hikrchick

Hello Fodorites! It feels good to be back! Back in the day, I was here a lot, and traveling a lot with Hikrguy -- our last fabulous trip was Cornwall in summer 2018, and then a short trip to Scotland in summer 2019. The past few years we have stayed close to home and we are ready to return to travel -- and we chose Portugal as our next adventure. In October 1999 when I was still single in my early 30s, I participated in a 6-day photography workshop based in Lisbon and it was spectacular, doing photography lessons in Sintra, Cascais, Obidos, and Lisbon, including a fado performance, and I am eager to see how the intervening 20+ years have treated Portugal and to introduce Hikrguy to this lovely place.

Our dates are set -- Depart US on Tuesday April 18, returning on Saturday April 29. That gives us 10 nights -- arriving early Wednesday April 19, which will be Night 1.
I was all set to start researching and preparing a 10-day itinerary, and then an amazing thing happened -- Hikrguy's employer gave an extra holiday bonus as a travel credit. The requirement is that it has to be booked through this special business-travel company, with real travel advisors. Hikrguy and I are very informal, casual people and DIY travelers and this sort of full-service travel agency is unfamiliar to us -- I tell them where we want to go and they book it and suggest hotels, I guess. Like back in the pre-Internet days when I used to travel in the 1980s-1990s.

So the burden of booking things is off my plate but I have to still come up with an itinerary. Also, it means I can go up one step from hotels that we would normally stay in and try something a bit more upscale, since it's basically a gift and we're not paying for it.

My initial thoughts are that I'd like to divide the 10 days between Lisbon and Porto, and perhaps somewhere in the middle. I'd prefer the first and last nights in Lisbon and the rest is up in the air as to a schedule.
Not interested in renting a car, I'd prefer to go by train and then have a day trip or private tour somewhere. I'd love to visit some wineries where port is made. I've started reading Maitai Tom's excellent adventure and have seen Maribel's name come up several times and I'm hoping that she will share some wisdom.
As I start researching, I have a couple questions.
1. What is the difference between staying in Porto and staying in the Douro Valley.
2. We would prefer a neighborhood in Lisbon that is somewhat more quiet -- we are more morning-people rather than late-night go-out types. What would you suggest?
3. Are there any ways to visit a national park for some short day walks, going by public transportation?
4. we would be interested in recommendations of restaurants that specialize in fish. I follow kosher food guidelines, and we don't eat pork or shellfish.
5. Back in 1999, the photo group did a day trip Lisbon-Sintra-Cascais-Lisbon. Is something like that possible as a loop on a train or would it be better to do two separate days? We are early risers and would have no trouble being on an 8 a.m. train somewhere.

I did see someone posted asking about a Jewish history tour, which we also would be interested in, and I've taken note of Maribel's suggestion.
Looking forward to any advice or suggestions from the Fodors hive mind.
--hikrchick

Maribel

Initial question--have you booked your airfare yet, and if not, can you do an open jaw, arriving in Porto and departing from Lisbon to avoid backtracking?

The comfortable and cheap high-speed train will take you from Porto to Lisbon. You could even make an intermediate stop for a 2-night stay in Coimbra, on the AP line. So start in Porto, if possible, take the AP to Coimbra for a mid-way stay, then take the AP to Lisbon for your final nights. So 4-2-4 or just a night in Coimbra for 4-1-5.
cp.pt

Answers to your questions:
1. The Douro is all about wine touring, hiking, photography (but not so pretty in early to mid April as the spectacular late fall). To best enjoy it, you need a car or hire a taxi to take you around. It's a good 1.5 drive from Porto to Régua and the prettiest part of the valley is the Cima Corgo, beyond Régua up to Pinhão where the most prestigious quintas or wine estates are found.

2. For quiet in Lisbon, please avoid the heavy nightlife area of the Bairro Alto and some streets in the Chiado can be very noisy as well, around the Praça Luis de Camôes, which is a transport hub of tuk tuks, the trams, taxis plus shoppers and sightseers.
Ditto to the tourist-soaked Baixa on the pedestrian Via Augusta, which can be a tsunami of foot traffic, especially during holidays like Holy Week when Spaniards "invade". . Luckily, you'll miss the Holy Week crowds.

A quieter area would be a side street to the east or west of the Avenida da Liberdade, but still walkable to the Chiado & Baixa. We stay in a super quiet area there, at the Hotel Britânia, on the street that runs east and parallel to the Avenida. No noise, period, but a nice walk down to the center of the action.
Another nice hotel belonging to the same excellent Heritage group is the Lisboa Plaza, to the west of the Avenida, closer to Rossio.
Or a quieter, more tucked away corner of Baixa at the Hotel AlmaLusa or the Corpo Santo, away from the always crowded Praça do Comércio, the huge gateway square into the city.

3. The huge national park of Peneda-Gerês is quite a hike from Porto and would require either a rental car or going on a long day trip with these folks--
https://www.oportoadventuretours.com
https://juliedawnfox.com/peneda-gere...ip-from-porto/

There's plenty of nice hiking around Sintra, but I haven't done it.
https://www.sintratreks.com

4. For fin fish, while in Porto take the 500 double decker bus to Matosinhos for a grilled seafood feast at any of the restaurants across from the fish auction house, on Rua Herois de França, like VALENTIM. In Lisbon there's SEA ME and AQUI HÁ PEIXE in Chiado.
https://ovalentim.com
https://peixariamoderna.com/en/
https://aquihapeixe.pt/en/

5. Because of the huge crowds in Sintra these days, it's become increasingly difficult to do the Lisbon-Sintra-Cascais-Lisbon loop in one (exhausting) day. You'd need a very early start and a late return, plus the Sintra-Cabo da Roca-Cascais section would be by the slow, 1-hour bus, not train. It would be do-able if you plan on just outdoor photography and not plan to hit all the (mostly very crowded) 5 Sintra monuments, but you'd have to be very selective.

Hope this helps to get your planning started.

Jewish History Lisbon guide is fantastic--Professor Paulo Scheffer
https://www.lisbonexplorer.com/jewis...on-tour-2.html

hikrchick

Hello Maribel -
I followed your suggestion and we are flying into Lisbon, departing EWR 18 April, and flying home from Porto on Saturday 29 April. This makes things a whole lot easier!

I told our travel advisor that we prefer a side street off of Libertade, so she is finding something.
A possible plan could be, now that we don't have to backtrack and spend an extra night in Lisbon, something like this:
19 April: Arrive Lisbon, overnight Lisbon 1st night
20 April: Lisbon - overnight 2nd night
21 April: Lisbon - overnight 3rd night
22 April: Lisbon - overnight 4th night
23 April: Lisbon to Coimbra - overnight Coimbra
24 April: Coimbra - overnight Coimbra
25 April: Coimbra to Porto - overnight Porto 1st night
26 April: Porto - overnight 2nd night
27 April: Porto - overnight 3rd night
28 April: Porto - overnight 4th night
29 April: Depart Porto.

Question is regarding Coimbra. I saw that there is a nearby Roman archeological site, the Conimbriga Roman Ruins, which sounds fascinating. I did some research on the buses and they're not frequent, so we'd need a full day in Coimbra to visit there with the rare buses. However, I might want 4 full days / 5 nights in Lisbon, there is a lot to do. Thank you for the recommendation of the Jewish History guide, we will definitely reserve a date with him.

The other thing I discovered is that there's a national day, Freedom Day, is 25 April. I'm not sure how that will impact us, maybe the train will be on a holiday schedule from Coimbra to Porto.
Thoughts?

KarenWoo

We were in Lisbon on April 25 in 2018, and nothing was impacted. However, we did not travel by train anywhere. According to my trip report, we took a taxi to Belem, spent the day there, took a taxi back to Lisbon, and had dinner that night at Bonjardim Restaurante. So Freedom Day, which commemorates the Carnation Revolution, did not impact anything we did in Lisbon and Belem. I am sure Maribel can give you a more definitive answer.

Are you not interested in visiting Sintra? I notice it's not on your itinerary. Or are you planning on visiting Sintra as a day trip from Lisbon? If you are interested in Sintra and if you can, I think it's better to spend a night or 2 in Sintra. We spent 5 nights in Lisbon and that included a day trip to Sintra, which was not ideal but better than not seeing it at all. Because of the daytrip to Sintra, I wish we had an extra night in Lisbon. There were a few things we didn't have time to do. Our daytrip to Sintra was with a bus tour, which we usually don't do, but we were feeling lazy. (This was the end of a 3-week trip.) The bus tour included about a 15-minute stop in Cascais and a drive through Estoril. We wished we had more time here as well.

Maribel

The bus schedule to the Conímbriga Roman ruins is very limited. It´s not that far from Coimbra so I would ask your desk staff to arrange a taxi to take you and then to pick you up. It shouldn’t be that expensive. Between the ruins outside and the museum will spent about 2 hours, but you may spend less. We went in our rental car upon arrival in Coimbra, then started our tour of the town later in the afternoon and all day the next day.

The 25 of April should not impact the train schedule. I don't think the AP, Alfa Pendicular, fast train will be on a holiday schedule, but I’m not absolutely sure.

I’ve looked at the closing dates of the monuments belonging to the Patrimonio Cultural and also the Parque de Sintra and I don’t see April 25 as a closed day.
For monuments belonging to the Patrimonio Cultural, state run monuments, such as the Jerónimos Monastery, the closing dates are May 1, May 2, Easter Sunday, December 25

As to the Sintra monuments belonging to the Parque de Sintra, the closing days are only Dec. 25 and Jan.1
The Quinta da Regaleira is privately run and closes Dec. 24, 25, 31 and Jan. 1

https://www.parquesdesintra.pt/en/pl...es-and-prices/

https://www.regaleira.pt/en/visitas

For Lisbon lodging your agent may want to check the Heritage group, the Britânia Art Deco, the Lisboa Plaza or the Heritage Liberdade. They do give a nice senior discount to us plus free breakfast, free entrance to several museums including the magnificent Gulbenkian, afternoon tea with custard tarts and at the Britânia they put a decanter of port in our room that the maid refills! or the Lisbon Wine Hotel, on a side street near the Bomjardím restaurant (piri piri chicken) or on that same street the Residencial Florescente.

hikrchick

Hi Karen,
We're going to do a day-trip to Sintra from Lisbon. We can get on an 8 a.m. train, be there at 9 a.m. and spend the day. We're morning people so it isn't going to be a problem to be up early.

I spent 6 days in Lisbon in October 1999 as part of a photography workshop, and we visited Sintra, Cascais, Estoril in one day for photography, and it was all spectacular. Maribel said that it's not possible to go Lisbon -->Sintra -->Cascais --> Lisbon, so we will probably put Cascais on a different morning. But there is a lot to do in Lisbon so if we don't get to it that will be OK. I think the priority day trip is Sintra.

I haven't gone down to the details of what to do when in Lisbon, but Belem is definitely on our list!