We are travelling in Italy in Autumn, through Rome, Sorrento, Florence, Genova, Lake Mennagio, Venice and back to Rome. We have 26 days and are looking at the Kilometrico pass, that's 3000 kms, and up to 20 stops for Aus $330 (!st C) or $208 (2nd) and can be used for 2 persons. Has anyone used this pass, and I have also heard that sometimes even with passes you have to pay more. Is this often the case? Thanks for your help.... Debbie Lee....

Debbie, <BR> I haven't gone to Italy yet(planning a Fall trip).I am taking an Italian class from a instructor from Italy.He has told our class repeatedly..."Get a first class ticket"!He says the difference in price is well worth it.In class last night he talked about the Kilometric pass.It is my understanding that there is only a supplementary charge for the new high speed trains. Have you looked at www.fs-online.it(I think that is the website..if not search for Italian trains)?This is an amazing site....Lots of info My instructor thought the Kilometric pass a good value...Good luck!Maggie

Debbie, <BR>We travelled around Europe via Eurail including 5 weeks in Italy May/June '99.First class made a difference in the standard of trains in northern Italy, but any trains south of Rome it was very difficult to see any difference between first and second class(or even a cattle train!!!)We did have to pay supplementary fees for some services as well.

From Rome to Sorrento, Debbie, the pass would be good only till Naples. From there you have to take the CS train where the pass doesn't apply. So, your FS travelling itinerary would read: <BR>Roma-Napoli 214km <BR>Napoli-Firenze 530km <BR>Firenze-Genova 246km <BR>Genova-Milano 140km approx <BR>Milano-Como 50km approx <BR>Como-Milano 50km approx <BR>Milano-Venzia 267km <BR>Venezia-Roma 573km <BR>totalling about 2,070km. <BR> <BR>It looks like you may just make it to use the pass for all trips but the last one ... from Venice to Rome, where I would buy a point to point ticket when in Venice (you may even consider to take the night train, saving you a hotel night there). <BR> <BR>If you travel on EuroStar trains, you'll have to pay for supplements (and possibly also a fee for the mandatory reservation). The values below are approximate for 2nd/1st class: <BR>Roma-Napoli Lit 20,000/30,000 <BR>Napoli-Firenze Lit 40,000/50,000 <BR>Milan-Venice Lit 20,000/30,000 <BR> <BR>From Florence up to Como and back to Milan chances are you won't be using an ES train. <BR> <BR>At the time I used to travel by train all over Europe (loong time ago) I always used to have a 1st class pass ... but quite a few times I travelled 2nd class because it was much more fun. 1st class is specially better to handle one's luggage and seat availability is larger in the average. Also, I used to travel at night quite often (in winter) and more often than not I had a 1st class compartment all for myself (or with one or two travel companions) meaning that we didn't need to spend extra for a sleeping birth. Even though this isn't your case, I would probably get the 1st class pass. <BR> <BR>Paulo <BR> <BR>

Maggie, Lindaay and especially Paolo,, Thankyou for you replies... An excellent help and source of information! I will print out your info and keep it in my 'Sogno Italiano' file... Thanks so much!! Debbie Lee...

I went to Venice/Florence/Rome in late-1998. We traveled exclusively by train (Eurail Pass.) There definitely was a difference between 1st & 2nd class. In first class we had our own little compartment...complete with sliding/locking door...big comfy seat. To pass the time I walked thru the other cars, going basically from the caboose up to the front car. When I opened the door into the 2nd class, it looked like I stepped into a "Gone With the Wind" movie-set; you know, the scene where there were all those soldiers sprawled everywhere. That's what that 2nd class car looked like. People were plopped down on the floor, in the aisles...dudes were listening to walkmans, completely oblivious to everyone around. I have to admit; there were some days when I was in the mood to "be with the people; be with the locals." But there were days when I absolutley didn't feel like sitting in the "cattle car." My advice: Get the 1st class ticket...because you'll always have the first-class compartment for a retreat. You can always hang around the other cars whenever you feel like hangin' with the locals...or the other tourists.