Deborah

We have never planned or taken a trip with friends. This May we will be spending two weeks traveling in southwest France with our "best friends". I've done a search here for suggestions to keep harmony but didn't find much. Need suggestions, guidelines, advice to make this a great trip. Thanks for any help you can give me/us. Deborah

c'est la vie

First, I would book one or two hotels as my base, perhaps one in Provence, like Hotel Crillon le Brave, and one somewhere on the coast. Then I would arrange DAY trips -- this minimizes the waiting around for whoever is inevitably late, an oversleeper, sloppy, etc. to pack, unpack, etc. From Crillon le Brave, for example, you can do day trips by car or by bike. Don't force togetherness if you don't have to...perhaps stay a few nights in Aix, let the ladies shop and poke around while the men do their own thing. In two weeks, there will be some hassles, some illnesses, ie. some crankiness...sticking to a fixed schedule will be tough unless you limit your headquarters and don't try to cover too much. Alot of this depends on what each person likes -- sightseeing, shopping, historic sites or just wining and dining. Thankfully your weather should be great and the food always is, so keep it simple and retain your "best friends" when you get home again. Also decide on a joint budget in advance for hotels, meals, etc. There could be alot of resentment if one couple wants 2 star Michelin and vintage wines and the other couple wants simpler picnics, cafes, etc. Finally, I would try to limit the amount of luggage to no more than one roller bag and one carry-on each (including purses). Use the Arthur Frommer trick of bringing old underwear and socks that can be tossed in the trash after each use, old shoes that can be left behind, nylon shirts to handwash and dry quickly, that sort of thing. If one person comes loaded down and the rest of you have to "assist" in packing and repacking the car, what a drag! Have any big purchases shipped home, it works great even for fine china, crystal and artwork. Just out of curiosity, why do you say "best friends" in quotes??

Howard

&quot;Compatibility&quot; is the key word. If that doesn't exist over the two weeks, forget everything else!<BR>Definitely set some ground rules in advance. For example, there may be days when the two couples don't agree on what to do. In those situations, you should feel free to go your separate ways for the day.<BR>The next key word is &quot;compromise.&quot; Very important. Know in advance that you're probably not going to agree on everything!

Shannon

Really good question.<BR><BR>I would figure out the likes and dislikes of each, and figure out who's high and low maintenance. Also, who is the control freak, and who's good at what (i.e. driving, directions, etc.). <BR><BR>For example, I have a control problem with driving, so to avoid confrontation, I drive. <BR><BR>I find when travelling in a pack, it's best to discuss where you're going and getting that settled first. Otherwise you hear a lot of &quot;anywhere you want, that's fine&quot; and when someone decides, let's do this, the &quot;anywhere&quot; person gets grumpy. Everyone should have a say.<BR><BR>Also, don't forget that you don't have to spend the entire time together. Everyone needs their space.<BR><BR>Finally, learn each persons idiocyncracies and deal with it before hand. For example, there's always one person that has to stop at every tree to pee. It's funny at first, but after a while, it can be a drag.

Deborah

c'est la vie, thanks for the suggestions, I didn't have the space for too much information so I didn't say that we would be in a gite near Toulouse for one week taking day trips from there. These are our very best friends who we see every week socially, go to the same church etc so they are more than best friends they are really our &quot;best friends&quot; thanks for your great suggestions, this seemed like a good idea a year ago, now I am getting worried. Deborah

c'est la vie

Deborah,<BR>Don't worry, you will have a great time! It is FUN to travel with another couple if you have been married to the same person for more than a year or two!!! Just plan an evening to sit down together and go over budgets, itineraries, etc. I agree with the person who mentioned a control issue over driving! Why don't you research some top restaurants and book a few special meals in advance and just wing it on the rest? My biggest concern would be the &quot;sportiness&quot; of another couple -- we love to run and bike and walk and hike and would be dragged down by any other couple who didn't like these things. I don't adore spending time in museums or old churches but I love stately homes and castles, for example. I cannot abide by people who spend every second taking pictures and no time looking at anything! However a few bottles of wine can smooth over anything but bad weather. I would have an agreement that if you run into a rainy spell, you have a backup plan, whether going to a larger city, visiting museums, etc. I think you will have a ball and I will look forward to your trip report. Just settle the $$$ thing up front.

patg

Don't let one person (or one couple) do all the planning. Break down your destination list and give each one a turn at deciding on the day's schedule, or, at least, part of a day. And have a quiet time, or couples only time, as part of each day. <BR><BR>Also, be very conscientious about those luggage requirements! The trunks of European cars are not generous! You may want to get the measurements in advance to make sure you'll have enough room.

john

How about a barge trip for the 4 of you ? Few barges accommodate 4 or 6 guests only and might be the answer as it includes excursions, meals, accommodations etc...a perfect and complete worry free holiday for a friendship reunion.<BR>John

urg

&quot;Use the Arthur Frommer trick of bringing old underwear and socks that can be tossed in the trash after each use, old shoes that can be left behind, nylon shirts to handwash and dry quickly...&quot;<BR>Yuck! I'm not sure I'd want to be stuck in a car with 4 people all dressed in old underwear and nylon shirts. It can get pretty warm in the south of France in May, you know...

aaa

Deborah-<BR><BR>We had done the exact same things with &quot;friend&quot;- from Heidelburg to Florence--<BR><BR>By the time we hit Nurnberg,we were ready to kill each other....<BR><BR>We vowed NEVER AGAIN...<BR><BR>However, subsequently we have gone on shorter trips with other friends for a week at a time...<BR><BR>TWO Weeks is an awfully long time...<BR><BR>MY best advice:<BR>Stay in the same hotels but get 2 CARS-- in case one couple wants to go in one direction and one in the other direction...then link up for dinner...<BR><BR>Otherwise, you will ALWAYS be compromising and the stronger personality ALWAYS wins.....

John

We did the same thing a few years ago - rented a house (Languedoc) for a week, then toured for a week - and it was a breeze. (In our case it was late March/early April, and we froze our tuckuses off in the farmhouse, but I digress...)<BR><BR>In our case it helped to get the &quot;domestic&quot; issues put away first thing in the morning - who's cooking, where are we going today, who wants to hit the market and who wants to do laundry, etc. - which not only helped in day planning, but also gave us a heads-up as to who was in a crummy mood, etc., so we could adapt our plans as needed. It helped very much that we didn't over-plan the holiday; people's energy levels are not all the same, so a two-couple vacation needs to be planned at the &quot;lowest common denominator&quot; level, which can actually make it quite relaxing.<BR><BR>Have fun and send us a trip report when you get back!

Mel

Make sure that both couples read a few books and make lists of things they would really like to do/see. Then compare notes and plan to do/see at least the &quot;highlights&quot; that you've all agreed on. This will insure that everyone is satisfied with at least some aspects of the trip. <BR>This will also give you a really good idea of what each couple sees as a vacation, where, perhaps,one couple sees this as a &quot;sleep late, wing it&quot; adventure while the other has more structured &quot;must sees.&quot; <BR>It's so important that all four of you have more than a passing knowledge of the area you'll be visiting so that no one gets bogged down playing &quot;tour guide.&quot; <BR>You can make planning this adventure together SO much fun--talking about food, wine, driving, wish lists, etc. But it can also dissolve easily into the same scenario most couples run into planning a wedding when so many opinions and different tastes (and money) gets involved.<BR>I just realized this sounds a bit negative--I don't mean it to be. Just realistic. I've traveled with friends and family and always-ALWAYS-had a wonderful time. But I think that's because we do our homework. And that's all I'm really suggesting.<BR><BR>Have a fabulous trip!

Deborah

What great advice I am getting, I plan to take a copy of it all to our first planning meeting so everyone will know the advice came from others and that I am not trying to control the trip. When it comes to my vacations I am guilty of too much planning and trying to do too much in a day, you know, so much to see so little time, so I really need these suggestions. With all your help this might just be the best trip we ever had. Thanks, Deborah

mj

Deb,<BR><BR>Here's my $0.02 based on our failure and success when travelling w/others.<BR><BR>Our initial trip &quot;with others&quot; was w/our 2 teens to Europe for a family wedding - memorable for the grief and aggravation suffered by all. <BR><BR>A re-read of an old book, &quot;You Can Negotiate Anything&quot;, Herb Cohen, offered some insight that worked so well that subsequent trips, a few more w/the teens and 2 trips w/friends, suffered only trivial &quot;issues&quot;. It even helped us and another couple realize that a trip together was not in our mutual best interests.<BR><BR>The following is a winner of the John Cleese, &quot;Stating the Bleeding Obvious Award&quot;, but here goes...<BR><BR>As soon as convenient, invite your friends to talk about the trip (over dinner works well for us). Before the discussion set the initial tone (and get agreement from all) that you're excited and looking forward to a great trip - if you can't get this far, you're already in trouble.<BR><BR>Engage _everyone_ in the discussion. Keep the talk friendly, light and focused on the trip.<BR><BR>I'll bet that during the course of talking, either all will come away with a warm fuzzy feeling that it will indeed be fun, or, you may discover that it's not a good idea. If you or they do decide bailing out is the best course, the &quot;friendly&quot; tone will (hopefully) keep any damage to a minimum.<BR><BR>hth,<BR>mj

Mary Ann

Deborah<BR>We have taken a 3 week independent driving trip with brother in law and sister in law (who is more like best of friends)in 1999. In the 3 weeks we had only one hic cup that lasted less than 1/2 hour. We hit 5 countries and never stayed at the same place more than 3 nights. The key was:<BR>1. Driving - who wanted to share. Never take on a longer day driving than need be to prevent crankiness.<BR>2. Navigating - who could and having good trip tics and maps (now you could use Euro shell) do not be afraid to stop and ask. Worse thing is 3 back seat drivers.<BR>3. Day Planning - have a basic idea of what you want to do at each location. My friend and I sat down in advance, reviewed each location and had for example if we are going to be there 3 days, had a printed game plan that could be used each day, depending on weather. We even took some cards.<BR>4. Variety - knowing what each likes and comprimising if need be. (Shopping, museums, outdoor activities, night life, picnics, and down time)<BR>5. Patience - This may sound strange but with variety of foods, water, sleeping etc. some times with bathroom breaks not everyone can be on the same schedule even though you try.<BR>6. Guide books - great walking tours helped us. By night everyone was really tired. Went at our own pace, knew possible restaurants in advance. The worse is when no one wants to choose.<BR>7. Packing - generally decide on how to dress in advance and when you think you will need to do laundry. We knew we were going to the alps (cold weather gear for Chamonix) riviera (hot) and venice (boat in limited luggage) among others. If everyone is prepared more happy people. Some places did not have elevators plus you do have a limit when sharing a car. Know the type of trunk you will have and if will comfortably hold everything.<BR>8. Financial - Know how you are getting money - ATM (we used extensively) it takes more time if one is using travelers checks and the other ATMs. Agree on price ranges in advance. Find out if your Visa charges fees.<BR>9. Reservations - we had all B&amp; Bs and hotels booked in advance. We shared a bath once on the Riviera, Villefranche (a favorite). We also had booked a dinner at the Eifel tower. It saved the hassel.<BR>10. Misc - find out if the car has CDs or cassettes and take some music to relax. Print labels up for post cards in advance to help. If someone does not feel well get help early (pharmacias are more than drug stores!)<BR><BR>MOST IMPORTANT - Be flexible and keep a good sense of humor. Laughter is the best!!<BR><BR>Well I may have said too much but we are now planning a 25 day 23 night trip for Europe this fall with the same couple! Have a great trip!

Tom

The first thing to discuss is finances. Expectations of what you plan on spending per night for lodging or food. How things are going to be paid. What has worked well for us is to use one credit card for all expenses that we incur together, hotel,B&amp;B,Pension and restaurant bills,car rental, gas etc. We split it down the middle when we get home. For other small expenses or when we decide to pay cash we have a &quot;kitty&quot; that we work off of. I hate sitting in a restaurant and trying to figure out a bill as to who owes what. Depending where you are it is sometimes difficult to ask for separate checks. As with a marriage many problems usually have a common denominator of $$$$.

Deborah

Thanks for all this advice, my only time of traveling with others was with my sister and her husband almost 10 years ago and it was a disaster. I wanted to leave my brother-in-law at some restaurant for good (he was always looking for food) and I wanted to strangle my sister, she and I were continually trying to be the one in control. Just don't want to make the same mistakes. Deborah

c'est la vie

To: URG...there is always ONE on this website which is why I leave it for months at a time without coming back... Why does it seem impossible to have a post without something negative creeping in?? I wish you miserable souls out there would find yourselves a DIFFERENT website to haunt.

xxx

Deborah: You might search the Caribbean forum. This was a thread a few months back. Sorry, however, I don't remember the title. <BR>My biggest suggestion is to get 2 cars! There may be some times that one couple wants to do one thing and the other, something else. Unless there is access to public transporation, with only one car, you will severely limit your options. I hope you have tried traveling together before you leap into 2 weeks in Europe together. Unfortunately, our experience with this has not been good. My best friend, with whom I have traveled before, turned into a totally different creature when he came along. Thankfully, it was a trip with not much time nor money invested.

Cherie

Hi Deborah,<BR>I took a two-week trip to Ireland a few years ago with my husband and brother- and sister-in-law. We had a wonderful vacation mainly because we agreed on money up. We used one credit card for joint purchases (rental car, rooms, gas) and had a kitty for smaller daily expenditures (tolls, parking, lunch, museum entrance). It worked very well. <BR>Do pack lightly, though -- as another poster mentioned, the trunks on even a &quot;mid-size&quot; car in Europe are VERY small!<BR>Cherie