21st century London. Need some tips
Feb 3rd, 2010, 07:49 AM
#21
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I'm also thinking I'd like to see that huge Hindu temple that's on the outskirts of town. Is it interesting to walk around strongly ethnic neighborhoods?
The 'temple' no doubt is the new one at Neasden and its design has been called one of the most significant new architecture in London
It is in the vicinity of Wembley Stadium and Wembley, where there streets of South Asian shops, etc.
Another ethnic area i visited a few years back was Green Street, in East London and that street could well have been in India some place - sari shops, sweet shops, South Asian restaurants, etc.
Welcome to BAPS Shri Swaminarayan Mandir, Europe's first traditional Hindu temple. Located in Neasden, north London – and popularly known as the 'Neasden ...
www.mandir.org/
The Mandir, London
More results from mandir.org »
Visitor Information - BAPS Shri Swaminarayan Mandir, London
Neasden Station – Jubilee Line (click here for suggested walking route)
www.mandir.org/infogallery/index.htm
The 'temple' no doubt is the new one at Neasden and its design has been called one of the most significant new architecture in London
It is in the vicinity of Wembley Stadium and Wembley, where there streets of South Asian shops, etc.
Another ethnic area i visited a few years back was Green Street, in East London and that street could well have been in India some place - sari shops, sweet shops, South Asian restaurants, etc.
Welcome to BAPS Shri Swaminarayan Mandir, Europe's first traditional Hindu temple. Located in Neasden, north London – and popularly known as the 'Neasden ...
www.mandir.org/
The Mandir, London
More results from mandir.org »
Visitor Information - BAPS Shri Swaminarayan Mandir, London
Neasden Station – Jubilee Line (click here for suggested walking route)
www.mandir.org/infogallery/index.htm
Feb 3rd, 2010, 01:30 PM
#22
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Hi, thanks everybody! Lots to think about here and track down,
Flanneruk,
I get what you're saying about China and the Speaker's Corner, but I have this view that what people call "free speech" is actually more like "free to write it down" or publish it. Even in "free speech" countries people are afraid to say a lot of things to other people who are facing them that they aren't afraid to write. It's takes some courage to say things when people can see who you are and laugh at you. I was thinking it might be interesting to go to Parliament and then go to the Speaker's Corner and figure out who was saner, braver, likely to beat Gordon Brown, etc., lol!
About Scotland Yard: Okay, I won't try to get in (I'm afraid what they'd do!) but I think in America you can tour the FBI building. Most places have a police museum. Does London? What I'd really like to do is go wherever whoever it is watches all the CCTV. I know I couldnt get in, but where is that, anyway?
BBC might be fun. (Isn't the BBC in a building designed by Lutyens?) Likewise, seeing new theater and seeing who goes to new theater, so thanks for all these specifics about where to find it.
What about the upscale? What's the most pretentious neighborhood in London today? That might be a hoot! The least pretentious? The most integrated?
What about the Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods? Interesting? Can I get a good bagel?
Thanks again all!
Flanneruk,
I get what you're saying about China and the Speaker's Corner, but I have this view that what people call "free speech" is actually more like "free to write it down" or publish it. Even in "free speech" countries people are afraid to say a lot of things to other people who are facing them that they aren't afraid to write. It's takes some courage to say things when people can see who you are and laugh at you. I was thinking it might be interesting to go to Parliament and then go to the Speaker's Corner and figure out who was saner, braver, likely to beat Gordon Brown, etc., lol!
About Scotland Yard: Okay, I won't try to get in (I'm afraid what they'd do!) but I think in America you can tour the FBI building. Most places have a police museum. Does London? What I'd really like to do is go wherever whoever it is watches all the CCTV. I know I couldnt get in, but where is that, anyway?
BBC might be fun. (Isn't the BBC in a building designed by Lutyens?) Likewise, seeing new theater and seeing who goes to new theater, so thanks for all these specifics about where to find it.
What about the upscale? What's the most pretentious neighborhood in London today? That might be a hoot! The least pretentious? The most integrated?
What about the Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods? Interesting? Can I get a good bagel?
Thanks again all!
Feb 3rd, 2010, 11:15 PM
#23
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I still think you're confusing a question about "what's interesting about the London people live in" with a question about the tiny proportion of interesting things that postdate WW2.
You just can't ghettoise things in London like that. Most of our lives take place in old buildings, and in much of the centre in streets whose basic plans are unchanged since Roman times.
Take building
A LOT of London's best buildings over the past 15 years fuse old and new. The Millennium Bridge works because it links an early 20th century power station to a 17th century cathedral: St Pancras station (and the now-sleeping Eurostar terminal at Waterloo) are both recent stuff added to 19th c stations: much like the Grand Court at the British Museum, the Sainsbury wing at the National Gallery or Tate Modern.
IMHO, the most interesting recent construction is the network of stations on the late-90s Jubilee tube line from, and east of, Westminster station. "Pure" new buildings are often at best mediocre (anything at Canary Wharf, except for the tube station, the awful stretch of the Thames' South Bank between Hungerford Bridge and Blackfriars Bridge, and most new building east of Tower Bridge)
I've struggled to find an easy source of interesting new buildings, and I'm posting a new thread to seek suggestions. Most people would probably include these buildings, though:
The MI6 building at Vauxhall Cross
The Swiss Re building (aka "the Gherkin")
The London Assembly building ("Glass testicle")opposite the Tower
Lloyds Insurance in the City
The British Library at St Pancras
Possibly the O2 building (once called the Dome) at Greenwich
You just can't ghettoise things in London like that. Most of our lives take place in old buildings, and in much of the centre in streets whose basic plans are unchanged since Roman times.
Take building
A LOT of London's best buildings over the past 15 years fuse old and new. The Millennium Bridge works because it links an early 20th century power station to a 17th century cathedral: St Pancras station (and the now-sleeping Eurostar terminal at Waterloo) are both recent stuff added to 19th c stations: much like the Grand Court at the British Museum, the Sainsbury wing at the National Gallery or Tate Modern.
IMHO, the most interesting recent construction is the network of stations on the late-90s Jubilee tube line from, and east of, Westminster station. "Pure" new buildings are often at best mediocre (anything at Canary Wharf, except for the tube station, the awful stretch of the Thames' South Bank between Hungerford Bridge and Blackfriars Bridge, and most new building east of Tower Bridge)
I've struggled to find an easy source of interesting new buildings, and I'm posting a new thread to seek suggestions. Most people would probably include these buildings, though:
The MI6 building at Vauxhall Cross
The Swiss Re building (aka "the Gherkin")
The London Assembly building ("Glass testicle")opposite the Tower
Lloyds Insurance in the City
The British Library at St Pancras
Possibly the O2 building (once called the Dome) at Greenwich
Feb 4th, 2010, 12:45 AM
#24
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>>Even in "free speech" countries people are afraid to say a lot of things to other people who are facing them that they aren't afraid to write.<<
That may be true, but one thing we are adept at in Britain is taking no notice of people shouting in the street (what with mobile phones, it's less of an oddity anyway, of course). That's why some of us come on boards like this - hadn't you noticed?
The Metropolitan Police apparently opened a collection of some of its memorabilia last summer (not its Crime Museum), but I can't find out much about it. I know there's a collection of river police bits and pieces at the Wapping river police station, which is volunter-run and not always open. Likewise the City of London police have an appointment-only collection.
There will be loads of control rooms looking at different CCTV monitors for different purposes, but by definition, we don't know where they are. Believe it or not, there is a legal issue about data protection if all and sundry knew how to get at them.
Upscale and expensive? Palace Gardens and round the back to Kensington Palace is supposed to be full of Russian millionaires and their bling. Bishop's Avenue in Hampstead.
That may be true, but one thing we are adept at in Britain is taking no notice of people shouting in the street (what with mobile phones, it's less of an oddity anyway, of course). That's why some of us come on boards like this - hadn't you noticed?
The Metropolitan Police apparently opened a collection of some of its memorabilia last summer (not its Crime Museum), but I can't find out much about it. I know there's a collection of river police bits and pieces at the Wapping river police station, which is volunter-run and not always open. Likewise the City of London police have an appointment-only collection.
There will be loads of control rooms looking at different CCTV monitors for different purposes, but by definition, we don't know where they are. Believe it or not, there is a legal issue about data protection if all and sundry knew how to get at them.
Upscale and expensive? Palace Gardens and round the back to Kensington Palace is supposed to be full of Russian millionaires and their bling. Bishop's Avenue in Hampstead.
Feb 4th, 2010, 05:51 AM
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What about the Orthodox Jewish neighbourhoods? Interesting? Can I get a good bagel?>>>
There isn’t one really. Stamford Hill is probably the closest thing – but its dingey and there’s nothing to see (it’s a very high crime area too).
Bog standard jews tend to live in Gants Hill, Golders Green, Hampstead Garden Suburb or my house.
You want a bagel? Go to Brick Lane Bagel Bakery.
There isn’t one really. Stamford Hill is probably the closest thing – but its dingey and there’s nothing to see (it’s a very high crime area too).
Bog standard jews tend to live in Gants Hill, Golders Green, Hampstead Garden Suburb or my house.
You want a bagel? Go to Brick Lane Bagel Bakery.
Feb 4th, 2010, 06:13 AM
#27
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Thanks Cholmondly for the bagel tip. Eating bagels on Brick Lane sounds like the kind of experience I'm talking about. What was Brick Lane before it was the Brick Lane it is today?
flanneruk and patrick london
It is fair to accuse me of confusion about just about anything in this thread. In some senses, I posted a question saying: "London is mystifying me. The guidebooks are useless because they are pointing me to static, fixed things -- because that's what most visitors want to see. Something "British" that hasn't changed since 1066 and all that. I want to understand the present-day dynamics."
I know it's silly to think I'm going to understand that on a visit. But what's a heaven for, etc. Believe me, it's already been plain to me that new architecture in London changed the way people thought about their town and used London, and imagined London had a future to chase. The Tate Modern did that big time, I think, creating that huge public space indoors. I suppose the Eye does that too, although I think I'll skip going on it. But I've been intrigued by this list of new great architecture, although I have seen a lot on previous visits, but I'll look at it differently.
I really wish it was possible to go to the top of the Swiss Re building.
flanneruk and patrick london
It is fair to accuse me of confusion about just about anything in this thread. In some senses, I posted a question saying: "London is mystifying me. The guidebooks are useless because they are pointing me to static, fixed things -- because that's what most visitors want to see. Something "British" that hasn't changed since 1066 and all that. I want to understand the present-day dynamics."
I know it's silly to think I'm going to understand that on a visit. But what's a heaven for, etc. Believe me, it's already been plain to me that new architecture in London changed the way people thought about their town and used London, and imagined London had a future to chase. The Tate Modern did that big time, I think, creating that huge public space indoors. I suppose the Eye does that too, although I think I'll skip going on it. But I've been intrigued by this list of new great architecture, although I have seen a lot on previous visits, but I'll look at it differently.
I really wish it was possible to go to the top of the Swiss Re building.
Feb 4th, 2010, 06:28 AM
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I can’t really comment on Marylebone, but I know Shepherds Bush intimately (and professionally).
In short – don’t go there. There’s nothing there unless you like hanging out with, literally, thousands of Aussies in a huge bar called Walkabout. Other than that there is the Empire – which is a good concert venue – almost totally rock and pop.
The rest of it is as dull as ditchwater. There’s an enormous shopping centre called Westfield in Wood Lane – opposite the BBC studios.
There’s Queens Park Rangers football club and a truly great polish restaurant.
But what on Earth could make you want to go to Shepherds Bush?
In short – don’t go there. There’s nothing there unless you like hanging out with, literally, thousands of Aussies in a huge bar called Walkabout. Other than that there is the Empire – which is a good concert venue – almost totally rock and pop.
The rest of it is as dull as ditchwater. There’s an enormous shopping centre called Westfield in Wood Lane – opposite the BBC studios.
There’s Queens Park Rangers football club and a truly great polish restaurant.
But what on Earth could make you want to go to Shepherds Bush?
Feb 4th, 2010, 06:43 AM
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Marylebone is pretty much the polar opposite of Cholmondley's description of Shepherd Bush. Lots of independent shops, a smattering of cafes, pubs and bars and the Wallace Collection just off the end of Marylebone High Street.
Lots of yummy Mummies and wealthy expats live in the area, so the area caters to them and does so very well in my opinion. I lived there during my student days when rents were more realistic and I still go back regularly as I thoroughly enjoy just mooching 'round the streets, stopping off for the odd drink or bite to eat and watching the (beautiful) world go by.
It's definitely worth a couple of hours of anyone's time, I think.
Lots of yummy Mummies and wealthy expats live in the area, so the area caters to them and does so very well in my opinion. I lived there during my student days when rents were more realistic and I still go back regularly as I thoroughly enjoy just mooching 'round the streets, stopping off for the odd drink or bite to eat and watching the (beautiful) world go by.
It's definitely worth a couple of hours of anyone's time, I think.
Feb 4th, 2010, 06:44 AM
#31
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primera, I'd be interested in your take on Speaker's Corner. No, you won't hear much political give and take.
The couple of times I was there in the past few years, the speakers were largely what I'd call disaffected minorities. One women sharing her mystical crackpot theory was aggressively heckled, and an American with a Southern accent and a cowboy hat reading from the Bible had a large and attentive crowd.
The couple of times I was there in the past few years, the speakers were largely what I'd call disaffected minorities. One women sharing her mystical crackpot theory was aggressively heckled, and an American with a Southern accent and a cowboy hat reading from the Bible had a large and attentive crowd.
Feb 4th, 2010, 06:50 AM
#32
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What's that portentous old line about " A million stories in the Naked City".... or something similar? What London is today, as it probably always has been, will be almost unknowably different for different people: we all have our individual rat-runs and only the most marginal perception what so many other people's will be like.
For the kind of thing you're talking about, I'd second flanner's suggestion of the Jubilee Line extension stations, from Westminster eastwards (when you visit Westminster, bear in mind that they built the Jubilee Line extension and the huge box all the escalators and stairs are in, and the office building above the station, while the District and Circle line trains kept on running through).
For ethnic flavours and mixtures, I think we've covered quite a lot. Brick Lane/Spitalfields on a Sunday, and maybe get a bus up Kingsland Road to Mare St in Hackney (you'll pass various mixtures of Turkish, Vietnamese and hints of Africa and Eastern Europe); Brixton; Southall; Green Lanes.
For the kind of thing you're talking about, I'd second flanner's suggestion of the Jubilee Line extension stations, from Westminster eastwards (when you visit Westminster, bear in mind that they built the Jubilee Line extension and the huge box all the escalators and stairs are in, and the office building above the station, while the District and Circle line trains kept on running through).
For ethnic flavours and mixtures, I think we've covered quite a lot. Brick Lane/Spitalfields on a Sunday, and maybe get a bus up Kingsland Road to Mare St in Hackney (you'll pass various mixtures of Turkish, Vietnamese and hints of Africa and Eastern Europe); Brixton; Southall; Green Lanes.
Feb 4th, 2010, 06:57 AM
#33
I was all set to say seven million stories in the naked city, I've been saying that for years. But google instructs me that it was actually eight million.
http://www.museum.tv/eotvsection.php...code=nakedcity
I used to see the TV crews filming the episodes when I was a kid in New York.
http://www.museum.tv/eotvsection.php...code=nakedcity
I used to see the TV crews filming the episodes when I was a kid in New York.
Feb 4th, 2010, 07:23 AM
#34
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My recent visits to Speakers Corners were a real let down from visits there a decade or more ago - not much political dialogue but a lot of diatribes - lots of religious nutters and militant arnarchists but all in all not the lively cerebral experience it was in the 80s.
Feb 5th, 2010, 05:07 AM
#36
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I love militant anarchists. It seems to me that people will listen to a rant if it's set to music but not if people just rant. I like rants.
About Shepherd's Bush and Marylebone, I asked for your takes because I've been to both and wanted to get some idea if whether we had the same reactions to things. I hated Shepherds Bush (I don't if there were Aussies' there when I was there) but to me it was just a kind of a caricature of a social neighborhood, utterly commercialized. I saw that Marylebone was yuppie, but that also means people trying to work out a different kind of urbanism, experimenting, supporting local shops, and I liked it. I was also thinking about going to the Wallace Collection.
I really appreciate all this info, having it in one place, and I agree with Patrick London that all the basics are here for me to do what I want, even more than enough. What I'm envisioning now is putting together a mix of some old and some new, because whenever I am in London I like to go to the British Museum and the Globe (or find some Shakespeare somewhere), plus the Houses of Parliament and this time fit in the Wallace Collection (I've never seen it) and then mix in the new-resident immigrant neighborhoods, the new architecture, the new performances. Sounds more interesting, to me anyway, than hanging around waiting for the guard to change.
Thanks again!
About Shepherd's Bush and Marylebone, I asked for your takes because I've been to both and wanted to get some idea if whether we had the same reactions to things. I hated Shepherds Bush (I don't if there were Aussies' there when I was there) but to me it was just a kind of a caricature of a social neighborhood, utterly commercialized. I saw that Marylebone was yuppie, but that also means people trying to work out a different kind of urbanism, experimenting, supporting local shops, and I liked it. I was also thinking about going to the Wallace Collection.
I really appreciate all this info, having it in one place, and I agree with Patrick London that all the basics are here for me to do what I want, even more than enough. What I'm envisioning now is putting together a mix of some old and some new, because whenever I am in London I like to go to the British Museum and the Globe (or find some Shakespeare somewhere), plus the Houses of Parliament and this time fit in the Wallace Collection (I've never seen it) and then mix in the new-resident immigrant neighborhoods, the new architecture, the new performances. Sounds more interesting, to me anyway, than hanging around waiting for the guard to change.
Thanks again!
Feb 9th, 2010, 05:12 PM
#38
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Sorry I missed your post before, JayG. Just catching up now.
I've been to the Courtauld many times and I love Somerset House. I try never to miss that, and what's on there if I think it interesting. I'm looking forward to finally seeing the Wallace Collection. Sounds perfect for a rainy day.
I've been to the Courtauld many times and I love Somerset House. I try never to miss that, and what's on there if I think it interesting. I'm looking forward to finally seeing the Wallace Collection. Sounds perfect for a rainy day.
