tarunm1982

Hi guys ,
I am planning to visit following places during my 12 day visit to Italy in early dec.
Starting from Rome. check in .
Rome - 2 days
Rome to Tuscany
Tuscany - 2 days - visit Siena , Florence , Pisa , Umbria?
Tuscany to Venice
Venice - 2 days
Venice to Milan ( 1 or 2 days )
Milan to Bologna ( 1 day )
Bologna to Amalfi Coast/Naples/Pompeii ( 2 days )
Sicily ??
Back to Rome - spend remaining 1 day or more there. Visit Vatican City . Fly back from Rome

Does this itenary look ok for early dec. Please comment and suggestions are welcome. And wat would be the best mode of transport between these places ? Shall i drive or take trains/buses ? Do we need to reserve train tickets beforehand? . How is the frequency of trains ? And do comment on approx time of travel between these places if its considerate ?
And shall i give a thought on visiting swiss/paris from milan abd back to replace the last 3-4 days of my iterary. Wat do u suggest ? Thanks in advamce

kfusto

"Does this itenary look ok for early dec"

No, it is far too rushed. Have you actually plotted out your transfer times between these cities on your list? You are all over the place.

Are you planning to rent a car or use public transport?

Cut out out the Amalfi Coast (not a good choice for December anyway) and add the days to Rome and Tuscany. Keep Naples and Sicily for another trip.

In 12 days (does that include travel days?) I would fly directly into Venice and stay for 3 nights. Next head to Tuscany. Perhaps base in Florence for 4-5 nights and see Siena and Bologna as day trips from there, very easy via bus and train.

Spend the remaining time in Rome and visit Umbria from there.

To do much more will have you experiencing nothing but train stations.

zeppole

You are going to have to make some choices about what you want to see most. Remember that the days keep getting shorter in December, so if you spend so much time traveling, you have very little daylight left to see anything once you arrive. It is really not possible to see most of Italy in 12 days.

SInce your trip is so far off, and it is easy to book hotels last-minute in December, you should spend more time with a good guidebook.

franco

As the others said, that itinerary is totally unreasonable. Days are so short in December that you have to count two December days for a normal summer sightseeing day, more or less. So what you could do is stay two December weeks in Sicily, for example (where the weather is going to be warmer than most other regions, of course); you have no chance to see all of Sicily in two weeks with those short days, but you could do the north and east/southeast, probably. Or you could stay in Rome and do one or two daytrips. Or you could base in Florence (which must be nice without the summer tourist crowds) with some daytrips and then go to Siena, for example, for the second part of your stay. Or you could stay in Venice for one week or ten days (that's one of the greatest times for Venice, I'm going almost every December, and spend the rest of the time in the Veneto region (Padova, Vicenza, Verona, Montagnana). Whatever you choose, concentrate on one region; I'm advising everybody to do so all year round, I know, but in December, the reason why I do so is less philosophical than otherwise, and just practical thinking: days are too short to waste daylight on traveling all over the peninsula.

jabez

"Days are so short in December that you have to count two December days for a normal summer sightseeing day, more or less. "

Franco brings out an important fact many folks don't often think of. I often travel to Italy in October. It's a great time to visit, but I sacrifice the much longer days of May and June (months I also try and stay there).
I've only been to Italy once in December and once in November. Less crowds, but much less to see. Even many sites and museums close earlier during these shorten months.
I love Rome and usually recommend it first, but Venice and Florence are other great bases. Stay in one place and do day trips.

SOCALOC

I agree with others, you're trying to pack in too much. We spent close to 3 weeks starting in Rome and doing the areas north that you are mostly trying to see, ending in Venice. Then we returned to Italy another time to experience Amalfi coast area. Remember, it's your honeymoon - romance is slow. And personally, I think south of Rome and the Amalfi Coast will be a much more memorable time if you go when it is warm. It's an international destination in the summer. Don't worry about the weather. We were there in October, it rained in Rome on occasion. One of my favorite memories is walking through Rome under an umbrella with my DH and having dinner outside under an awning in the rain. Very Romantic. We also unexpectedly experienced hail in Tuscany. It was Under the Tuscan Hail instead of Sun. No biggie. Italy is a beauty, with so many wonderful things to experience. You'll love it. And congratulations on your engagement!

tarunm1982

Thanks..
So wat i get is days are shorter. Means i should have things to do wen its dark. So wat activities and places can be planned in the dark?
In day time we can concentrate on sight seeing places - museums ( i assume they will get closed in evenings) , monuments , gardens etc.
after sunset - we can walk around in city area - shop , dine out etc. wat else to do ? and can we travel between cities in train wen its dark.
Rome being the start and end point is fixed. and i get 12 full days in italy. And i am coming from thousands of miles away. May not get another chance to visit italy.
I can start at rome - 2 days. Head straight to Venice - 2 days. Back to Florence ( visit Pisa , Siena , Tuscany , Bologna) - 4 days. Then head to Naples/Pompeii - 2days. Head back to Rome - spend remaining time there if any as 2 days might go into travelling.
I have heard a lot abt Pompeii - and realy want to be there. Nt sure how it will be in dec ? And nt sure how to fit in Milan.
But travel , i am thinking of taking trains between these main places and then rent a car while i am there OR can i just rely on public transport within cities as well ?

tarunm1982

Another thing i want to ask is - if i can manage in italy knowing only english ? Not knwing ny other european language.

kfusto

It is still too much rushing around. If you eliminate Naples, it is more reasonable.

You will actually have one day and maybe a half in Venice on arrival and you will be jet lagged and tired on arrival.

If you visit Pisa, Siena, Tuscany (which is the region where Florence is located, not a city) and Bologna you will have no time for Florence at all.

Everyone here has given the same advice but you are certainly free to ignore all of us and spend your 12 days on trains and checking in and out of hotels. Not at all how I like to spend time in Italy or anywhere.

Whether you return or not is really irrelevant IMO. This is a "If it's Tuesday it must be Belgium" type of trip and you will not have time to take a deep breath and experience anything.

zeppole

You seem to be thinking that transportation inside Italy is very fast and easy. It is not, and the fast trains that save time are very expensive. And many train stations are not near the center of town, which is what you want to see, so it takes extra time or money for taxis to get there.

I sympathize with your feeling that there are so many famous places it is hard to resist at least getting a peek at as many as possible. But the train system in Italy isn't reliable enough for you to book a trip like the one you describe. You could end up spending hours in train stations, hours just checking in and out of hotels, and lots of money on taxis trying to keep you and your luggage out of the pouring rain.

Here is a plan that might work extremely well for you and your bride:

Land in Rome. Plan to spend 5 nights in Rome. Get an apartment to save money.

The first sunny day you have, take a day trip to Pompeii from Rome.

On another day, take a day trip to Florence from Rome.

On the sixth day, leave Rome for Venice by train. If it is a nice day, stop in the walled medieval hilltown of Orvieto on your way. Stow your luggage in the train station, go up into the walled city to see the great cathedral, have lunch, get back on the train for Venice.

If it is NOT a nice day, stop in Bologna on your way to Venice. Stow your luggage in the train station. Have lunch and see the old town (including the anatomical theater and the church of Santa Maria della Vita), get back on the train to Venice.

Spend the rest of your time in Venice, with a day trip to Verona (and/or to Bologna if you get a very rainy day in Venice and haven't seen it yet).

If you can, fly out of Milan. Otherwise, return to Rome your last night to fly home the next day, or fly from Venice.

Okay?

tarunm1982

Sounds good. I didnt get "get back on the train to Venice" thing. Is there like a train to Venice every hr from Orvieto/Balogna - the place i stop so that i get a train back easily ?
And shall i get a "Eurail Italy Saver Pass". Looks like it will be like 265$ for a week for both of us. Wat i understand is tht saver pass is a common pass for 2-5 ppl who travel together and would save a lot compared to adult pass. But if i just go from rome ->venice -> rome , then i m nt sure if its worth it and i mayb better off taknig just a one time ticket. ?

kfusto

You should price out your options and make a decision.

Trenitalia.com will give you schedules but you cannot purchase tickets with a US credit card so you will need to purchase in Italy if you decide against a pass.

Many here do not like passes but we use them and will continue to do so when it makes sense for us.

Zeppole's suggestion is very good and allows you to actually enjoy your honeymoon and still see a lot.

franco

zeppole's plan is not only good, it's wise; just let me add that if you realize the daytripping is still tiring you, don't feel obliged to work off the whole list, and skip some daytrips. As kfusto said, even if you never return, it's preferable to visit two places less and really see the others, rather than visit two more while seeing four less (the additional two, and two others where you have to rush in order to reach them). The value of having been in a city or town is only to SEE it (which needs plenty of time), not to cross it off an imaginary "must-visit" list.
As for your other questions, in the places that you want to visit, English is going to work, though it's certainly recommended to learn some basic Italian phrases: people will simply treat you better since many Italians consider it impolite if you address them in English without even trying to speak some words in their own language. Until December, you have plenty of time, you could be quite fluent in Italian until you travel!
The rail pass may not save you anything if you just go Rome-Venice-Rome, but if you include some daytrips, it likely will. A car isn't necessary for this trip, and for the Venice leg, it would of course be nonsensical to have one.

zeppole

Sorry for not being clear.

I can't answer your questions about a rail pass. But if you end up not buying one, and you want to stop places for lunch on your way to Venice, which is what I was suggesting, you will need to buy a ticket to your first stop, and then a separate ticket from there to Venice.

For example:

Day 6 -- you wake up in Rome and you know it's a nice day in Orvieto (you've looked at the internet the night before) so you pack up everything and go to the train station and buy a ticket for Orvieto. You go there and see the town and have lunch, then you go to the train station and buy a ticket for Venice and arrive there before dinner.

or

Day 6 -- you wake up in Rome and you know it is raining or snowing in Orvieto, so you pack up and head to the train station and buy a ticket for Bologna. It may be snowing in Bologna, but you don't care, because the city has miles of porticoes, it's flat and has wonderful food and things to see indoors. Once you are through with Bologna, you buy a ticket for Venice.

I don't know what happens if you have a rail pass or if it is worth it.

To take a Day trip to Pompeii from Rome, you need to know it will be a nice day in Pompeii AND get up very early in the morning. You can either take a tour with a tour company for the day, or you can do it on your own, buying train tickets to Pompeii. But you want to get there early in the morning, because the days are short in December and Pompeii is very big. You might want to check out the times that the archeology museum is open in Naples and try to see it the same day, on your way back, because many important artifacts from Pompeii are in the museum for safekeeping.

If you look on the BBC website, they offer free Italian lessons, via e-mail.

skot

Hey tarun, I will also be going on my honeymoon during the same time. May be we can coordinate and exchange notes for our trip.
This is what i'm thinking http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...n-december.cfm

alihutch

The blog I mentioned in this post has moved and is now here http://lakecomotraveltips.wordpress....november-stay/

denisea

I know the weather isn't the same but don't feel you can't enjoy Europe in winter. We have been to Paris the past 2 years, in late November and over Christmas and enjoyed our time. One huge plus....few to no crowds at the big sites!

Several regular posters also have posted great reports about their winter vacations in Rome, so you will still be able to enjoy. Take boots that are warm and water proof, if possible. Travel umbrellas and hats, gloves and scarves are musts. I love the air activated hand and foot warmers you can get in the outdoor/camping sections of sporting good stores. They can really help when you are outdoors in cold weather. Plus the cold weather will give you a great excuse to drink lots of the wonderful hot chocolate.

Do resist the temptation to try to squeeze too much in. You will be tired, frustrated and end up seeing less! It will turn your trip into a chore...relax and soak it all in.

Jean

This is a 2 year old thread.