PalenQ

Eurail Global Pass would make it affordable>

should have said a little more affordable.

janisj

But Pal -- IF he was going to fewer places and IF it was a shorter trip he would have a lot less transport costs.

So it might be a little cheaper w/ a pass but it will still be very expensive.

PalenQ

He has up to $15K for 3 months staying in hostels - says $1K for air fare and say $1.5k for railpass and or other travel expenses - that's $14.5K/month that's still about $130/day for daily expenses out side of travel and flight - enough for three months hosteling (about $30/day avg) so budget is not a problem it seems.

I'd say to shorten the trip because if never traveled abroad or alone he may get homesick - I did after 6 weeks my first time.

suze

<am I underestimating the traveling?>

YES!

<is do a day trip in every other city, and take night trains wherever possible.>

Depends how easy/sound of a sleeper you are and if you get a private compartment, shared compartment, or are in a seat on the train. But while overnight trains can be useful, I wouldn't do it more than once a week max. I can hardly sleep at all even in a private room, so that would get old really quick, arriving a new city, sleep-deprived, every few days!

A day trip in every other city, when you're only staying 2 or 3 nights isn't really practical either from my point of view.

PalenQ

15 of his stays are 4 days or longer- I myself often base in a large famous city and do day trips to smaller regional towns where the live is often quite different.

And Naples for 3 days - begats a day trip to at least Pompeii or Capri.

travelallovernow

I will have ~4 months from the moment I leave my job to my graduate program begins, hence, the 3 month timeline.

I need some help regarding cities to remove, extend, or even add.

Barcelona (booked) / Switz (booked) / Munich / Salzburg /
Venice / Florence / Tuscany / CT / Rome / Naples /
Athens / Istanbul / Budapest / Krakow / Prague /
Berlin / Amsterdam / Bruges / Paris / London

(1) I am in my mid-twenties now, but by the time I am done with school (and be able to travel again) I will be in my thirties. Are there cities you would recommend doing while "young"?

(2) I definitely plan to return to Europe in a few years, but what cities/countries are better for backpacking versus shorter 1-2 week trips?

(3) Experiencing Italy is #1 on my list. Currently, I have 25 nights (including travel) spread between Venice, Florence, Tuscany-area, CT, Rome, & Naples. Is this adequate?

I appreciate your advice--it's be enormously helpful!!

PalenQ

Are there cities you would recommend doing while "young"?

Amsterdam for sure. And no language barrier -many speak English.

Kind of a meeting place for European young folks - many coming for the liberal cannabis scene (coffeeshops allowed to sell legally over the counter cannabis and folks can imbibe inside -convivial places if into that.)

But that is just one aspect - lots of nice youth hotels with others your age from all over the world.

If into nightlife London for sure and again no language barrier besides a rather corrupted English from some.

bilboburgler

Barcelona (booked) / Switz (booked) / Munich / Salzburg /
Venice / Florence / Tuscany / CT / Rome / Naples /
Athens / Istanbul / Budapest / Krakow / Prague /
Berlin / Amsterdam / Bruges / Paris / London

My thoughts are that you focus in Italy is very northern, while the north is interesting the south is fun. Naples is southern but only just and you have no islands in the mix.

Switzerland, I would avoid, but you've booked it so go for it.

I'd probably drop out Greece and Turkey from this list

PalenQ

Zurich and Lucerne for 2 days fine but the joy of Switzerland to many are the awesome high Alps - head to the Interlaken area for that and some great youth hotels and many young folks -like in Grindelwald - face to face with glacier-girdled soaring peaks.

do some hiking for a surreal encounter with the Alps. Zurich is a large modern city but your time IMO would be better spent elsewhere.

Why book everything ahead of time - play it by ear -you can always find places in hostels or youth hotels - again get a copy of Let's Go Europe- simply call ahead a few days to be sure.

dreamon

Barcelona (booked) / Switz (booked) / Munich / Salzburg /
Venice / Florence / Tuscany / CT / Rome / Naples /
Athens / Istanbul / Budapest / Krakow / Prague /
Berlin / Amsterdam / Bruges / Paris / London

Geographically, the clear outliers are Athens and Istanbul. They are wonderful cities (especially Istanbul) but if you are not seeing any more of either Greece or Turkey, then I would leave them for another time.

I agree that the best of Switzerland are it's mountainous areas (of which it has many but Bernese Oberland area is a great choice).

If your itinerary is in order, then you'll probably want to fly from Naples to your next destination. Check skyscanner for flight options.

25 days in Italy is a good amount of time and more than many have. I think your choices are fine, although I would perhaps consider excluding Naples and focusing north of Rome. Like many, I've only passed through Naples and I've heard great things about this city so definitely worth your time though if you're interested. There's likely to be more flights from Rome than Naples although I can't be certain of that without investigating. If you keep Rome and Naples, and find flights easier from Rome, then I'd visit Naples before Rome.

Day trips from a base are a good idea, regardless of how long you are travelling, but really come into their own on a longer trip. Moving on to a new hotel every couple of days is manageable on a short holiday but can wear a bit thin over 3 months.

I have not travelled solo like this but I have travelled through Europe over several months several times (I am very fortunate). My experience is that I've sometimes hit a spot where I've had enough and could go home satisfied but a day or two after that, I could keep going for ever.

If travelling for a week or two in the future, then you'll probably find yourself focusing on a small area in more depth, in part because you won't have as much time for long journeys and you may be looking for something more relaxing.

Guenmai

OK. Hmm...Anyhow.... I used to do Europe, for 11 weeks straight, nearly every summer for well over a decade. This was back from the age of 17 and through and after my university days and well into my profession although I took shorter trips when into my profession. I spent 2 decades of summers on extended, European travel and did it solo, 99% of the time, and I'm female.

What I used to do was either get a 2-month or 3-month Eurail pass. I would make one place my base, which was Copenhagen for me, and I would rent a room in a kollegium-student dorm as students rent out their rooms during the summer. It was very inexpensive and I'd get a room for 2 months and then travel to various places when I wanted to do so. But, I had Copenhagen as my base and didn't have to drag all of my stuff around throughout Europe and I could go back and relax, cook some decent food, and see friends that I had met there as there are lots of students still at the kollegiums. Plus, a lot of those new friends would invite me to go with them places and we'd jump on a train and travel to some nearby countries or places within their country together or stay in Denmark and I'd get invited to their parents' summer houses and we would have a great time. But, I took my time during those 11 weeks, and didn't rush around from place to place although I still saw and especially experienced a lot of countries.

I preferred to just kind of go with the flow and not schedule a certain number of days in any one place. I like cities and therefore would usually get a student hotel room in one and then take various day trips to places outside of the cities. One summer one of my friends, from home, came along and also rented a room in the same kollegium. One day we decided that we wanted to go to Switzerland so packed a small bag and off we went on the train and were in Switzerland for about 4 days and then went back up to Copenhagen. We took the night train down to Switzerland in order to not have to pay for accommodations for one night.

My friend and I also took off to Germany, France, Sweden, Norway, and maybe one other country during those 11 weeks. But, it was always good to have a base to go back to as some times we just didn't feel like moving around anymore for a while. And 11 weeks is a really nice amount of time to both chill out and travel.

In my last week or two in Europe, I would then either leave Copenhagen and travel around, pretty non-stop, or move in with a Danish friend until time to fly home. But, I can't imagine having spent 11 weeks and changing places every few days. For me that would not be experiencing much, but to each his own.

I noticed that there are 20 places on your list. Personally, I'd get rid of half of them. I personally like to stay in a place long enough to meet and connect with people and most of them that I connected with back especially, from trip #1, and on into the rest of the 70s and into the 90s, are still friends of mine to this day and I have gone back and forth to Europe to meet up with folks nearly each year since 1973. But, you will need to decide what type of trip that you want and what type of experiences you would like to have. No one can decide that for you.

I agree with 4 nights in Bruges being too much unless it will be your Belgium base and you can then take a day trip to either Antwerp and Ghent or both. And yes, Switzerland is expensive as I went back some years later.

As for the way that I travel now whether in Europe, the long, 6-week trips that I take to S.E. Asia and just got back from, or anywhere else in the world where I've been, I still usually select a base, but in different places, and then travel from the base.

Moving around, every few days, and having to coordinate all the train schedules to all of those new places and then having to wait for the usual 3PM check-in time at various accommodations, is not for me as it's a big waste of time. Plus, check-in times are not always on schedule which I've experienced especially in Europe. These days I fly from place to place as, back in the day, flying within Europe was way too expensive. So, I have done the long train rides like from Copenhagen to Rome and back which I think took over 30 hours then.

So, I would suggest for you to really try to figure out what countries interest you the most, as we all have different interests, and then go from there and not try to pack in a whole lot of places on the first trip and especially if you plan on going back in the future. A lot of people make more than one trip to Europe, and other places in the world, once they've made the first trip.

By the way, I haven't read all of the above comments yet as I just basically went straight to posting. But, good luck in your planning.

Happy Travels!

Dogeared

First let me say that it is good to see you are listening to advice. Many post only looking to get validation of what they have already decided on and don't want to read any of what they see as 'negative' comments on their plan.

OK, your budget is good if you have $15k for 3 months. You can afford a 3 month rail pass with that and so can ignore comments about saving money by moving less and not buying a pass.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't move less, it just means you don't have to consider it from a cost point of view. You have enough money to do as you please. So let's forget about costs.

For the same reason, you can ignore comments like 'avoid Switzerland' since those comments are also based on a misconception that you cannot visit Switzerland as cheaply as anywhere else in W. Europe. You can and you can afford to, so there is no reason to 'avoid' it at all.

So let's start from, you have the time and you have the money to afford to spend 3 months in W. Europe wherever you want to. That then leads us to the next questions.

How to plan your travel and where will you go. The first mistake in my opinion is the assumption that you must plan it. It leads to all the seeming problems you are wrestling with of where and for how long etc.

Most people do plan their travel. We are used to living life according to a schedule and so most simply do the same thing when it comes to travel. So most people will tell you to plan. However, it is not a necessity only an option. You can plan nothing beyond your first stop if you wish. But you will find far fewer people suggesting that since most don't do that. It does not mean either is right or wrong, only different. It does mean you will get biased opinions though. More will say plan even though they have little or no experience of not planning on which to base that opinion.

As the saying goes, 'start as you intend to continue'. What you get used to is what you will probably continue to do for a long time to come. Those who start out 'making it up as they go along' will probably continue to do so. Those that plan every day will probably continue to do that.

One thing I can tell you. I have never seen anyone write a post in which they said, 'next time I will plan more'. But I have seen quite a few people write, 'next time I will plan less.' Usually those saying they will plan less are those who have travelled for a more extended length of time. When you only have 2 weeks, planning or not planning probably won't make much difference but when you go for months, it will.

Much of what Guenmai has written makes sense to me. I don't agree with all of her approach, I would not for instance spend the entire time with one base. I just think it is a waste of money to do that. But it works for her and she has 'continued as she started'.

I do agree with her comment, "I preferred to just kind of go with the flow and not schedule a certain number of days in any one place" I also agree with her comment re getting rid of half the places on your list. But that only applies if you plan at all. If you don't plan, there is no list! So if you followed her first comment to 'go with the flow' the second comment wouldn't need to be said. LOL

Many will say, visit smaller places, not just cities. I personally prefer that as well. However, that does not mean you have to like what I like. If you think about it, what is being suggested is that anyone who only visits cities and moves from place to place quickly is a shallow person who takes no interest in anything in any depth at all. That's actually insulting although I'm sure not one meant it that way. Nevertheless, it is what it implies.

Your interests are your interests and your interests at 20 are no doubt very different from my interests at 71. You should do what you want to do, not what anyone else thinks you should do. But take that back again to planning vs. not planning. You can plan to spend longer in fewer places including some smaller towns or villages as many suggest, OR you can plan to move quickly from just city to city OR you can plan nothing and do as you want, when you want to. You get to decide and the most important thing is realizing that it is a choice you make, not assume there is only one right way to go.

So that leads me to the question of which way is right for you? Well since this is your first time, you don't know and can't know beforehand. Nor can anyone else know which way is right for you and give you the 'right' answer.

To me that means you are going to have to find out after you start out. So to me that means you in fact cannot plan, you must wing it to begin with at least. If after say a month of winging it you find that it is too disturbing to you to not know what you are going to do tomorrow and you need structured travel, then you simply sit wherever you are and make a plan for what comes next. No one actually needs to plan beyond the next step.

Someone else may say that you could start out with a plan and simply be willing to throw that plan out the window if something better comes along. That' will also work as long as you do not lock yourself in to non-refundable costs. There is a psychological barrier with this approach as well though. Once you have a plan laid out, the tendency is to follow that plan and ignore or simply not see opportunities that present themselves to you.

For example, if someone buys a 3 month rail pass, the tendency psychologically is to 'get their money's worth' out of that pass. So it will encourage moving more often and using the pass.

If you met someone in a hostel in say Strasbourg, France and after hanging out together for a few days, this person says to you, 'I've got all the maps to hike across Switzerland from north to south, staying at mountain huts and hostels all the way and it will take 10 days. I plan to take the train to Basel tomorrow and start. Do you want to come with me?' What do you do?

Someone might say, 'oh, I've got my rail pass and I plan to use it to travel to Basel, then Lucerne, then Bern, then Interlaken, then south to Locarno. If I walk it, I've wasted the pass. I'll just meet up with you again in Locarno in 10 days.'

If you find yourself in the south of France on the Riviera, and someone you meet says, 'I've got a sailboat and I am going to sail it to Corsica and spend 2 weeks sailing the coast there. I need another deckhand. Do you want to come?' Do you want to find yourself saying, 'Oh, I've got a rail pass and my plan is to leave for Rome tomorrow where I have accommodation already booked.'

People who plan see a different world from those who do not plan. I think it can be quite difficult for those who plan to simply throw their plan away and be spontaneous to any great degree. Those who do not plan on the other hand can quite easily choose to commit to something planned for the next period of time such as a hike across Switzerland or 2 weeks sailing the coast of Corsica if such an opportunity presents itself.

One other thing I can tell you is that most people will admit that some of the most memorable times in their travels were things they did not anticipate and even could not anticipate.

If you are a very highly organized person (anal retentive in other words) who just hates not knowing what is next, then going with the flow may not work for you at all. But if you like to be spontaneous and do things on the 'spur of the moment', then planning may not work for you at all. Only you know which you are, no one here does.

What matters is that you know you realize you have a choice to make and not assume you must start out with a plan.

bilboburgler

Many words, but some real gems in there

PalenQ

OTOH if you meet someone you want to travel with and are stuck with non-refundable non-exchangeable string of discounted tickets you are stuck - with a pass you can change easily and head to a place not projected.

And the 10- and 15-day Eurail Global Flexipass is idea for an itinerary with bases - use the unlimited travel days to move between bases -no ticking pass.

And money-wise a pass can be cheaper perhaps than a string of discounted tickets especially a youth pass.

dreamon

Some great words of advice above.

The internet has changed travel life, as has the number of people travelling. Once upon a time, most people never booked travel in advance. I know I never did. But with increasing competition for accommodation because so many book ahead using the net I find myself booking ahead too. It's easy to get caught up in that mindset and forget that it's still possible to wing it. But I absolutely agree that if travelling for three months I certainly would not book, or even plan, it all out in advance.

janisj

I agree w/ a lot of the the last three posts. But it isn't always possible to wing it some places/times. Back in the day when many of us started traveling to Europe, hopping from place to place on a semi-whim was almost always doable. When I lived in the UK I would decide on Thurs evening if I wanted to go to Paris for the weekend. But today the Eurostar would certainly be sold out at that late date, many if not all flights would be full and I'd be scrambling to find a place to sleep.

And Hostels were easy to find at the last minute just about anywhere -- but now w/ the ease of booking many hostels book up far ahead just like hotels do.

There are places/times where 'free form' works. But if there is any sort of festival, or major concert, or holiday, or just a really busy time of year . . . you really do need to plan ahead - and sometimes months ahead.

Dogeared

While trying to find bed when a major event of some kind is going on in a city can be a problem, that assumes that you MUST stay in that city on that night. That is of course the opposite of winging it.

I know all the arguments people use against winging it and yet I continue to do so year after year and have yet to have a problem.

I think dreamon on has raised a very telling point. Just about everyone books ahead just because everyone else books ahead and if you combine that with janisj's point that now hostels are booked up or the Eurostar is booked up, etc. it can be scary to consider 'what if'.

But think about it. The average number of no shows for all air, hotel, ferry, etc. bookings is at least 10%. Some here will advise you to book two places and then cancel one after you make up your mind. In other words, people selfishly book things and then cancel them without regard to anyone else.

The third party sites most people use couldn't care less if you cancel or not. They don't work on a customer service basis, they work simply on a quantity based commission business plan. They encourage you to book and feed your fear that if you don't book with them, you will end up 'roomless' and that that is akin to being 'homeless' in the traveller's world. Note how many of those third party sites show you when you look at booking somewhere, 'Only 3 rooms left' etc. That is in fact a scare tactic they are using to get you to book with them.

Before all these third party sites existed, what did we all do? Very few would have attempted to arrange travel and hotel bookings for 3 months of travel. You had to phone every hotel/hostel on a land line paying long distance charges to do so and make a booking for 6 months from now! Would you, could you? Probably not.

Yet, no one says, years ago when I couldn't pre-book everything on the internet using third party sites who scare me into booking, I was always finding myself unable to find a bed to sleep in.

We are becoming a victim of third party booking sites. These parasites who add nothing to the exchange of a room or airline seat provided by a hotel or airline to a traveller, are making money for nothing, your money!

They are the ones with a vested interest in you believing that if you don't book ahead, you will be 'bedless' in Rome or wherever. Yet even if they convince every single person in the world except me, I doubt I will ever end up bedless anywhere. There are always cancellations.

The other big lie is that you will pay more. I don't pay more than anyone else and often I pay less. Like anything else, travel has a learning curve. If you deal with the likes of Booking.com, you never learn how to negotiate a price. You take what they give you and that's it.

I on the other hand negotiate almost every time with hotels. Simple logic tells you if Booking.com says the price is $100, the hotel is not getting $100. Booking.com is getting part of that $100. If I walk into a hotel and say Booking.com shows a price of $100 for a room tonight but I would like to pay them $95 for it, what do you think they say to me? It ain't NO.

For example, I just looked at a hotel in Switzerland I am familiar with. I looked on Booking.com for a week starting April 4 through to the llth. Their price is $613 Canadian and they show it as being a 38% discount, in high demand and only 3 rooms left on their site. Note that last 'on their site'. It means nothing in terms of how many rooms the hotel actually has booked or not but see the scare tactic they are using to try and get you to book with them right now.

You may be still able to see it here:
http://www.booking.com/searchresults..._list_length=0

Now I also happen to know from an e-mail I received from the hotel as a previous guest (but available on the hotel's own website to anyone wanting to book a room at that time), that they will give me that room for a week for $553 vs. Booking.com's $613.

So if I or you wanted that room at that time, all I have to do is pick up the phone (or use Skype for free) and make a call directly to the hotel and I would save $60. Guess who gets that $60 when you book with Booking.com. It ain't the hotel.

If travel forums like this and other popular ones, would spread the word to avoid third party booking sites, we would all be better off in our pockets. We can still access the advantages of the internet directly with the hotels etc. if we want to book ahead but we can eliminate the parasites from the equation.

Third party booking sites do NOT get you the best price, they just get themselves some of your money for nothing.

Guenmai

"Much of what Guenmai has written makes sense to me. I don't agree with all of her approach, I would not for instance spend the entire time with one base. I just think it is a waste of money to do that. But it works for her and she has 'continued as she started'.

For me, having my base in Copenhagen, for most of the 11 weeks, worked well because, geographically, I could travel north to Sweden, Norway, and Finland and/or south to Germany, Holland, Belgium, France, Switzerland or Italy. So, by having that base, it gave me a lot of choice and flexibility. Plus, I'm just one who, personally, doesn't like to feel in limbo for 11 weeks straight. But, different folks travel differently.

I paid a very small, monthly rent for the room that I rented in the kollegium as there were always students who were away, for the summer, and either traveling themselves or living back at their parent's house in another part of Denmark. But, they still had to pay their rent, in order to keep their room for when school started up again and many times one could get the room for a very reduced price.

I was suggesting to the OP that not only having one base can be quite helpful, but one can have more than one base and then travel from selected bases. I also do this on my trips to S.E. Asia where I actually have 3 bases, but the main one is in Bangkok before moving on to the two other ones. Plus, by staying longer, in one place, I have always gotten discounts and some real substantial discounts. Smiles.

Happy Travels!

Dogeared

A base that might interest you in the future Guenmai or may interest travelallovernow during his 3 months, can be found in Antibes in the south of France. It is a student residence for most of the year although it is a private one, not a university owned facility:

http://www.studiosperlantibes.com/?lang=en#

It is right on the main square in the town. Don't let the rate for one night put you off, the rate by the month is a lot lower, look at the student page for a monthly rate.

jane1144

Also remember that every once and a while you may need some down time to do laundry, recover from a cold or other minor illness, etc. etc. Sometimes you might just want a "day off" from absorbing so many new experiences. Have a wonderful trip!