bulldawgz13

We are just beginning to plan our trip to Europe for fall of 2007. We can use up to 16 days for the trip and we know we will fly to London, stay for two nights, then off to Paris for 3 or 4 nights, then off to another stop! Any suggestions or recommendations? Our first reaction is to pick Rome, but I am curious to see what others recommend.

nessundorma

I recommend that you spend far more time in London -- 4 nights at a minimum; 5 or 6 would be better. It is a very large city, with its best sights miles and miles apart. And you should probably make it 5 nights in Paris. Both cities, with day trips, could easily fill the 16 days with no chance of boredoem, and you could rent an apartment in each city to drastically reduce your costs. If you are absoultely determined to add a third destination, consider Amsterdam, Antwerp or the French countryside. Possibly the Alps. Perhaps Venice -- but even that is pushing it in terms of the amount of distance you have to travel to get there.

bulldawgz13

We certainly are open to staying longer in both places! Anyone have apartment rental suggestions?

nessundorma

If you visit the Slow Travel website, you will find reviews of many apartments in Paris and some in London. It's a good place to start.

cheryllj

I agree that both London and Paris have so much to see and do, and you could easily spend a week in each city without running out of things to do. Why not stick to those two cities and add day trips (or longer) to the surrounding English and French countryside? From Paris, you could spend a day or two visiting the D-day beaches or the beautiful chateaux of the Loire Valley (as an example).

janisj

Does the 16 days include travel to/from Europe? Have you been to either city before?

If you haven't been before and have 16 days total, you will want to add at least 3 or 4 nights to London and 2 or 3 nights to Paris. For a total of 5 or 6 days/nights in London and about the same in Paris. This will give you 2 or 3 days for somewhere like Amsterdam, or Normandy, or a bit of English countryside.

Most first time travelers think "that's no good, we have to see as much as possible". But you need to factor in things like

- your fist day is basically a "walk around in a stupor getting over jet lag" day

- your last day is lost to packing and getting out to the airport

- London is huge and it will take a couple of days to start to learn your way around. Plus there are enough major sites to fill 6 weeks let alone 6 days.

- Paris is a wander around the neighborhoods and walk everywhere city. It takes 5 or 6 days to see just some of the main sites

- every time you move from one city to another you lose between a half and a full day.

Rushing from city to city every 2 or 3 days means you really don't have time to see much at all.

If you do a search, there are just a ton of threads on about apartments in all price ranges in both London and Paris

(IF Rome is more important to you, consider just Italy, or Just Paris and Rome.)

janisj

To clarify a bit - it is best if you just do a week in each London / Paris. But if you really, REALLY want to visit another area then 5 or 6 days each minimum and a couple of days in one of the other places.

bulldawgz13

No, we have not been to Europe before and the 16 days does include travel. Is that time frame just a little too short to try to get to Rome, or even Italy at all? While we would love to see as much as possible, we do still want to enjoy ourselves!

janisj

16 days sounds like a lot of time. And it would be for a lot of vacations. But, flying transatlantic, 16 days really does only net you about 13 days sighseeing time. And then you have to deduct more every time you move from one city to another.

If it were me, and on a first trip, I'd choose one of these:

- a week in London including a day trip somewhere like Bath. A week in Paris including a day trip or to the Normandy Beaches or the Loire. fly open jaw into London and out of Paris.

- 5 days in London, 2 days in the English countryside. Kent would be good since you could catch the Eurostar from Ashford to Paris. 5 days in Paris, 2 days in the countryside.

- 2 weeks in Italy. Rome Venice and Florence w/ a couple of 1 or 2 days excursions is a good 2 week trip.

LeDoutre

Fall 2007 is a long time away. Your travel plans could change a lot by then. However, if you really want to do London, Paris, and possibly Rome (although I would pick Venice instead after going to two major capital cities), then try for at least 18 days including travel--would give you 4 nights London, 4 nights Paris, 3 nights Venice and 1 day/night to your return airport (Milan?) plus your time getting to and from Europe. Not enough time to see everything in those cities (you'd need more than a lifetime for the first two to see everything), but enough to give you a taste without having to rush rush rush. Just 2 extra days in your trip would allow you to see 3 destinations more comfortably.

LeDoutre

Actually, with 18 days you could do:
Days 1-6.5 London (includes travel day and allows for a day trip outside the city)
Days 6.5-12 Paris (includes Eurostar to Paris and 1 day for Loire or Versailles or Giverny)
Days 13-15 Venice (includes morning flight from Paris to Venice on budget airline)
Day 16 to Returning airport location (example, Milan)
Day 17-Return flight to U.S.
Day 18--Recovery day! (laundry, groceries., etc.)

missypie

I know that lots of people will say "oh, you just HAVE to visit [fill in blank with name of city]", but you really need to think about the type of environment that you enjoy. Would it be fine with you to have 16 days of non-stop touring, all in large, busy cities, or woudl you like some downtime? Do you only want to see cities, or would a few mountains and lakes be a nice break?

nessundorma

I think 2 nights in Venice is not a good plan.

LeDoutre

Two nights would be tight, but I suggested three. But my first visit to Venice on one of my first trips to Europe was only two nights and I'm glad I had two nights instead of none.

zootsi

I agree with the above posters - after several days in London and Paris, you will be ready for some downtime in the beautiful French countryside. Why not do a few days in the Loire Valley visiting the many castles. Italy is also fabulous (as is most of Europe), but save it for another trip.

bulldawgz13

We definitly realize that Fall 2007 is a long way away, but we want to reasonably map out a budget and get a skeleton itenerary together...all of the suggestions have been super helpful! I think that we are going to try and focus our time in France and Italy. Please keep the suggestions coming! I am so appreciative!!

saltymuffin

France and Italy sounds like a great idea. Dropping London opens up a lot of options. Consider an open jaw, into Paris and out of Venice. Map together a train trip between the two stopping in a variety of smaller and larger cities on the way.

nessundorma

You need to post more about your interests, expectations and what you most want to get out of a fall trip to Europe.

London has become one of the most enjoyable, lively, and welcoming urban scenes I can think of -- but it is very pricey. Venezia is first and foremost a tourist/resort destination, without much connection to contemporary Italian culture, but it is jammed with incomprable historic treasures. Someplace like Amsterdam can be exquisitely enjoyable if you are certain kind of traveler (and it is quite beautiful in the canal district) but if you have all you life plotted to get to Paris, you don't want to skimp on your days there.

If on the other hand, you are the kind of traveller who likes the "highlights" of the European capitals, or enjoys (or at least doesn't mind) sightseeing with crowds of foreigners and a lot of motion, then that's a different story.

annhig

Here's a vote for Rome. I agree about dropping London [in autumn, weather can be trucky, and save the UK for one trip in May/ June, preferably], and suggest doing open jaw into paris and out of Rome. For reasons I now can't remember, we went lots of places in europe [we live in the UK] but not to Rome until this year. I really regret all those wasted years not seeing it. I suggest a week in an apartment in Paris, a week in the italian countryside/ coast, and week in Rome.

travelinsue

I have to totally agree with other posters that you can spend more time in London. You can get a London Plus Pass from Britrail (get it before you go, as they are not available in London). That gives you a couple of "Days out" of London. I have been to Dover (the White Cliffs of Dover) and Windsor/Eton (see the castle there). This summer we are goin to spend 7 days in London and our days out will be Cambridge & Portsmouth.

From Paris some "Days out" might be Verseille (try to see it on a Saturday or Sunday so the fountains are going in the gardens...and get there early!), or Chartre (there is a beautiful cathedral there), or Givergny (Monet's Gardens). Do not waste your time at Disneyland. It's nothing like the American parks.