Hi!
I am looking for some advice on a 2 and a half moth Europe trip i have been planing for a while. Me and my husband are traveling next April, from Australia, for our first BIG overseas trip. I am looking for some advice on where we can improve, We are really trying to find a happy medium between seeing a lot of places and leaving time to soak it all up, If that's even possible . We are planning on using the train/ public transport for most Journeys, however we will get a plane for those over Say 5 hours.

About us: we are a 26 year old couple, who love sport, architecture, and History. We both love the Coastal settings, and i am very keen on wine

6 Nights in Rome
4 Nights in Florence
2 Nights in Venice
1 night in Milan
2 Nights in Lake Como
We will train back to Milan and hire a car and head to Cinque terre and stay the night
From then we have 6 nights with the car to drive along the Italian coast and into the French Rivera followed by Marseille and Avignon.
From Marseille we will fly to Barcelona
3 Nights in Barcelona
2 nights in Madrid
We have then chosen a 5 day tour (through Viator) through the south of Spain (Seville, Cordoba, Toledo, Ronda, Costa del Sol, and Granada.
From the tour leaving us in Madrid we will travel to Bordeaux
2 Nights in Bordeaux
7 Nights in Paris
1 night in Brussels
2 Nights in Brugges
5 Nights in Amsterdam
5 Nights in Berlin
6 Nights in Germany Spare (Still deciding on the exact places to go, ANY IDEAS?????)
4 Nights in Munich
3 Nights in Prague
2 Nights in Innsbruck
2 Nights in Salzburg
3 Nights in Vienna

Any ideas/comments on this itinerary would be very much appreciated.

Thanks!!!

Kate And Tim

Hi Kate and Tim

What an adventure, starts in April and finishes in August??
I think the focus on cities is logical but you are missing out on some of the individual finer places. You are covering a lot of ground and some would say too much.

sport, architecture, and History. We both love the Coastal settings, and i am very keen on wine

My only thoughts would be to have another think about wine which might have some affect on the German area.

I would make the spare 6 days between Amsterdam and Berlin and go to Mosel/Rhingau or Champagne/Alsace that allows you to bring in Strasbourg or Rheims.

I also think the 5 day Spanish tour will be a bit tough and rushed, I only rate Grenada, Seville and Cordoba in the 6 you mention.

You don't want to pick up a car in Italy and return it in France as their will be a huge drop off fee.

I wouldn't bother going so far out of your way to Cinque Terre for one night.

I think you need to make a list of what you want to do in each city to see if you are allowing enough time. You have to factor in the travel time. Every time you change locations uses at least 1/2 a day.

To my mind, 8 countries in 2.5 months is utter madness!

Why not focus on 3 and do them properly. For example, Italy, France and Spain.

Three nights in Czech Rep, Belgium and 5 in Holland will only give you the most superficial look at these places. I would much prefer to come home and say I have properly explored 3 countries rather than took a few pictures in 8.

Just a thought, best of luck either way.

Great that you have so much time! And that you are planning already. You are starting in the south and working north, which is good and I don't think it looks like madness, although I would change the emphasis myself. I prefer Austria to Amsterdam, for instance.

If you are more interested in coasts than art I would drop Florence and cut back on Rome to add the Amalfi Coast and Capri (over-nighting makes a big difference) or Ischia. I, too, have doubts about your tour of southern Spain. I did southern Spain by public transport, and gave it longer. You would then not need an additional pass through Madrid.

Don't miss out on the Basque country on your way to Bordeaux. I based in Bayonne and did day trips by train, but you should also see the northern Spanish coast.

I think five nights is too long for Amsterdam, unless you're doing lots of day trips, and even then.... And I'm not that sold on Germany in general, and would suggest more time in Austria and a look at Slovenia and perhaps the Croatian cost instead.

You would think that you could see a lot of places in 2.5 months but you need to account for travel time between places (which you really haven't built into your itinerary) and down time because you cannot absorb all the sights, sounds, experiences day after day. It doesn't matter what your age. Recently a young couple (under 30) posted that they desperately needed down time in their long trip and needed help to change their travel plans so they could relax and bit and get away from cities.

You're mostly visiting cities so that doesn't give much time for sport and you enjoy wine but have no focus on vineyards.

You love coastal settings but most of your locations are in land.

In Austria you could visit the ice caves, salt mine, and go rafting and hiking.

Try to pick a smaller area and see more of the area/country. You don't want to go home and have your trip be a blur because you focused on too many places and too few experiences.

I like the idea of the tour part way through your trip - let the experts plan and get you to places.

This will be tough but remove Bordeaux (not a great place), Prague, Brussels, & Bruges.

You probably have too much included in you itinerary and will, as you can see, get lots of advice on what to drop and what to add. Two and a half months sounds like a lot but you will get "traveled out" if you keep up the pace you have laid out.

I agree with those that suggest 3 countries with a variety in each - cities, coastal areas, rural areas,etc. Consider Spain, Italy and France starting in the south of Spain where is is very hot in the summer. These three countries have lots of coastal areas, vineyards, hiking, biking and rafting opportunities and fit better with what you are looking for.

You have lots of time to plan so make sure your trip is exactly what you want. And that you have time to smell the roses along the way.

Speaking solely on the Spanish trips this will be extremely rushed. You basically have 10 days for Madrid, Barcelona and then (with Viator) Toledo, Cordoba, Sevilla, Ronda, Costa del Sol and Granada! WOW....

I'd add move time in Spain or focus the 10 days in Madrid & Barcelona or Andalucia. 10 days is just right for Madrid and Andalucia OR Andalucia but definately not both. You'll be exhausted and will barely skim the surface.

I like the other posters ideas of focusing on 2-3 countries. You'll find that many countries have regions within them that feel like individual countries within a country. In Spain, for example, the Basque Country and Andalucia are almost as different as Spain and Italy - different languages, cultures, etc....So you don't necessarily have to cover a huge geography to experience the diversity.

I think your plan of jumping around a lot is just fine with all the time you have, if that's what you want to do.

Idea - maybe insert some days where you take a vacation from your vacation. For example, after Italy, stay in a small town in Provence for a few days and drink wine. After Spain, stay in the Dordogne for a few days and drink wine. After Amsterdam, stay in the Mosel and drink wine.

Other ideas - Prague logically fits between Berlin and Munich. Delete Bordeaux, Brussels, Marseille. Add some more days to Venice. I don't think 5 days is enough for Andalucia. By a long shot. Why rush?

And drop the car off in Milan and take the train to Nice to avoid the big dropoff charge.

This isn't logistical advice, but just wanted to say that I did a similar trip once and the one thing I would change for the future is my use of time in the individual locales. After spending just a couple of days in several different cities and wandering by myself they all started to run together. I wish I would have joined in on more organized walking tours to get some perspective and insight into the architecture, history or whatever of the different cities. Some places have themed tours of breweries, etc. Even a quick 2-hour walking tour would give a bit of an anchor to the city, or at the very least download an audio tour on your ipod and follow that (I know Rick Steves offers several).

Logistically...be careful about 1-night stays. If you're just passing through on your way to someplace else and need to break up the trip, that's one thing. But you probably won't get to see much of a town in which you spend just one night...again, blur factor on a long trip like this. For example, I believe Brussels could be done as a day trip from Brugge, then you don't have to worry about packing/unpacking again and hauling your luggage with you until check-in time at the new place.

Have a great trip!!

I agree - do try to cut out one-nighters. Any more, if I don't think a place is worth at least three nights I tend to skip it. But I've done a lot of travel over the last decade, and I don't live so far from Europe, so I can see the temptation to add as much as possible. And if you're young and energetic.... Do plan some down time, though. Aside from anything else, on a long trip you have to deal with things like hair cuts and shopping (toothpaste, etc.) that don't come up on a short trip.

Just my opinion but 4 days in Florence are 2 days too many. get into the countryside of Tuscany. Absolutely beautiful. Lots of wine. Pisa is quite an experience and you only need a short time. Sienna is also very nice and on the way you can see a few Medieval towns to check out. Monteriggioni is a walled city that is very cool. Sounds like a wonderful trip. Salzburg is one of my favorites and from there you can take a short bus ride to Bertchesgaden, Bavaria and go to Lake Konigsee. One of the most beautiful lakes is at the end of the boat ride called Lake Obersee. The reflections of the sky, Mountains and trees will blow you away.

This sort of trip would not be a holiday I'd enjoy (too fast-paced at times, too focused on cities), so I'll leave the overall itinerary to you.

But, some random thoughts:

When will you do laundry? thursdaysd mentioned the need for down time. People planning long, fast-paced itineraries often forget the mundane chores of life that still demand attention and time even if you're on holiday.

Take note of the days of the week you'll be in different places. For example, if your four nights in Florence (which for me would be a minimum stay) are from Friday to Tuesday, you'll probably have a hard time trying to see the highlights in the few hours that things are open. Saturday would be crowded and there would be limited access and hours on Sunday and Monday.

Check the order of your contemplated itinerary. One oddity that struck me was Munich-Prague-Innsbruck-Salzburg-Vienna. Lots of back-tracking there. Better would be Prague-Munich-Innsbruck-Salzburg-Vienna.

Re: laundry. I typically do multi-month trips, so I have some experience. I do my laundry in the bathroom sink, usually a little every other night. Only clothes that drip-dry overnight get to travel with me (aside from socks).

Among things that need thought ahead of time are bills, mine are almost all on automatic bank draft, aside from credit cards, which I pay electronically on the road.

My packing list and "things-to-do-before leaving" lists are on my blog - start here: http://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com/...take-part-one/

Kate,
We too are from Australia and understand that when going so far you want to see so much, BUT .... I suspect this is not only your opportunity to visit Europe, but your annual holiday (ie. down time to unwind from work etc). Don't underestimate how exhausting constantly moving around for 10 weeks can be. Sometimes you will just want to "chill" for the day, and if you are moving a lot you won't get much opportunity. Also, as someone else has said, doing the laundry and buying supplies all take time.

Someone has said that moving takes half a day - we often find that moving can even take a day - check out, get to station early enough to work out where you need to be, take train, try to figure out where you are going when you get the other end, check in again (and then you may arrive before check in time) ....

If I had 10 weeks, I would find myself about ten 1 week "bases" to settle in. Then explore thoroughly the place you are staying in and travel out from there as required. I would also rent a car (at least for part of the trip) as this allows much greater flexibility to get to places which are not well serviced by public transport, especially places in the countryside. When renting a car, be careful to drop in the same country you pick up in as the one way rental charges are very expensive. Another benefit of 1 week stays is that it is easy to hire apartments which really lets one feel like you are getting to know the place. You can eat out at nice restaurants, or you can get some produce at the market, some wine and eat in (or if the weather is warm perhaps have a picnic). It is also a cost effective way of traveling.

Our first trip in recent times was a month in about 2006 and we chose 4 bases and explored out from there. See our trip report for an example of how this can be done. http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ris-london.cfm

Happy planning, and please report back on your wonderful opportunity!

If you stay in fewer bases, for longer times, you can rent an apartment with a washing machine and a small kitchenette so you can have a small evening meal sometimes, and have breakfast in your 'jammies. (Or whatever you call your nightwear in Oz.). Although hotel breakfasts can be nice, you tend to overeat that way, and I get tired of having to get dressed first. You will get to know at least one neighborhood and the shops and people that way, (from an apartment) which helps anchor you and your memories. And staying in small hotel rooms can get tiresome. An apartment gives you more room to relax.

"I would find myself about ten 1 week "bases" to settle in."

Super suggestion.

10 days in Spain is just enough for Madrid and Barcelona.