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15days itinerary

Old Dec 16th, 2009, 06:44 PM
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15days itinerary

This is my first trip to Europe. I'm flying to Paris on early April and leaving from London. Can anyone suggest a 15days itinerary to cover Paris, Switzerland, London and neighboring countries. I do not wish to cover Italy for this trip.

This is my drafted itinerary, but it doesn't seems to work.

Paris (3 days)
Switzerland (4 days)
Munich (2days including 1 day trip to Salzburg)
Amsterdam (2 days)
London (4 days)

Can anyone help me on my itinerary or any suggestion on new itinerary? Thanks.
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Old Dec 16th, 2009, 09:32 PM
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It would make much more sense to fly into London and fly home from Switzerland or Germany.

But the main reason it isn't working is that you aren't allowing enough time anywhere, especially once you factor in transportation between locations - at least half a day lost each time you move. If your flights are already booked, then just stick to London, Amsterdam and Paris. If you can switch your flights, go home from Switzerland and save Germany for another time.

In any event, you don't have time to go to Salzburg.
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Old Dec 16th, 2009, 11:25 PM
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You want to hit places in six countries in two weeks. That is beyond unreasonable.

artsnletters idea of Paris/Amsterdam/London is about the best you could manage if your flights are already booked. Even that would be semi-rushed.

Day 1 is often a jet lagged fog. Day 15 will be entirely taken up w/ packing and traveling home. So you are down to 13 days -- minus travel time between cities/packing/unpacking/checking in/checking out.

6 days Paris, 3 days Amsterdam, 6 days London is a good division for your "15 days", understanding it will really be more like 5 days Paris, 2.5 days Amsterdam, 5 days London.
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Old Dec 17th, 2009, 01:35 AM
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I agree, 6 days Paris, 3 days Amsterdam, 6 days London would make a very nice trip. Trying to add in Switzerland, Germany and Austria will stretch your time too much.
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Old Dec 17th, 2009, 03:44 AM
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I think your itinerary is very doable and i do such itineraries all the time - this is a subjective thing and for others to say things like 'this is beyond unreasonable' is simply their opinion(and rather rudely stated IMO) and IMO rather rudely stated. It is not beyond reason IMO so do not be put off by naysayers IMO.
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Old Dec 17th, 2009, 03:55 AM
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Does your 15 days including your travel days to and from Europe. This is important because it really affects your planning.

How are you planning on getting to each place you want to visit? have you factored in the travel time? Where in Switzerland do you want to go in our 4 days there?
2 days Munich, one of which is really in Salzburg - what about the travelling times again? The same with 2 days in Amsterdam.

Whilst you could do it you will spend a lot of time travelling and very little time in any of your chosen cities. If you are happy with that, and you have a full 15 days in Europe then go for it. Personally I would choose less cities and allow plenty of time to travel between them so that the travelling is also relaxed and part of the holiday.
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Old Dec 17th, 2009, 04:01 AM
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Munich for two days incl. one day in Salzburg leaves only the arrival and departure day for Munich, which means a few hours - that's beyond unreasonable. And Amsterdam for only two days also seems very short given the time to travel from Munich to Amsterdam and to London afterward.
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Old Dec 17th, 2009, 04:36 AM
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Hi EP,

>This is my drafted itinerary, but it doesn't seems to work.<

That's becuse Paris and London are each worth a week. Fly into one, train to the other, fly home.

At most, I suggest 3 venues in 15 days.

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Old Dec 17th, 2009, 08:02 AM
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Paris (3 days)
Switzerland (4 days)
Munich (2days including 1 day trip to Salzburg)
Amsterdam (2 days)
London (4 days)

OK let's tweek this a bit- the only problem i see is you may want to add a day Amsterdam and Munich - that is if you take day trains (if driving then i agree with janis - though i would use more polite language) but if you say do overnight trains between Munich and Amsterdam that gives you one more day in Munich and an added day in Amsterdam - where i think you really would want one

but if not into overnight trains (and also consider flying between Amsterdam and London) then i would cut a day off Switzerland and add it into Amsterdam and perhaps forget Salzburg this trip

1, 2, 3 Paris
4 to Interlaken region, Switzerland, the very best place for folks who have never been to Switzerland and want to see an Alpine Wunder Land of their dreams - say head up in the hills to Wengen, a perennial favorite of Fodorites with, arguable, the best views in an area with lots of scintillating vistas

5 Wengen
6 Wengen

7 to Munich, via Zurich

8 Munich

9 Salzburg day trip

10 overnight train to Amsterdam

11 Amsterdam

12 Amsterdam

13, 14, 15 London

now yes whether or not you are including the day you arrive and leave in the 15 days makes a difference.

And if going by train then strongly look at the Eurail Select Pass good in France, Switzerland, Germany and Benelux = a 4 country Select Pass (Saverpass if traveling with someone else) for say 5 days - the minimum - using one day Paris to Interlaken/Wengen
one day Interlaken area to Munich
1 day day trip to Salzburg

1 day night train to Amsterdam

and one day left over - can use to go to Versailles in Paris or to come in from Paris airports - or if taking the Eurostar train to London the fifth day would be used to get from Amsterdam to Brussels (this pass also gives a passholder rate on Eurostar trains to Lndon). For loads on european rail travel for novies i always highlight these info-laden sites: www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com - the latter lets you download their European Planning & Rail Guide, which has lots of suggested itineraries in each country that may give you further guidance. And Fodorites are indeed a wealth of advice - yes the mnatra with the oligarchs is that you must spend a week in every city, which is fine if you have the time but if you have never been to europe then you do want to see more than a few big cities - and by taking thre train between places you do indeed see the lay of the land- Interlaken to Munich may seem a long train ride but with a first-class seatthat the pass provides it will be really comfy and you will see gorgeous scenery the whole way -and on trains you meet Europeans as well -flying you see little in between other than airports.
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Old Dec 17th, 2009, 08:56 AM
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we do indeed have our own comfort levels when traveling.
Personally, I want to spend at least 3 nights in each location or it is just too rushed for me.

I have been to Europe 6 times now and each time I realize that I enjoy myself so much more if I pick less destinations and spend more time in one place.

Remember that everytime you chance locations you lose a day.
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Old Dec 17th, 2009, 08:57 AM
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PQ -- there was not ONE single impolite word in my (or anyone else's) post.

Quit looking for ways to be 'offended'.

(to point out 6 countries in 15 days isn't reasonable would seem to be a VERY reasonable opinion, IMHO . . . .)
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Old Dec 17th, 2009, 09:35 AM
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I agree in not anyone else's post

but here once again is a first-time poster who has an itinerary that he/she says does not seem to work and comes asking advice and is met by 'this is beyond unreasonable' - in your opinion that is, not mine but yours - now you could have said it like others but no first thing 'unreasonable beyond belief' - well if you do not find that a tad blunt i do. There are ways to make your point without casting derision on the OP's plans - remember when you recently told a similar first-time poster 'you plans are beyond idiotic'? and again IMO they were not - so please insert IMO behind your derisive remarks and that would be better. And if she/he goes to Salzburg it would be 7 countries, if they did the Eurostar route via Brussels. I at least find your tone in these types of posts just rather rude and often the OP is never heard from again... oh well we've been thru this several times before. Oh well i may be the only one taking your remarks like that and that is my opinion - a little kinder and a little gentler to first-time posters asking questions about their first European trip.
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Old Dec 17th, 2009, 11:10 AM
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hi ellie,

welcome to the happy contented and united community that is fodors!

of course, like all communities [and not a few families] we don't always agree and some of us disagree more often than others!

perhaps you might like to think about a middle way - i would seriously suggest dropping Munich and /or Amsterdam from your itinerary. I would also suggest flying from either Zurich or Munich to London.

I DO like Pal's idea of Wengen though - it will make a great contrast with Paris and London.

How about this:

1,2,3,4, days in Paris.

Day 5 - train to Wengen.

Days 6,7,8,9 - Wengen.

Day 10 - fly to London via Zurich.

you could tinker with this a bit, but it gives you three different countries and cultures, a long-distance train journey, mountains, but less moving about.

have a great trip

regards, ann
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Old Dec 17th, 2009, 11:38 AM
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ellie_pol: Paris/Wengen/London, Paris/Amsterdam/London, Paris/Munich/London or any other combo of three base locations would work - just depends on what sorts of experiences you are looking for. Five stays and 6 countries is really too many.


PQ: I did not attack the OP or anyone else. But then just about everything I post seems to upset you. I gave a useful suggestion and my reasons why. My comments were no more/less rude than any others. Most everyone posted similar things.

>>the main reason it isn't working is that you aren't allowing enough time anywhere>places in six countries in two weeks. That is beyond unreasonable . . . . 6 days Paris, 3 days Amsterdam, 6 days London is a good division for your 15 days>I agree, 6 days Paris, 3 days Amsterdam, 6 days London would make a very nice trip. >Whilst you could do it you will spend a lot of time travelling and very little time in any of your chosen cities>Munich for two days incl. one day in Salzburg leaves only the arrival and departure day for Munich, which means a few hours - that's beyond unreasonable.>That's becuse Paris and London are each worth a week. Fly into one, train to the other, fly home. At most, I suggest 3 venues in 15 days.
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Old Dec 17th, 2009, 12:01 PM
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Yup that's the problem - you say 'beyond unreasonable then the others jump in with a piling on thing because of the precedent you set -i see beyond unreasonable repeated twice after you

The OP, a first-time poster need not be inundated IMO with 'beyond unreasonable' three times - i guess you just do not get my point - why so caustic to a new first-time poster.

Janis- you give invaluable advice, as i've said many times -i just wish you would drop the attitude a bit and be gentler with first-time posters.

And yes i take offense because i have traveled with fast-paced itineraries now for 40 straight years and i do not consider it 'beyond unreasonable'-it is to you but may not be to others and yes i do take offense being told that because ofan opinion - yes opinion you have about travel styles.

The OP first time to Europe and may never return- 6 days in London and six in Paris for the first-time traveler is just way too much- three days in those cities are sufficient IMO-may never go again -see as much as feasible and the itinerary i outlined is immenently feasbie IMO
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Old Dec 17th, 2009, 01:46 PM
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In my very humble opinion I think the OP's plan is very typical of a 1st time traveler. I am surprised they are not going to Rome and Venice as well. I am a speed traveler and can't see me doing what they want. Once they returned from the trip they most likely will better understand that less is better.
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Old Dec 19th, 2009, 06:03 AM
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Thanks for the valueble advices. My 15 days doesn't include travel days to and from Europe. My ticket is fixed, and i'll be arriving Paris around 7am on 2/4 and flying back from London around 11pm on 17/4. Basically i have a full 15 travel days.

If I just focus on Paris, Switzerland, Amsterdam and London. how should i plan my itinerary?
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Old Dec 19th, 2009, 06:21 AM
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I'd do 4 days each in London, Paris, and the Interlaken area and 3 nights in Amsterdam. I think you will be glad you saved Germany and Austria for next time. Good reason to go back soon!
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Old Dec 21st, 2009, 07:20 AM
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Paris -4 days
TGV train to Bern and thence by local train to Interlaken area(Wengen, Interlaken, Grindelwald, etc.

Can take the CityNightLiner overnight train to Amsterdam from Zurich (short train ride from Interlaken)

Fly or go via Brussels and take Eurostar train to London

I would investigate the Eurail Select Pass good in France, Switzerland and Germany and Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg as one country for this pass purposes -a 4-country pass

pass days - 1 day Paris to Interlaken
2nd day Interlaken to Zurich (go via Lucerne, put bags in locker and spend a few hours in this gorgeous city en route to Zurich
3rd passday CityNightLiner train to Amsterdam

4th pass day to Brussels for Eurostar (pass qualifies you for passholder fare on eurostar, which can be a good deal IME)

You have a 5th day to use somewhere- day trip from Paris to Chartres- from Amsterdam to say Aalkmaar for the famous Friday Cheese Market, etc.

Of course check www.voyages-sncf.com for online specials on TGVs France to Switzerland and www.bahn.de for specials Zurich to Amsterdam - if you can get them and for the dates you want would be the cheapest way to go - note however that the Eurail Select Pass, if over 25 yrs old, is first class - much more leisurely IME than 2nd class, which the cheapest online fares are for.
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Old Dec 22nd, 2009, 11:42 AM
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Dear ellie_pol, I can imagine your state of mind.
I wanted to see everything on my 1st trip to Europe.
You can do an orientation trip this time and then decide where you want to go in your next visits.
You can also save your time by adding more overnight trains.

Are you taking a 15 days Eurail pass.
That works out well.
But it doesn't cover London part.
You can actually think of more places in Europe and keep london and Scotland together in the next trip, as it is out of your route and you have to spend more time and money to reach there.

There are a few places that are a must see..
Salzburg, Venice, Heidelburg/ or Rhine valley / or Romantic strasse in Germany.

If you stay within Schengen countries, you can get full worth of your Eurail pass.
There are overnight trains from--

Paris to Basel-and Lucerne/
Geneva to Venice
Venice to Vienna
Salzburg to Frankfurt ( starting point of Romantic strasse to Munich)
Munich- Amsterdam

All the best.
Have a nice trip.
Wish you many more trips to Europe.
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