1st trip to EU
Jul 10th, 2006, 10:12 AM
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1st trip to EU
Hi all,
I am planning my very first trip to Europe (Greece) and have what is probably a very silly newbie question:
I am searching now for a flight and am curious what to expect when changing flights in another country. (For example, I am looking at a flight that changes in Paris with a 2-hour layover.) How much time do I really need to factor in for a flight change? Will I need to deal with customs when changing flights? Etc. Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks!
I am planning my very first trip to Europe (Greece) and have what is probably a very silly newbie question:
I am searching now for a flight and am curious what to expect when changing flights in another country. (For example, I am looking at a flight that changes in Paris with a 2-hour layover.) How much time do I really need to factor in for a flight change? Will I need to deal with customs when changing flights? Etc. Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks!
Jul 10th, 2006, 11:38 AM
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There are no silly questions!
The amount of time depends on a number of things:
- whether you have to change terminals
- how long security takes - you don't usually have to go through customs, but security
- do you have to pick up your luggage or will it be automatically be transferred to your connecting flight
- how many other flights arrive at the same time as yours.
I remember having to change planes once in Paris (almost 10 years ago) and I had less than 2 hours and it was cutting it short. I was arriving from Brussels and that flight was late. Most of the connecting flight (to Toronto) was full when I and the other Brussels passengers boarded.
Perhaps someone with more experience transferring in Paris can be more helpful for CDG.
The amount of time depends on a number of things:
- whether you have to change terminals
- how long security takes - you don't usually have to go through customs, but security
- do you have to pick up your luggage or will it be automatically be transferred to your connecting flight
- how many other flights arrive at the same time as yours.
I remember having to change planes once in Paris (almost 10 years ago) and I had less than 2 hours and it was cutting it short. I was arriving from Brussels and that flight was late. Most of the connecting flight (to Toronto) was full when I and the other Brussels passengers boarded.
Perhaps someone with more experience transferring in Paris can be more helpful for CDG.
Jul 10th, 2006, 12:02 PM
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Flights to Athens can cost a lot more than to other European airports. And maybe you are not headed for Athens?
Before you pick a flight, consider this: Check on www.skyscenner.net and on www.whichbudget.com what flights there are to Greek airports from major European cities. There are some really cheap ones.
Then look for flights to those European airports that have those cheap connections. If all works out, it could be that you save a few hundred dollars on the transatlantic flight, and the budget airline to Greece only costs a pittance.
If the connection times are safe (you need a lot of cushion, the budget airline doesn't care why you're late), and if y9u cn do it within the bagage rules of the budget airlines (read the fine print), this could save you money and maybe even get yu where you're going more quickly.
Normally you do immigration at the first airport of landing in the EU, it's rare that you get checked through and don't see your luggage and stay in transit without haveing to show your papers, at lest if your point of landing and your destination are both in the Schengen
Before you pick a flight, consider this: Check on www.skyscenner.net and on www.whichbudget.com what flights there are to Greek airports from major European cities. There are some really cheap ones.
Then look for flights to those European airports that have those cheap connections. If all works out, it could be that you save a few hundred dollars on the transatlantic flight, and the budget airline to Greece only costs a pittance.
If the connection times are safe (you need a lot of cushion, the budget airline doesn't care why you're late), and if y9u cn do it within the bagage rules of the budget airlines (read the fine print), this could save you money and maybe even get yu where you're going more quickly.
Normally you do immigration at the first airport of landing in the EU, it's rare that you get checked through and don't see your luggage and stay in transit without haveing to show your papers, at lest if your point of landing and your destination are both in the Schengen
Jul 10th, 2006, 12:05 PM
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Pilot error - this last one got posted before I was ready. It should read www.skyscanner.com, and the last sentence ends with the words Schengen countries.
WK
WK
Jul 10th, 2006, 12:15 PM
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First, some basics. 15 countries in Europe have a Schengen common travel area - which theoretically eliminates passport controls among these countries. [There are exceptions.]
EU has nothing to do with Schengen, as there are EU countries not in Schengen (like UK and Ireland), and non-EU countries in Schengen (like Norway). Official site is here: www.eurovisa.info.
You'll see that Greece is Schengen. Since France is Schengen, if you change planes in Paris, you'll go through French immigration at Charles de Gaulle airport (CDG). The Paris-Athens flight will be like a domestic flight in the US. No passport control before and after.
Europe's customs setup are different from the US. If your bags are tagged to ATH (Athens airport), then you'll not see them in CDG. Only immigration control. At ATH, you'll collect your bags, and "customs" merely means you walk out the GREEN colored doors if you don't have anything to declare, or you to the RED section if you have something to declare. I have never seen anybody checking anything.
Now, if you switch planes at a non-Schengen country like in London or Zurich, then you're be in international transit at those airports. You'll go through security check, but no immigration. When you arrive at ATH, you'll go through Greek immigration there before going to baggage claim. Customs is again your choice of green or red doors.
EU has nothing to do with Schengen, as there are EU countries not in Schengen (like UK and Ireland), and non-EU countries in Schengen (like Norway). Official site is here: www.eurovisa.info.
You'll see that Greece is Schengen. Since France is Schengen, if you change planes in Paris, you'll go through French immigration at Charles de Gaulle airport (CDG). The Paris-Athens flight will be like a domestic flight in the US. No passport control before and after.
Europe's customs setup are different from the US. If your bags are tagged to ATH (Athens airport), then you'll not see them in CDG. Only immigration control. At ATH, you'll collect your bags, and "customs" merely means you walk out the GREEN colored doors if you don't have anything to declare, or you to the RED section if you have something to declare. I have never seen anybody checking anything.
Now, if you switch planes at a non-Schengen country like in London or Zurich, then you're be in international transit at those airports. You'll go through security check, but no immigration. When you arrive at ATH, you'll go through Greek immigration there before going to baggage claim. Customs is again your choice of green or red doors.
Jul 11th, 2006, 05:15 AM
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Thank you all for your help. Knowing what to expect will definitely prepare me better. Schengen is a totally new concept to me, but I think I get it.
We will have 2.25 hours for the change in France before flying to Athens. Sadly, I could not find a (reasonably priced) airfare for a flight that changed in UK - which would have been preferable to me since I speak such fluent English!
France was the next logical choice as I speak French a bit and will at least be able to decipher signage.
We're flying AirFrance. Have you guys found them to be very helpful to travellers in terms of helping them find the next terminal, go through immigration, etc?
What can I expect the immigration process to be?
By the way, WallyKringen, thank you so much for your help... We are actually going to Athens for the fist few days of our trip, then driving to the Peloponnese west coast to a resort. Your advice is great, and I'll definitely look into cheaper flights next time. For my first trip though, I'm going to be the dumb tourist that I am and play it safe on big, familiar airlines.
We will have 2.25 hours for the change in France before flying to Athens. Sadly, I could not find a (reasonably priced) airfare for a flight that changed in UK - which would have been preferable to me since I speak such fluent English!
France was the next logical choice as I speak French a bit and will at least be able to decipher signage. We're flying AirFrance. Have you guys found them to be very helpful to travellers in terms of helping them find the next terminal, go through immigration, etc?
What can I expect the immigration process to be?
By the way, WallyKringen, thank you so much for your help... We are actually going to Athens for the fist few days of our trip, then driving to the Peloponnese west coast to a resort. Your advice is great, and I'll definitely look into cheaper flights next time. For my first trip though, I'm going to be the dumb tourist that I am and play it safe on big, familiar airlines.
Jul 11th, 2006, 05:44 AM
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The general consenus on this site is that AF take special lessons in being unhelpful to people changing planes, and that CDG has special designers who devote years to working out how to confuse the most people with the fewest signs.
That's absolutely not my experience. Plane changing is messy, but I've had AF staff go out of their way to drive me out to a departing plane. But if you can change at Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Munich or Zurich instead (all airports where English is virtually the only language spoken), it'll be a very great deal easier.
If you do change at CDG, AMS, MUH or FRA and if your bags are through-checked, you simply queue at Immigration for 0-15 mins then, if you're not an EU/EEA citizen, you get your passport stamped. You go through security again, then walk to your gate. You arrive at ATH as if on a domestic flight.
If you change at Zurich, you just go through security and straight to your gate. You queue at ATH for 5-10 mins and get your passport stamped.
That's absolutely not my experience. Plane changing is messy, but I've had AF staff go out of their way to drive me out to a departing plane. But if you can change at Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Munich or Zurich instead (all airports where English is virtually the only language spoken), it'll be a very great deal easier.
If you do change at CDG, AMS, MUH or FRA and if your bags are through-checked, you simply queue at Immigration for 0-15 mins then, if you're not an EU/EEA citizen, you get your passport stamped. You go through security again, then walk to your gate. You arrive at ATH as if on a domestic flight.
If you change at Zurich, you just go through security and straight to your gate. You queue at ATH for 5-10 mins and get your passport stamped.
Jul 11th, 2006, 05:56 AM
#10
"<i>If you can change at Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Munich or Zurich instead (all airports where English is virtually the only language spoken), it'll be a very great deal easier.</i>"
Could not agree more!
Forget about knowing some French (or even English at LHR) - it doesn't help all that much. CDG is a MESS - but sometimes you might luck out. And LHR is just so busy and hectic - it can be a bit of a struggle.
Amsterdam, Frankfurt or Munich (don't personally know about Zurich) would all be <b><u>much easier</u></b> than CDG.
(and at Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Munich and Zurich airports, they'll probably speak more fluent English than they do in Kansas City )
Could not agree more!
Forget about knowing some French (or even English at LHR) - it doesn't help all that much. CDG is a MESS - but sometimes you might luck out. And LHR is just so busy and hectic - it can be a bit of a struggle.
Amsterdam, Frankfurt or Munich (don't personally know about Zurich) would all be <b><u>much easier</u></b> than CDG.
(and at Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Munich and Zurich airports, they'll probably speak more fluent English than they do in Kansas City
)
Jul 11th, 2006, 06:03 AM
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The posters here make it sound as if it's the most difficult thing in the world to change planes in CDG. Well, it's not. With two hours, you should have plenty of time, assuming your flight arrives on time. This is the same flight I took when I went to Greece in May, and it's not so traumatic, and I chose it (as I suspect you are choosing it) because it was by far the cheapest option to Greece.
The signage in CDG isn't really that bad, and it may be possible to transfer without taking a shuttle bus (ask when you check in for your AF flight at JFK).
Posters are correct that your luggage will be checked all the way through to Athens. You will have to pass through both immigration and security---but not customs; you'll do that in Athens, though it is highly unlikely that you will be stopped. Immigration is pretty easy; you just stand in line, present your passport, and it will be scanned and (may be) stamped.
If you are a U.S. citizen, then the Schengen issue is moot. (It's an issue, however, if you need to get a visa for Greece.)
You probably won't have much time to spare with a 2-hour window, but I did it with 90 minutes, and made the connection without feel too rushed.
The signage in CDG isn't really that bad, and it may be possible to transfer without taking a shuttle bus (ask when you check in for your AF flight at JFK).
Posters are correct that your luggage will be checked all the way through to Athens. You will have to pass through both immigration and security---but not customs; you'll do that in Athens, though it is highly unlikely that you will be stopped. Immigration is pretty easy; you just stand in line, present your passport, and it will be scanned and (may be) stamped.
If you are a U.S. citizen, then the Schengen issue is moot. (It's an issue, however, if you need to get a visa for Greece.)
You probably won't have much time to spare with a 2-hour window, but I did it with 90 minutes, and made the connection without feel too rushed.
Jul 11th, 2006, 06:08 AM
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Hi sk,
2:15 hr should be sufficient to make your connection at CDG.
>The Paris-Athens flight will be like a domestic flight in the US. No passport control before and after.<
However, it is very likely that you will have to go through Security again.
Re AF customer service: It is nonexistent.
If you do miss your connection, do not get angry, do not panic, do not raise your voice, don't even mutter unpleasant things about AF, France or the French. AF does this all they time.
The staff get an extra bonus if they can get you riled up.
They will put you on the next flight.
Hope you have a pleasant visit.
2:15 hr should be sufficient to make your connection at CDG.
>The Paris-Athens flight will be like a domestic flight in the US. No passport control before and after.<
However, it is very likely that you will have to go through Security again.
Re AF customer service: It is nonexistent.
If you do miss your connection, do not get angry, do not panic, do not raise your voice, don't even mutter unpleasant things about AF, France or the French. AF does this all they time.
The staff get an extra bonus if they can get you riled up.
They will put you on the next flight.
Hope you have a pleasant visit.
Jul 11th, 2006, 06:45 AM
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When you check in for your original flight in the US, you'll be given a boarding pass holder that has pages and pages of connection maps of CDG.
<b>Ignore the instructions</b> about the transit bus. <b>But learn the layout</b> of how CDG2 is setup, and the relationship among the terminals.
You'll know for sure where you ATH fligth departs from, and where your US flight is supposed to arrive (though that can change).
After you get off the plane and arrive at terminal (sometimes a bus ride is necessary if the plane is parked on the apron), <b>ignore all signs for connections</b>, and head straight to immigration, like if you're just going to Paris. After you come out, then <b>walk</b> to the new terminal where your ATH departs from and reclear security there. All CDG2 terminals are within walking distance if you're in relatively good shape.
<b>Ignore the instructions</b> about the transit bus. <b>But learn the layout</b> of how CDG2 is setup, and the relationship among the terminals.
You'll know for sure where you ATH fligth departs from, and where your US flight is supposed to arrive (though that can change).
After you get off the plane and arrive at terminal (sometimes a bus ride is necessary if the plane is parked on the apron), <b>ignore all signs for connections</b>, and head straight to immigration, like if you're just going to Paris. After you come out, then <b>walk</b> to the new terminal where your ATH departs from and reclear security there. All CDG2 terminals are within walking distance if you're in relatively good shape.
