Hello! Husband and I are planning a trip to London & Paris. We will be in London for 3 full days, and Paris for 3 full days. I have found quite a few 3-day itineraries online for each place, but they seem very museum heavy. This is what we definitely want to see:

London: The Abbey, Parliament, Downing St, Trafalgar Square, London Eye, Big Ben, Buckingham Palace. Not really so interested in seeing any musuems. We will probably also go to the TKTS booth and then see a show. Trying to figure out the rest of our itinerary and put it all together. As far as lunch/dinner, we are both vegetarians, so suggestions would be helpful. We mostly want to see some of the big attractions, people-watch, take photos, etc. Our favorite area of NYC is Soho and the West Village, so if there's an area of London that is similar, we'd like to see it. We like to see a fun & exciting area of the city, but we're not into bars.

For Paris, we definitely want to see: Arc de Triomphe, Eiffel Tower, Louvre, Pont Neuf, Siene, Notre Dame, & most of all patisseries!! I run a mail-order/catering bakery business, so I cannot wait to visit some of the patisseries in Paris. Suggestions would be helpful. Also, I have heard it is tough to find vegetarian food in Paris, any suggestions?

3 days isn't very long for either city - - but 3 days is a LOT better than no days

As for your London list - most of those things are just short "walk-by's" - don't take any time at all. You won't be going inside Parliament, Downing St, Trafalgar Square, Big Ben, or Buckingham Palace - just looking at them from the outside.

And Downing street -- you really can't even look at it from the outside. You can look at the iron gates that block off the street, and at the police guard in front of that gate -- but that is all there is.

Of your list only the Abbey (which is across the street from Parliament/Big Ben) and the Eye are "go inside and see things" sorts of places. So you will have time to do a LOT more than your meager list.

In Paris - of your list only the Louvre and waiting in line to go up the Eiffel Tower will take any time. You don't have to "schedule" time to see the Seine since you will be on/near it many times every day.

Hi E,

>For Paris, we definitely want to see: Arc de Triomphe, Eiffel Tower, Louvre, Pont Neuf, Siene, Notre Dame,
You might prefer the d'Orsay to the Louvre.<

Take the Metro to the Arc. Walk DOWN the Champs to Notre Dame. Look to your right now and then. You can't help but see the Eiffel tower.

Spend the other two days enjoying Paris.

There is no need to give you advice on patisseries - they are all over.

See www.pagesjaunse.fr

You might like to try the macarons at Pierre Herme' and Laduree.

< The Abbey, Parliament, Downing St, Trafalgar Square, London Eye, Big Ben, Buckingham Palace >

so what will you do with the other 2.5 days in London - all the places you mention are within a few hundred yards of each other and can be "knocked off" in a morning (or afternoon if you aren't a morning person).

In the immediate area there's also the Cabinet War Rooms, Horse Guards (photo op of you with horse & man in shiny armour), National Gallery, National Portrait Gallery and Covent Garden.

For another day I'd recommend The Tower of London followed by a trip to Greenwich or if the weather is lousy a trip to any of the major museums (British, V&A, Natural History, Science, is a must.

It's slightly out of the way but a visit to the British Library is recommended if only to see things like the Lindisfarne Gospels, Magna Carta, Scott's diary

"so what will you do with the other 2.5 days in London"

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I thought other folks here would help to provide some suggestions.

I would also say Tower of London should be on your list. Do a quick search for Ceremony of the Keys also which will get you into the tower for closing ceremonies. It was a highlight of our trip. Note...dont skip the tower during the day as you wont get to see the crown jewels and the rest of the facility during the ceremony. As an added bonus it is also free as I recall. Tower of London will take a pretty good amount of a day but it is well worth it.

I'm trying to figure out how much should be done each day. When we first get to London, I think we will do the Big Bus tour, and then pass out due to jet lag. On our first full day, I'm thinking of heading to the Westminster area for the following: The Abbey, Parliament/Big Ben, Buckingham Palace, London Eye. Should we do Covent Garden on this day? What about Soho? In the evening, we'd like to go to dinner & then see a show. We also want to go shopping around Regent Street and see Trafalgar Square. I want to see the Tower of London also - I forgot to put that on my list, thanks for reminding me. Does this fit in with Day One?

Europebound:

I did the exact same trip three years ago, three days in London, three days in Paris and one day in London. Totally doable. My husband and I did the bus tour the first day since we had some jet lag. The next couple of days we did our own walking tours, which were great. Many of the tour books will give you suggested walking tours depending on how much time you have. In Paris, we just walked and took the train everywhere, it was great!

Definitely do the double decker bus tour in London...great way to get acquainted with the city and recover from flight. As a vegetarian in London I had some of the best Indian food I've ever eaten.

In Paris...just wander...and wander. I just love walking through that city.

europebound: On the bus tour you will drive by and stop for photo ops at Parliament/Big Ben, Buckingham Palace, and other places on your "walk by" list. So no need to schedule them on the 2nd day too.

When we said many of those things only take a few minutes, we meant it. If you do the Big Bus on day one you will have 2 full days for the Abbey, Tower of London, shopping, Covent Garden etc etc.

You don't say WHEN you are doing this trip. If you say when you will be there,it will be easier to advise of the best attractions.

Lots of good Indian restaurants in London, which offer vegetarian meals. Pretty much all restaurants will offer SOMETHING vegetarian--just like in America.


No museums? Shame, London has some good ones--my favorite is the Cabinet War Rooms.

Look into London Walks, might be fun for you.

Paris..Well, you'll see the Seine for sure, and the tower, you can't help it,its..there! None of what you listed will take much time, with the expception of the Louvre, which made me both suicidal and homicidal both times I was there (most crowded place EVER). But of course worth it, it's gorgeous.

Just take time and explore the cities..get a good guidebook and map.

Oh - meant to add - the open top, hop-on-hop-off bus tours in Paris are just as good as the Big Bus in London. If you take one of those, you will see most of the things on your Paris list.

At your arrival airport you can buy for 2 pounds 50 the events magazine Time Out, to look for good plays on the fringe at 15 pounds a seat. As Jansi says, you cover the rest of your list in half a day. I expend your plan a little in my note on a first visit in London, which is this.

FIRST VISIT TO LONDON

Visitors need some London geography and history. So at a newsagent’s shop in their arrival area at Gatwick, Heathrow or Waterloo International they should buy for 3 pounds 95 pence the AZ Visitors Atlas and Guide to London. The page
http://www.a-zmaps.co.uk/asp/details...=1-84348-205-3 describes it. It is convenient, small, and spiral-bound, and gives places, costs, and opening times. In the same shop they can buy for about four pounds the weekly events magazine, Time Out. At any tube station, including Heathrow and Victoria, they can have free the London Travel bus map of central London, with many places marked, beside the bus routes (a London travel card covers not just tubes and central London trains but also busses). It may become worn out, so they can ask for two.

A good guide to geography is to use an ordinary travel card on the first day in town, take the bus map, sit high in the front of the bus, and trace where they are as they ride roughly west to east, from South Kensington, to Harrods, Hyde Park Corner, the edge of the Royal parks, Victoria, Westminster, the London Eye, Whitehall, Trafalgar Square, the Thames Embankment, British Museum, St Paul’s Cathedral, Museum of London, and the Tower. With luck they will have English children for company: they should please not sit in front of them. For 12 pounds they can take a hop-on, hop-off one-day open-topped bus, and have a commentary. Neither system takes them past Buckingham Palace, as the Royal Parks are closed to busses and tradespeople.

A good guide to history is to visit on their first day in London the Museum of London, and take three hours to see the displays, carefully, and use the café. Again they should carry the bus map, to see where things are. The museum is a quarter mile north of St Paul’s cathedral, so they can go to the cathedral first, then slowly tour the museum. The cathedral first, because it opens earlier than most places, at 08.30. It is closed to tourists on Sundays, but open to worshippers for beautiful liturgy at ten. Visitors should check in Time Out magazine, or on line before they leave home.

In general, they want to use hours when good places are open earlier or later than most places. The AZ Visitors Atlas and Guide shows these. Main rooms of the British Museum open on Thursday and Friday to 8.30. to show great monuments of the ancient cultures. I encourage people also to take the lift in daytime hours up to the rooms for Roman Britain and Anglo-Saxon England, with splendid funereal treasures, even though the province of Britannia was on the edge of the known world.

The Abbey opens from 0930 and combines well with Parliament, Big Ben, The London Eye, Cabinet War Rooms, Whitehall, and the Horse Guards. Visitors should check online for the days and times of changes, easier to see and less packed than the change of the foot guard at the palace. The National Gallery opens on Wednesday to 9pm, and the National Portrait Gallery on Thursday and Friday to 9pm. The Tower opens at 0900 and any tube ticket office sells entry tickets, which saves a queue at the Tower entry gate.

People who come here have in their head a list of famous places like these. Most of these deserve to be famous, but some do not: Madame Tussaud s, the London Dungeon, and Buckingham Palace are dull, or vulgar, or expensive, or a combination. Visitors who miss these make time for places less well known, that respond to their personal interests, professional or as hobbies. For example we have small museums on nursing and banking, and an hour into Kent we have the house of Charles Darwin, fascinating, and well set out. If visitors ask Google for museum banking London or museum nursing London they will see what there is, or more simply they can use the Atlas Guide book. Failing Google, would visitors please ask me. For example, there may be a specialist shop to meet their tastes: there is a shop for umbrellas !

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There is good vegetarian FOOD in many ethnic houses.

For Indian meals the Bengali restaurants on Brick Lane, north of Aldgate
East station and on Drummond Street, just west of Euston main line station.

For the West End a Chinese meal between Shaftesbury Avenue and Leicester
Square (using Piccadilly Circus tube), or one of the many restaurants in
Shepherds Market, 400 meters north of Green Park tube station, or Gordon's
Wine Bar on Villiers Street, between Embankment and Charing Cross tube
stations.

On the South Bank, the Tas chain of Lebanese restaurants, authentic and licensed
33 The Cut, near the Young Vic, Southwark tube
20-22 New Globe Walk, near the Globe Theatre, Mansion House tube
72 Borough High Street, near Borough Market, London Bridge tube.

Nearly all pubs with lunches offer light or full-weight vegetarian plates, such as ploughman’s lunch.

Areas with atmosphere are in my notes on self-directed walks. In summer 2001 I wrote these notes:

FROM NEAR VICTORIA STATION

Across the road the Royal Mews, with the royal coaches.
Next, Buckingham Palace, thoroughly boring, with the changing of the guard, which you wait for for ages and then cannot see
Along Birdcage Walk the Guards Museum and their chapel
Ten minutes further along Birdcage Walk, up Cockpit Steps, the Two Chairmen pub, eighteenth century, with decent lunch (all ages) and supper (adults only)
Just south of there, St James Park tube station, with an interesting shopful of tube and bus souvenirs
At the eastern end, the Cabinet War Rooms, redolent of Winston Churchill

Now we'll diverge in front of the Palace, walk a little way along the tedious Mall, turn left, and pass St James Palace. If you turn left again here you can inspect the boots of the Guardsman on duty. They should shine like glass. Now a shopping walk. Up St James past Lobb's hatters and Berry's wine merchants (both By Appointment). A view of The Economist's new building and some eighteenth century gentlemen's clubs. Round here are Spinks, for medals, and Sotheby's, for profits. A right turn along Jermyn Street takes you to the people who sell me club ties, in silk, and Paxman's delicious cheese shop. Across from them is St James Church, eighteenth century, good for lunchtime recitals. If you walk straight through that you're in Piccadilly, now overfull of airline offices. No matter, turn back, left from St James churchyard, and you can look into the Princess Arcade, and on the other, north, side of Piccadilly at The Royal Academy and then the Burlington Arcade, where you may not whistle. From the far or northern end of that you can zigzag to the Royal Arcade, with the silver shop that sold me my cutlery -- right out of my class, of course, but I see it as an investment. You must ring the bell to go in.

This time, we'll diverge south from the palace, along Buckingham Gate, cross the boring postwar Victoria Street (but pause to admire the Albert pub: good meals upstairs and down), and walk among the rich politicians' houses of Great Peter Street with a diversion into the street market on Strutton Ground to Tufton Street. Turn left, or north, here, pass a small gateway, and you're in Dean's Yard. Turn right, or westwards, into a medieval passageway and you're in the Abbey cloisters. If you walk quietly, disturb nobody, and observe any "private" signs you're among clergy houses and School buildings. Then, I imagine, you might go to the House of Commons to ask the policeman on the door whether you may see Westminster Hall. If not, cross the river as a consolation prize, and see the Florence Nightingale Museum at the eastern end of St Thomas Hospital (where my father taught anatomy before Hitler's war).

THE STRAND, a three hour walk

Like Zagreb and Berlin London grew around two medieval centres, in London the City for living, making, and trading, and Westminster for praying and ruling. Each was on the Thames, and the rich, like the kings and Thomas More when Lord Chancellor, moved between them by boat. But the ordinary people walked between them along the northern shore (strand) of the river. You know the word strand from Lewis Carol: "and hand in hand on the edge of the strand they danced by the light of the moon". You know too that we Londoners get bored if a street runs more than a mile without changing its name, so from Westminster we walk along Whitehall (once the king's white hall, a bit like the White House, but a few centuries older), the Strand, and Fleet Street (the street that ran from the Vikings' Old Wyke (Aldwych) to the stinking Fleet ditch, now a clean-smelling railway line with a fine modern art deco station at City Thameslink, a kind of New York Central in miniature.

The mid stretch, the Strand, is as people have said. Space was tight inside the walls of the City, so great and powerful men built their own enclosures or mini-palaces between the Strand and the river. Care for a walk ?

As good democrats we want to walk downstream, from royal power to bourgeois democracy. On the left is St Martin in the Fields. I told you the two settlements had space between them, and St Martin's was in the fields. It is good for lunch in the crypt, but the evening concerts are poor, and there is a better lunch on Villiers Street in Gordons Wine Bar. A little along is the new monument to Oscar Wilde, quite disintegrating, and I think well done. In part it is a bench to sit on. Over the road is the Victorian grandeur of Charing Cross station (trains for Dover and the Continent) and the station frontage, which is the Charing Cross Hotel. If you ask politely you can walk up the grand staircase to see the still grander Betjeman restaurant, with a good carvery. You can see the rooms only if you book there, but the chain, Thistle Hotels, may have current special offers, and it is a good choice. If one shoe of yours is stolen there you need to worry: that is how all that trouble started in first chapter of The Hound of the Baskervilles, in the same hotel. Left of the hotel is a pedestrian street, Villiers Street, down to the river and boats to Greenwich, passing (but I seldom pass) Gordon's wine bar, and in summer to the bandstand for lunchtime music. I once saw a two-hour display of Egyptian belly dancing by London housewives, with their faces covered in beaded yashmaks, and their large and versatile tums all that Rubens could have wished. OK, eyes down, back to the Strand and downstream. Villiers is the family name of the Dukes of Buckingham, whose ornamental water gate is just by the wine bar. At Durham House Buildings you stand by the former London palace of the Bishops Palatine of Durham, whose courts and the king's courts were the only ones in medieval England with the right to condemn to death. Those bishops were not too strong on the sermon on the mount. Well, they could not be: there were rogue Scots cattle thieves just over the border, for whom hanging alone was good enough. You can see there the back door to the Royal Society of Arts, a set of fine town houses, dedicated for the last 2 ½ centuries to the promotion of arts, manufactures and commerce. Benjamin Franklin was a Fellow, and remained so throughout the incidents of 1776. Many fellows felt as he did that there should be no taxation without representation. Their free public lectures now are good, if you can get a ticket: please see http://www.indiana.edu/~victoria/lectures.html. To the north of the Strand are narrow seventeenth century lanes up to Maiden Lane, home of the expensive (£50), unfashionable, eighteenth century, and good Rules restaurant. Please book ahead, and men please wear a tie. On the Strand itself, to the right, is a similar but Victorian restaurant, Simpsons in the Strand. Then almost at once you are at the entry to the Savoy Hotel, reached by the only twenty yards of road in London where you drive on the right. Here the great of Wall Street and Hollywood gathered between the wars to take the world's fastest and grandest ships to New York, starting with a Pullman boat train from Waterloo over the river. If you have the chutzpah you can walk into the Savoy from the Strand, and leave it two floors down by the riverside garden door. Just beyond it, hidden in the buildings, is a medieval chapel, the Savoy Chapel. The hotel and the chapel are both named for Savoy, whose rulers had their London connection here. The chapel is a Royal Peculiar, like Westminster Abbey and the Chapel of Peter ad Vincula in the Tower, which means that the Queen appoints the clergy there. Of her courtesy she now asks the Bishop of London to help, but she does not have to. (Of course, she must ask Tony Blair). Carry on, and the road on the right to Waterloo Bridge is called Lancaster Place, because it was the London territory of the Dukes of Lancaster (York Buildings are a less distinguished street to the west, and as the play Richard III tells you the two Dukes gave up fighting at the Battle of Tewksbury in 1485). If you cross Lancaster Place and walk riverwards a little you can walk down a slope to the newly re-opened Somerset House, good for jewels, Russian treasures, French impressionists, in summer for ornamental fountains and in deep winter for open air ice skating. Next building along is Kings College, with a huge chapel on the first floor, designed to mark the Anglican (that is, Episcopalian) character of the college, in contrast to its contemporary rival, University College, which accepted Methodists, Presbyterians, and even Unitarians, had no chapel, and was called Godless Gower Street. Buried in the college is a grubby street with a grubby window behind which you can discern a grubby Roman bath, in situ 1800 years. Next comes modern Surrey Street (the land of the Earls of Surrey: an old Italian family serve proper tea, no teabags, in their café beside Temple underground station), Arundel Great Court (the land of the Earls of Arundel) and the old church of St Clement Danes. Danes because as I said the Vikings or Danes settled here in their Old Wyke in the ninth century. They did not want to settle in the ruins of Roman London: too untidy. The church features in the nursery rhyme Oranges and Lemons, and now marks the sacrifices of young World War Two pilots who defended us against Hitler. It has a fine interior, always staffed, and you can ask to see the floor monument to the free Poles who flew furiously to honour their oppressed country. West of the church is on your left stand the Royal Courts of Justice, a Victorian extravaganza featuring the lawgivers Moses, Jesus Christ and King Alfred on pedestals, on your right the entrance to Devereaux Court and the lawyers' space of the Temple (good lunch among lawyers at the Devereaux Arms: medieval Templar church in a courtyard), and straight ahead a large statue of a griffin. The griffin is the heraldic supporter of the arms of the City of London, and here the Queen must stop for the Lord Mayor to admit her to his free city. It is not just Benjamin Franklin who wanted monarchs kept in their place.



From BLACKFRIARS to Brick Lane, another three hour walk

Start up at the station concourse of Blackfriars main line station, above the Circle Line. On the west wall of the concourse you see the destinations list from some 120 years ago, when the Company Directors saw this unlikely spot as departure point for Chatham and for St Petersburg. While there was a city of Leningrad the carved stone remained unchanged -- you could say a long-term approach to save money.

Stay at that level, walk eastwards, and you reach a modern wooden sculpture, a totem pole, of the seven ages of man. Drop to the street, admire the pub over the road, cross Victoria Street, go left of the Church of St Andrew by the Wardrobe. It's beside the place where in the middle ages the royal court kept linen and crockery that they didn't need just then. Up St Andrews Hill, turn right, Ireland Yard, Playhouse Yard (from before the Shakespeare time when a Puritan City closed playhouses and sent the actors to the stews of Southwark), and find the door of Apothecary's Hall. The Apothecary's are one of the Livery Companies, and still licence people to practise medicine (though if course not surgery: that belongs to the Worshipful Company of Barber-Surgeons). Now up Black Friars Lane and turn right onto Carter Lane (so called because that's where carts full of goods for and from the City of London rolled to and from the riverside quays and inlets). There are a good grocer, little lanes, and pubs to your right, but it's a bit early yet for a pint, and a cup of coffee in the youth hostel on your left will be a better choice. The hostel is the former Cathedral choir school, converted.

Carry straight on eastwards on Carter Lane, and go into the City of London tourist information kiosk to see what lunchtime music there is at St Anne and St Agnes next day. Out again, and ever eastwards. Turn left at New Change, look behind you to enjoy the 20 year old ornamental clock, and almost at once turn right into Watling Street. You're now on a Roman road. We haven't too many of these. We think that, as in Chester, when Roman buildings collapsed to rubble about the fifth century they made great heaps in the roadway, so it was easier for Saxons to walk parallel to the Roman streets. You'll see that the City of London is still rectangular in layout, as a Roman city should be: the diagonals like Queen Victoria Street are all Victorian aberrations. I'd quite like to close them, and plant gardens there. But a few medieval lanes do coincide with Roman streets. At Bow Lane divert two minutes left, to Bow Church, which serves good vegetarian lunches, looks well, and features in the rhyme "Oranges and Lemons." Now go back down Bow Lane, 200 yards, round St Mary Aldermanbury Church (and pop in, perhaps), and walk up Queen Victoria Street to the Temple of Mithras. We found this only forty years ago. Mithras was a Persian god, brought west by Roman soldiers, and for about a century he ran neck and neck in popularity with Christianity.

A few yards further up Queen Victoria Street, turn right into Bucklersbury, along St Stephen's Row, Mansion House Place, St Swithun's Lane, admire the church with a tube station in the crypt, and as Elliot says in The Waste Land a dead sound at the stroke of nine. Circuit it, and you're on Lombard Street. Lombard, because in the fifteenth century Lombards, people from Milan, Verona, and Padua, came to trade and to found banks. You'll see the many hanging signs of the banks we have now on the street. You realise that the whole rich City around you depends on the need for bankers to meet and talk. If they ever took to video conferencing we'd be in trouble. Even as it is, retail banking is in decline, and you'll have noticed grand bars that are converted banks. Turn right into Pope's Head Alley, skirt the eastern end of the Royal Exchange (founded by Thomas Gresham in the seventeenth century to compete in commodities with Amsterdam, now good for specialist hops), and reach the Bartholomew Lane side of the Bank of England. The small museum there is worth a good look.

Back along the same side of the Royal Exchange, over Cornhill, Birchin Lane, Castle Court, Bell Inn Yard, cross Gracechurch Steet, into Bulls Head Passage, turn left on Lime Street, and into Leadenhall Market, a fine Victorian covered market, painted up like billyo. Those who know the first Harry Potter film will delight to see the corner through which he goes to the market street for his school neccessities – blazer, wand, and so on). In the market turn right, along Leadenhall Place, and at Lime Street (ah, but a different Lime Street) turn left around Lloyds Building, a post-modern thing, onto Billiter Street. Turn right on Leadenhall Street, and take the first right, St Mary Axe, around St Andrew Undershaft church. Look out for St Helen's Bishopsgate church on your left, one of the few gothic churches we still have: the Fire didn't reach it. Walk past it to Bishopsgate. Turn right up Bishopsgate, and drop into Liverpool Street station to admire the roof. After the disgrace of the destruction of classic Euston, this was the first triumph of preserving Victorian station Gothic on the grand scale.

Leave the station, carry on up Bishopsgate, and at the Bishopsgate Institute turn right into Brushfield Street. Admire the fine front doors of the little Hugenot houses of Spitalfields, now under renewal and repair. The Hugenots were Protestants who fled to us in 1689, after the revocation of the Edict of Nantes, and brought with them the knowledge of fine spinning and weaving. They were thus the first big waves of immigrants in modern times. (If idiots say "The British race" I want to know "What British race ?&quot. Wander into and out of Spitalfields Market, cross Commercial Street, and you'll see Christ Church Spitalfields, one of the Waterloo churches built abut 1817 to celebratethe defeat of the French (who were, of course, foreigners and thus thought suitable to be defeated) and to help civilise the slum dwellers of the new Dickensian slums that were growing up all around the inner suburbs. Walk along Fournier Street to Brick Lane and turn left around the mosque. Smell something ? But first, look at the clothes, the gorgeous saris, and go into any supermarket to see mangoes of more kinds than you knew could grow. OK, now your reward. Find a restaurant you like the look of, take advice from the waiter, and have yourself a lager and a curry. Marks and Spencer sell more chicken tikka massala than any other ready-made meal. When Marks and Sparks announced closure in France, troubled British customers rushed along to stockpile ready-made curries. As you look around in the restaurant, you'll see London, my London, any colour, any language, any age.

So thanks for coming with me.


Welcome

Ben Haines
[email protected]

ttt

We'll be spending about the same time in these cities mid next year. Thanks for all the tips. Bookmarking this.

for London- check out "London Walks" there maybe some that you will find appealing.

Bookmarking

thank you ben. saving this one!

also, to the Op you can get half priced tickets to theater at the TKTS booth at leicester square. they usually have a good selection, especially for matinees.

Yes, do try the TKTS booth--also, you can look for discounts at www.broadwaybox.com (click "london discounts&quot in case you want to buy anything before you go (which I sometimes do if there's something I really want to see and I see a discount code for it on that site..)