafe in Barcelona, depressed and not ready to come home. I had my friend on instant message, and she called the airlines for me. For a couple hundred bucks, they would change my ticket for me. All of the sudden, my 2 month trip turned into 4 months. One of my friends told me, "Mina, when you look back on that time in your life, you will not say 'oh, I'm glad I saved that money and went back into the workforce early!' but instead you will say 'I should have stayed longer.'"
It was the best decision I have ever made. I got a great new job after I came back and recently found out that EVERYONE at my old job got laid off. I unexpectedly met a man who I really ended up liking and who I am still with today. I'm not promising that everything will work out perfectly for you, but just saying that personally, it was a great decision.
You have lots of good advice here on how to do it manageably. Don't rule out independent hostels...may of them have private rooms with double beds. And a lot of people I met for whom budget was a concern ended up parking in the Czech Republic...I ended up spending a good chunk of time there too.
At the end of the 2 months, I sat there in an Internet cafe in Barcelona, depressed and not ready to come home. I had my friend on instant message, and she called the airlines for me. For a couple hundred bucks, they would change my ticket for me. All of the sudden, my 2 month trip turned into 4 months. One of my friends told me, "Mina, when you look back on that time in your life, you will not say 'oh, I'm glad I saved that money and went back into the workforce early!' but instead you will say 'I should have stayed longer.'"
It was the best decision I have ever made. I got a great new job after I came back and recently found out that EVERYONE at my old job got laid off. I unexpectedly met a man who I really ended up liking and who I am still with today. I'm not promising that everything will work out perfectly for you, but just saying that personally, it was a great decision.
You have lots of good advice here on how to do it manageably. Don't rule out independent hostels...may of them have private rooms with double beds. And a lot of people I met for whom budget was a concern ended up parking in the Czech Republic...I ended up spending a good chunk of time there too.
