2 Weeks in France and Spain with Teens

Jan 27th, 2017, 01:53 PM
  #21  
 
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I don't think there is anything scary about any of these comments - just a good discussion, which is what the OP asked for. I imagine the OP is thinking about the advice given and will come back when ready.
kwren is offline  
Jan 28th, 2017, 03:27 AM
  #22  
 
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We were in Barcelona this past spring. Everyone with whom we interacted spoke Spanish (as well as Catalan,no doubt).

I'm no expert, but on the same trip we were in Lisbon, and Spanish seemed significantly closer to Catalan than to Portuguese -- especially in the sound of it.

ssander
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Jan 28th, 2017, 03:52 AM
  #23  
 
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One more thing...Catalan seemed more similar to Italian than to Spanish in one regard...posessives.

If I recall correctly (and, at my age, that's not always a good assumption) they both use the definite article with the possessives, unlike French, Spanish or Portuguese.

My shoe
Catalan: la meva sabata
Italian: la mia scarpa
Spanish: mi zapato

Note that the nouns are different ("sabata" being closer to Spanish "zapato") but the use of the article "la" is a similar grammatical syntax, including the necessity to have gender and number agreement between the article and the thing possessed.

I look at it this way: meva and mia are possessive adjectives modifying shoe - the shoe (of) mine.

Was Latin this way (I know nothing of it)? Remember, geographically and trade-wise, both Barcelona had easier contact (sea) with Italy than with France (Alps) or Castile (inland) as the Romance languages evolved, so grammar probably would have changed more slowly than nouns.

Sorry for the off-topic rambling.

ssander
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Jan 28th, 2017, 04:09 AM
  #24  
 
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No, Latin does not use the definite article with the possessive, and the possessive comes after the noun it modifies (domus meus - my house).

I love off-topic linguistic rambling!
StCirq is offline  
Jan 28th, 2017, 07:38 PM
  #25  
 
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StCirq...

Thanks for the clarification. As I am sure you know, a few adjectives in both Spanish and Italian can come before the noun - Buenos Dias!

I suppose the use of that syntax with possessive adjectives morphed from the Latin way at some point in those languages -- and French too, now that I think of it. Bon jour! Bon chance!

Here's a good discussion question: how many (and which) other adjectives besides "good" in Romance languages can come before the noun? Numbers do, for instance. also, big and small. Is there some pattern to this?

ssander
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Jan 28th, 2017, 08:21 PM
  #26  
 
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You should go to the gorges of Kakuetta, 80km from Pau.
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Jan 29th, 2017, 04:32 AM
  #27  
 
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ssanders, that's a complicated question, at least in French, and there don't seem to be any hard and fast rules or patterns. The only sure pattern I can think of in French is that adjectives of color always follow the noun (une robe verte).

You could say, very generally, that descriptive adjectives follow the noun (un homme sériuex, un lion féroce), but some do not (une belle maison, un vieux chat). Then there are adjectives that change meaning depending on whether they precede or follow the noun (un grand homme is a great man, un homme grand is a tall man; l'idée même is the very idea, la même idée is the same idea).

Indefinite adjectives (chaque, autre, plusieurs, tout(e)) generally come before the noun.

It's enough to drive one mad!
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Jan 29th, 2017, 06:14 AM
  #28  
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WOW! I had a busy week and didn't check the thread - what amazing information you all have given me to think about.

The kids are studying D-Day so Normandy was their pick - and my 2 younger sons are crazy about snorkeling which is why Illes Medes is on the list.

I really agree with the pare down comments - and your points have really helped me. Now I need to do the work to cut some stuff out.

I also THANK YOU for the new suggested route to avoid zig zag and backtracking. I clearly need to spend more time with the map and understanding where rental cars can be picked up!

I may be back with more questions soon!

Thanks again,
Christine
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Jan 29th, 2017, 06:32 AM
  #29  
 
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Good morning Christine! Just a note about renting cars, and we have run into this. Pay attention to the opening and closing hours and factor in extra time. Case in point, we got to one rental agency an hour before they were supposed to close and the only agent working that day was out for coffee for an hour. By the time she came back there was quite a crowd, some of whom were very angry (not us ), waiting to pick up cars and drop off cars. It took forever to sort everything out! Always allow enough time for the unexpected!

Enjoy it Normandy. It will make it much more special in that it was your kids' choice and they have that interest!
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