For years,I have been hoping and planning for a white Christmas/Christmas with Christmas markets but, due to one reason or another, never managed to go. And meanwhile, I got 2 children and the dream became more difficult to be realised.

Finally, this year, my husband and I talked this over again and decided we will make it in 2010.

So, we are four - 2 adults and 2 young children (4 years and 2 years at the time of travelling). We can spend a maximum of 13 nights there. We are planning to arrive and depart from Munich. And we want to spend time in Munich and Salzbug. And we don't plan to drive.

My question is 13 nights seem to be a bit too long for these 2 places, given that we don't have a car, although we can do a day trip or two with public transportation. Should we add 1 more place? If so, where (with easy access)? Or should we reduce the holidays to say 10 nights on the ground and base only in these two places?

With luggage, a stroller and 2 children, I am trying to keep it simple. So, if we have to take a train, I am trying to limit it to the direct ones, without connection. And because of this, I feel that we are a bit stuck.

I have been going through old posts for the last few days and got some ideas but am not sure yet, for instance, any place like St Giglen will be good in winter and without a car. I am also not sure if a ski resort is a good choice, since we don't ski.

Can you help me to make this trip so that finally I can have my dream come true?

Thanks in advance.

I would add Vienna. It's a relatively short train ride from Salzburg and they have a very nice Christmas market in the "old" part of town. It's a very festive place to be during the holidays.

St. Gilgen is one of our favorite places altho we haven't yet been during Christmas. You'd have to rely on the bus, however, if you don't have a car as there is no train service.

Hi maxi,

I think your plan is good; I personally wouldn't want to stay in more than two places in two weeks with all the luggage, stroller, kids --

Yes, you get to St. Gilgen by bus; it's very easy and a relaxing and scenic ride. The bus departs from the train station.

I myself don't much care for cities, and with Salzburg (great choice by the way) I think I would go for a smaller town or village as your second destination. For instance, you could stay in my own town of Garmisch-Partenkirchen and be wonderfully situated to see Innsbruck, Mittenwald, the castles near Füssen, and Oberammergau -- all are easy as pie as day-trips with public transport. Plus, you could spend one or two days just playing in the snow, either sledding or on a winter walk though the Alps.

If I were you, I would do this:

Fly into München and go directly to Salzburg, stay there five or six nights. Spend your days visiting the Christmas market, visiting nearby towns like St. Johann, Zell am See, Kitzbühl, Berchtesgaden, St. Gilgen, etc, or just walking in the mountains aournd the city.

Then go to Garmisch(you'd probably have to backtrack through München), and stay five or six nights.

Then to München for one or two nights before you depart.

Hope you're having fun with all the different options!

s

Munich and Berchtesgaden are a "must" for Christmas. Absolutely gorgeous in the snow. Salzburg's Christmas market is fantastic too. We've spent 4 Christmasses in the last 7 years in Bavaria/Tyrol and never get tired of it. It brings back lots of childhood memories for us with the snow falling, the smell of wood burning, the sound of bells everywhere and the total absence of inflatable Christmas decorations.

Hope to see you over there in December because we plan to do it again this year.

I would suggest that you consider a car for at least a few days. Munich is great but there are a number of great places within a short drive. I have a vision of doing that on a train with the stroller, luggage and all. You won't need a car while you are in Munich but it will free you up to see some other places. Contact Gemut.com for a good deal on a car. Get the GPS unit and you will find it invaluable both navigating Munich's streets are you leave town and every little village on your way.

The things on my "A-List" around Munich are (in no particular order) Rothenburg, Dinkelsbuhl, Fussen (Neuschwanstein) Wiessekirche, Oberammergau, Ettal Monastary, Mittenwald, Berchtesgaden and of course Salzburg.

Hmmm.. with two small kids, I would certainly want a base and then do sightseeing from there. I have gone thru this experience - dragging a kid along sightseeing. Not fun. First, I would make Munich my base for several days. Why?- because there are things for the kids to do too - not just travelling from one place to another to sightsee the whole trip long. Of course, in winter, activities are limited to indoor ones like the Sea Life Aquarium and museums. It is tiring for the kids to be on the go all the time. The Christmas markets (there are several) are magical and some offer activities for kids too! During your stay here, I would take the suggestion of AisleSeat and rent a car for doing day trips. There are many places within an hr to 2 hrs travelling time from here. I wouldn't travel further on a day trip. Except for Rothenburg and Dinkelsbuhl which I consider too far for a day trip, I would go to any of those in AisleSeat's A-List. A car would be necessary and may be less of a hassle with kids and will cut down your travelling time. On the other hand, if you decide to go to places serviced by trains, your kids will travel free. Salzburg is one place you can get to by train. To take in the Christmas market and sightsee, I would stay at least overnight. Of course, if you are going to travel further into Austria, then you may wish to make it a base as well.
Do note that there is no guarantee that you will see snow in December in Munich itself. However, there will be snow in the Bavarian Alps and a trip to one of the towns mentioned by Swandav2000 will be lots of fun for the kids - sledding and throwing snow balls. One place guaranteed to have snow is the Zugspitze, which is the highest mountain in Germany.
If you do day trips by train out of Munich, there is a train ticket called BayernTicket which costs €29 at the moment - the price keeps increasing! Both adults can travel on it return but you are limited to regional trains and must travel after 9am on weekdays.
I have two suggestions - 1. rent a holiday apartment wherever you make your base. Most rent for 7 days but there are some which accept shorter stays. I find this so much better with kids instead of being stuck in a tiny hotel room. And you can prepare simple child-friendly meals 2.spend a couple of days in one a mountain village high enough to have snow. Fantastic atmosphere in winter.

If you are flying in and out of Munich, then I would drop Vienna - unless you fly out from there. There is enough to do in Bavaria. St Gilgen is on Wolfgang lake. There are two other villages on that lake and every Christmas, you can travel to all three by boat to the Christmas markets. But the markets are small and aren't all that different. There is skiing in the area altho I am not sure how you will get around without a car. I have no experience there. Only went to the Xmas market at St Wolfgang which we went through pretty quickly.

Thank you so much for all your valuable opinions. A lot to look at and a lot to think about. Meanwhile, I already booked our tickets, arriving on December 17 and departing on December 30, having a total of 13 nights on the ground.

At the moment, we are still planning not to rent a car because we are not sure about driving in the snow/ice. We are also more attracted to smaller places, and since we can fly direct to and from Munich, we are not considering the possibility of going to Vienna.

Now, after reading all your posts and researching on the places mentioned, it really looks like Garmisch-Partenkirchen will be a good place for a few days. Originally I was trying to go to Munich and Salzburg for the markets before going somewhere smaller for the experience of being in a small town (eg. St Giglen). But now it seems that it is more logical to go to Salzburg for the markets and go to Garmisch-Partenkirch for Christmas and finish in Munich.

One question: if we do go to Garmisch-Partenkirchen from Salzburg, what will be the easiest way? If we go by train, do we need to go up and down in the Munich train station when we make the connection? Is there an elevator?

And any suggestions on places to stay, especially for Christmas in Garmisch-Partenkirchen?

Thanks again. You have given a lot of help. I really appreciate it.

In Munich there is no up and down unless you are taking the U bahn or S bahn. And for those there are escalators. The tracks are all on the same level. The train station is very easy to navigate. And there are all kinds of food right in the station.

Hi maxi,

Yes, the tracks to/from Salzburg and the ones to/from Garmisch-Partenkirchen are on the same level -- though they are at the opposite ends of the station! I've done this trip a few times, and it'll take about five minutes just to cross the length of the station.

I suggest you think about renting an apartment for your stay in Garmisch, as it will give you a little more room. You can find hotels, pensions, and apartments at one site,

www.gapa.de

Sorry, I haven't ever stayed in a hotel or apartment here in town, but I may be able to help you with location and bus stops, etc.

Hope you're enjoying the planning!

s

If you want to go to Garmisch from Salzburg, you will have to come back to Munich to change trains. Trip takes almost 4 hrs. Garmisch is really lovely and you can easily go to Mittenwald from there for about €4 one way. So pretty.

When I travel around Germany with my family, we always rent apartments and they are much more affordable than in lots of other countries. As an example, we rented a lovely 1-bedroom apartment in Berchtesgaden for €50/day plus €30 for final cleaning at the end of summer. My daughter slept in the living room on a very comfortable sofa bed. Some owners are able to provide high chairs and baby cots. However, you will not get that kind of price in Munich. Oh yes, prices in places that offer access to skiing are higher than in summer.

If you do end up booking in Garmisch, you may consider taking the kids swimming to the Alpspitz Wellenbad for some water fun.

To view the website given above in English look here - http://www.gapa.de/en/index.html

With regards to renting a car, yes, if it does snow and get icy, it is a good idea to stay away from driving if you have no experience in this area. However, like I mentioned in my previous post, there may still be no snow when you arrive. You can check out the situation when here and if the roads are clear, rent a car for the day. But don't forget that you also have to ensure that there is no snow in your destination.

And one last thing, if you come back to Munich after Dec 24, there will be no more Christmas markets. There will however be Christmas Sales!

Thank you again for all your suggestions. I do hope that Garmisch-Partenkirchen will not disappoint us. And I am hoping that the sales in Munich will be good, although, with two kids, I am not sure how much shopping I can do.

Now, my itinery goes like this:

We arrive in Munich airport early in the morning on December 17. We are planning to get a direct transfer to Salzburg and stay there for 5 nights. I am hoping to enjoy the city and the markets and do at least a day trip to St Giglen/St Wolfgangsee. (I am refraining myself from going to Hallstatt that everybody praises because of travelling time from Salzburg).

Then we will go to Garmisch-Partenkirchen on December 22 and spend 5 nights there. I am planning to go to Mittenwald and perhaps Fussen during our stay there. Is Fussen too far by public transportation?

Then we will move to Munich on December 27 and spend 3 nights there. No day trip.

And we will depart on December 30.

How does this sound?

Hi again,

Yes, I like your plan; I think it will give you a good visit here!

You can check out your trips at the German rail site

www.bahn.de

For your trip to Füssen, you need to use the correct spelling, as there is a town called "Fussen" that is farther north. To get to Füssen and its castles, use "Fuessen," and you'll find that the trip from Garmisch will be around 1h49 or 2h06 with a change in Ruette, or 2h15 by direct bus (the bus goes by Ettal and Oberammergau, both nice stops also). A stop closer to the castles is "Hohenschwangau."

Have a great trip!

s

There's enough to do if you want to only do Munich and Salzburg. It's easy to get from one to the other by train (details: http://www.visitingeu.com/western-eu...-salzburg.html). The Christmas markets in Munich are great, and if you want to do a day trip to Nuremberg for the Christmas markets there, that would be easy as well.

While I would have stuck with Munich and Salzburg, your plan is better than having Vienna included IMO.

For me, I would be bored in Garmisch for that many days but we do enjoy it as a day trip from Munich.

Munich and Salzburg are both great cities and make excellent bases for daytrips. We are headed back to Germany and Austria for the markets this year and it will be our 6th visit at this time of year. It is really something special!

Thanks again for all your replies!

When I thought that I have settled with the 5-5-3 itinerary, I am reading two consecutive posts recommending sticking with Munich and Salzburg.... They made me wonder what really would be better. It's a difficult decision!

kfusto, before I posted my questions, I already read through some of your posts and trip reports, specially the one you did regarding your trip to Munich, Salzburg and Vienna. It was very helpful indeed.

You have had many good itinerary suggestions already, but may I add one other bit of advice: on Christmas Eve and Day most restaurants will be closed and those that will be open are likely to be fully booked. It might be worth your while to reserve a room at a hotel that has an on-site restaurant and to confirm that their restaurant will be open on both days. Another option is to stay at a holiday apartment over that period (if you find one in your budget) so you can eat when and what you want (lots of edible goodies at those Christmas markets).
Also, if you decide to stay in a holiday/ski town like G-P over Christmas, reserve your room as soon as possible. The most popular hotels (in all budgets) do fill up early. Many hotels offer nice Christmas packages that include little gifts for children, even a visit from Santa Claus plus beautiful decorations in their lobby/lounge and dining areas.