I am a new poster but a big fan of this forum. We (hubby and myself) are planning a trip to Switzerland (and perhaps a few days in the Lake Como area, and Venice) in August next year. I have done my homework and read many, many posts in this forum-- thanks to all the faithful Fodorites who unselfishly, and tirelessly share their expertise and experiences, I have come up with a preliminary travel itinerary. It is packed, and perhaps over- scheduled but reading so may wonderful trip reports makes me keep squeezing more into the 17-day trip. So, please help me figure out if the itinerary below will work.
Day 1/2 - travel day from San Francisco, CA to Zurich, train to Lucerne (Hotel -2 nights)
Day 3 - Lucerne: Mt. Pilatus, city walk (Chapel Bridge)
Day 4 - Checkout, travel to Wengen (check out Interlaken for a couple of hrs on way-stow luggage at train sta.) - stay at Hotel Edelweiss? (3 nights - wondering if we should actually spend 4 nights in the OB)
Day 5-6 - Jungfrau one day (I hope the weather will cooperate on at least one of our two full days) Trammelbach Falls, check out nearby villages (Murren, Grindelwald, Gimmelwald)
Day 7 - Train to Montreux (base for 3 nights), hope to arrive early enough to spend afternoon in Geneva
Day 8 - Montreux: Chateau de Chillion, boat to Vevey, etc.
Day 9 - Day trip to Gruyeres and Chocolate Factory (Broc)
Day 10 - Train to Zermatt, see the Matterhorn, train to Gonergrat - overnight
Or spend the night in Brig (cheaper hotel?)
Day 11 - Catch the Glacier Express to St Moritz - where does one with limited budget stay in this ritzy town?
Day 12 - Catch Bernina Express to Tirano; take train to Varenna, then ferry to Bellagio - stay at Hotel Florence? 2 nights
Day 13 - Varenna/Bellagio - lake tour
Day 14 - Train from Varenna to Venice
Day 15 - Venice
Day 16 - Venice
Day 17 - Fly home to San Francisco ������
Please tell me must- do's, and don'ts, at these places, what/where to cut or add. We would also like to add Bern to the trip, if possible. One issue I see is deciding which Swiss Pass to purchase - we're going to be in Switzerland for 11 days, I wonder if it's still most cost-effective to buy a 15-day Swiss Pass...

Hi milaedg,

You can save a day in Montreux if you see Gruyeres and the chocolate factory while enroute from Wengen to Montreux; they lie just a quick detour off the Golden Pass route. You can send your cases using the SBB's Fast Baggage service from Wengen to Vevey (the baggage office at Montreux closes at 18.00, so you wouldn't be able to pick up your bags the same day if you used Montreux).

I think you should also consider that you lose about half a day of "outside" time every time you switch hotels, so your days 10 & 11 will be mostly rails, rail stations, and hotels. I wouldn't do that to myself; I would rather take those rail trips when you can spend more time to enjoy Zermatt and the St. Moritz area.

If you decide to keep this plan, there are many towns and villages nearby St. Moritz where you can opt to stay -- perhaps Celerina or Silvaplana or Pontresina.

Have fun as you plan!

s

You lost me after the 5th hotel... I think you're up to 7 hotels. Would Bern be #8?

Have you checked the train timetables for all of these trains, how early you're able to arrive everywhere, etc.? Most of the journeys aren't terribly long, but six train rides (25 hours or more in total) in 17 days would be a too much for me. But I admit I don't like this type/pace of travel.

Welcome to Fodor's, milaedg. You've already gotten some great advice. I spent a month in Switzerland earlier this year and got some very helpful information about many of the places you plan to visit. If you haven't already seen them, click on my name to find 2 different planning threads and my trip report.

Just a few reactions to your initial plan:
• There is much more to Lucerne than the Chapel Bridge. In particular, don’t miss the Spreuer Bridge (with its paintings of the dance of death) or Lion Monument. If you have any interest in art, the Rosengart Collection is well worth an hour or (better) two. And FWIW, some of my favorite memories of Lucerne are from a boat ride on the Viervaldstadtersee.
• There is so much to see in the Bernese Oberland that I'm not sure it makes sense to spend time in Interlaken if you are only giving yourself 2 full days in the area.
• I had a pleasant one-night stay at the Edelweiss in Wengen. Be sure to ask for a room with a view on one of the UPPER floors.
• Are you fully committed to trying to visit Geneva for an afternoon? Lausanne might make a bit more sense, given your itinerary.
• Alternatives to St. Moritz include Pontresina, Celerina, and Silvaplana (among others).
• Do I understand that you are allotting 2 days, and perhaps bits of 2 other days, for Venice? IMHO, Venice deserves at least 3 full days, although it definitely depends on what you want to see and experience.
• Bern is quite interesting, but you would have to give up something else to fit it in.

BTW, I don't mind switching hotels every night or so and found my time in transit while in Switzerland to be part of the experience, but as you've already heard from others, there are some decided disadvantages to traveling that way. If you are going to move around frequently, take the advice already given: Make sure you know the train schedules and make sure you plan for the time it will take to check in, check out, get from your hotel to the train station, get from the station to your hotel, etc. AND make sure that it will work for you and your husband. (As a solo traveler, I have much greater freedom to move about as I choose.)

Enjoy!

When I saw your title - "17 days" I thought it reasonable to cover the amount of Switzerland you propose - but you don't have 17 days, you have 15 (day 1 and 17 do not count at all, and day 2 is only a partial day, and probably a jet lagged one at that). And you have 5 days in Italy so really only 10 days in Switzerland.

I think two days in Lucerne is fine. For the next part you say you want to see Interlaken, Wengen, Murren, Grindelwald, Gimmelwald and Jungfrau - and maybe Bern. In three days that will be tougher. I would take one night from Montreux and add it to the BO. And I would stay in Interlaken. You give up some small town atmosphere for this but you gain two things - cheaper accommodation and weather flexibility. On sunny days you can visit the mountain towns and hopefully even the Jungfrau but if it's cloudy/rainy you can visit Bern. Spending at least part of a day on the lake is nice too, and the town of Thun, which is between Interlaken and Bern is worth a visit and while all that is better in the sunshine, at least it's not as bad in poor weather as the mountains are. On our first trip to Switzerland we spent five days in Interlaken and did all the places I just mentioned except Jungfrau - the whole time it was in the clouds but there was some sunny days at the lower elevations and we did do the Shilthorn cable car. We stayed at Susie's B&B in interlaken and the owner (who takes people paragliding daily if you want) every morning at breakfast tells guests the detailed forecast for the whole day and makes suggestions.

Re the Montreux, Geneva, Gruyeres, Matterhorn parts. I just did that this summer (http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...swiss-alps.cfm ). I used the same technique of staying in one place (Lausanne) and picking the best day for the Matterhorn. Out of six days I got ONE that worked. Every other day it was too cloudy to make it worthhwhile. But wow - on the day I did go it was AMAZING! www.pbase.com/annforcier/switzerland Zermatt/Matterhorn is doable as a day trip from either Interlaken or Montreux. You spend a bit of time back tracking on the train but otherwise you run a very great risk of not seeing it at all. The Matterhorn is behind clouds more than half the time.

Given your limited time I would totally skip Geneva and Lausanne. Greuyeres was OK but the town of Sion was much more interesting. One of my highlights and I hadn't really heard much about it before I went. Photos and description of it are in the trip report and photo link I gave. Montreux I thought was also pretty boring but it does work well as a base (lots of trains go through there) and Chateau Chillon was great.

Can't comment on the Glacier Express/ Bernina Express parts as I have not done them but your Italy part looks fine.

Definitely get a pass. I had the 8 day one - it's expensive but it's worth it and saves a lot of time in not having to buy train tickets. Trains in Switzerland are one of the country's best features.

There is nothing in Gimmelwald but some houses. There really is no reason to go there.

I would much rather take the little choo-choo up to the Schynige Platte.

Gimmelwald and Murren are on the same side of L. Valley. Wengen and Grindelwald are on the opposite side

There is also no reason to store luggage to walk around Interlaken.

Thin

I agree with everything above. In addition:

There is nothing to do at Interlaken itself. Meiringen (Aar Gorge, Ballenberg open air museum) might a better place for a stop over. Meiringen has left luggage facilities.

Wengen - Golden Pass - Montreux - Geneva (days 7/8)
A decent visit of both, Gruyeres and the chocolate factory is hardly possible in a few hrs. If you leave Interlaken at 9.08 by Golden Pass Panoramic Express, you will arrive at Gruyeres at noon. Count about 3 hrs for Gruyeres and 3 other hrs for the chocolate factory (round trip train journey from Gruyeres included). But you may do it if you sleep at Gruyeres.

You could then leave Gruyeres the following morning at 8.00, arrive at Monreux at 9.13, put your luggage in a locker and continue by historic Lake Geneva steamboat, Montreux dp 9.33 - Geneva ar 14.40. Trains back to Montreux at least every 30 min until 23.23 (1 hr journey).

Day 9 at Zermatt

alternative for days 10 to 17:
Day 10:
Zermatt dp 7.39 to Brig - Domodossola - Panoramic Centovalli train - Locarno - Lugano - Lake Lugano boat - Porlezza - bus Menaggio - ferry Bellagio
Day 11:
Bellagio etc.
Day 12:
Varenna dp 9.24 - Tirano - Bernina - St. Moritz ar 14.09 (trains Tirano - St. Moritz with standard cars and open air cars).
Day 13:
St. Moritz dp 16.02 to Engadin Valley - Pass das Fuorn - Venosta Valley - Meran - Bolzano/Bozen ar 20.58
Day 14:
Bolzano/Bozen dp 11.19 - Venice ar 13.56

I tried very hard to fit in the Bernina Express ... but couldnt. It also involves many train changes, which with luggage can make it difficult (storing luggage to sightsee takes time, making those days very long days if you want to stop anywhere)

In the 10 days, you could fit in everything fairly nicely if you gave that up as it is basically 2 entire days.

So I guess it depends entirely on how much you want to do that trip.

otherwise ... my suggestion
Fly to Zurich, train to Montreux
3 nights in Montreux. Plenty of time to do the Chocolate train, around Montreux, Vevey, Lausanne, Geneva.

Golden Pass from Montreux to Interlaken, while not as spectacular as the Bernina Express is still beautiful.

4 nights in Berne Oberland. Plenty of time to explore the area, Jungfraujoch if you have good weather, day trip to Bern, can stay in Wengen or Lauterbrunnen rather than down in the valley in Interlaken. You can do a day trip from Interlaken to Zermatt (its a long day, but doable) if the weather is good.

Train Interlaken to Lucerne
3 nights in Lucerne .. day trip to Mt Pilatus, Mt Titlis, and/or Mt Rigi, around Lucerne etc.

Train Luverne - Como (2 hrs), then ferry from Como to Bellagio.
3 nights in Bellagio

Ferry to Varenna, train to Milan (1 hr) then on to Venice (2 hrs). Can stop in Milan and see the amazing Duomo on your way.

3 Nights in Venice .... Makes 16 nights.

Swiss Pass or not? With that much train travel it would seem to be the best bet but perhaps a 3-day flexipass is your best bet - three unlimited travel days for your longer trips and then in between you get 50% off everything that moves in Switzerland - but for carte blanche travel a consecutive-day pass may be your best bet - even though you will not use 4 days.

anyway for lots of great info on Swiss trains and passes I always highlight these IMO fine sites - www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.ricksteves.com; http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id3.html and www.seat61.com.

with a consecutive-day pass I always find myself using it much more than I thought - on a whim in Interlaken to hop a boat for a cruise on Lake Thun or Brienz - or if wet weather sets in in the mountains then I may day trip to Bern or Lucerne, etc.

Varenna - Bernina - St. Moritz: there is just 1 (ONE) train change and it's really easy to change at Tirano.
Golden Pass from Montreux to Wengen: 3-4 train changes.
Lucerne - Como SG - Como Lago - Bellagio: long walk from Como SG to Como Lago, better not done with luggage.

Just one thought about the Brig option -- it's a fairly long ride between Zermatt and Brig -- I always fall asleep on the trip back.

IMO, I would book a room in Zermatt that allows for cancellation up until the day of arrival. Because if the weather is cooperative, you would really enjoy staying at the Gornergrat Kulm hotel. Even in August, rooms may pop up at the last minute (cancellations). You probably won't be able to get a Matterhorn view room but the view from the other rooms is still very impressive.

And by cooperative, I don't just mean fabulously clear. When some friends stayed there, a thunderstorm blew up. Yes it was loud and a bit scary, but they also said it was amazing and fantastic and in the end, they were really glad to be there (safe inside, of course) during the storm. And dawn the next day was unbelievably beautiful.

Brig - Zermatt: 1 hr 20 min by train (scenic ride)

ttt

Wow!! Thank you all for your feedback, and reality check! They are all very helpful, and after reading the first few responses, I went back to the drawing board but I haven't decided exactly where to cut - it's so hard!! Also, now our two 20-something kids will be joining us at some junction in the trip...

@Newbie00 & Neckervd: your suggestions are great, thank you! When I rework my itinerary the end result will be a hybrid of both your suggested itineraries and my original. I still would like to fit the Glacier Express, though...
@Kja: yes, I have a cousin who lives in Geneva, and I need to see her even if that's all we do in Geneva.

"@Kja: yes, I have a cousin who lives in Geneva, and I need to see her even if that's all we do in Geneva."

I enjoyed my time in Geneva, and still can't imagine a better reason to visit it! Enjoy!

Also, now our two 20-something kids will be joining us at some junction in the trip...>

If they are under 26 they can get a Swiss Youthpass at a great price. Same as Swiss Pass but cheaper.