Haven17

I'm hoping you can help me figure out our itinerary for our summer trip. We had a wonderful time in Ireland last summer, and I I have many Fodorites to thank for their help planning our Ireland itinerary so now I'm back and hoping for more wonderful advice.

We will be flying into Brussels and out of Zurich, and we're having a difficult time figuring out how to get from one point to the other. This trip starts in the beginning of August.

These are the three options we're considering right now, but I welcome any alternatives.

ITINERARY A: Belgium, Paris, and the Berner Oberland
1: Day in Brussels, stay in Brussels
2: Brussels to Bruges, Stay in Bruges
3: Bruges to Paris, stay in Paris
4: Stay in Paris
5: Stay in Paris
6: Paris to Murren, Switzerland, stay in Murren
7: Stay in Murren
8: Stay in Murren
9: Stay in Murren
10: Murren to Lucerne, Stay in Lucerne at the Hotel des Alpes
11: Lucerne to Zurich, Flight leaves at 1:05 PM

ITINERARY B: Belgium, Amsterdam, and the Berner Oberland
1: Day in Brussels, stay in Brussels
2: Brussels to Bruges, Stay in Bruges
3: Bruges to Amsterdam, stay in Amsterdam
4: Stay in Amsterdam
5: Amsterdam to ? (Koln?)
6: ? to Murren, Switzerland, stay in Murren
7: Stay in Murren
8: Stay in Murren
9: Stay in Murren
10: Murren to Lucerne, Stay in Lucerne at the Hotel des Alpes
11: Luzern to Zurich, Flight leaves at 1:05 PM

ITINERARY C: Belgium and The Berner Oberland
1: Day in Brussels, stay in Brussels
2: Stay in Brussels
3: Brussels to Bruges, stay in Bruges
4: Stay in Bruges
5: Bruges to ? (Koln?) Stay in ?
6: ? to Murren, Switzerland, stay in Murren at Eiger Guesthouse
7: Stay in Murren
8: Stay in Murren
9: Stay in Murren
10: Murren to Lucerne, Stay in Lucerne at the Hotel des Alpes
11: Luzern to Zurich, Flight leaves at 1:05 PM

We like the idea of spending our last five nights in Switzerland, and I've already booked hotels for Murren and Lucerne, though those bookings can be canceled at any time. The reason we're starting the trip in Belgium is that I'll be presenting at a conference in Belgium, so my husband is flying out at the end of that conference.

We have both visited Amsterdam and Paris. We have not visited Belgium, Germany, or Switzerland. We plan on taking a long trip to Germany in two summers, though.

Thank you in advance for your advice.

Haven17

My husband just vetoed Itinerary A because he doesn't want to go back to Paris this summer.

It looks like we're choosing between B and C. Thanks again for your help!

usbeauty

I am voting for C because backtracking to Amsterdam only to spend one full day there is not worth it. Amsterdam is worth 3- 4 days at least. I would also suggest making a day trip to Bruges from Brussels in order to minimize your hotel changes. If you go to Koln, you'd have to return through Brussels anyway.

Day 3: Day trip to Bruges
Day 4: Lv Brussels to Koln
Day 5: Koln
Day 6: to Murren and then as written.

Haven17

Thank you, usbeauty, that's great advice. I'm leaning toward C now, as well.

I've read and heard so many wonderful things about Bruges that I'd like to stay there, but will consider taking only a day trip to minimize our hotel changes.

Should we skip Koln and go straight from Brussels to Switzerland? The train trip won't be as scenic as if we went along the Rhine, but I'm wondering if that will be a better bet. We plan on taking a long trip to Germany in the next couple of years, so it isn't as if we'll never visit.

That itinerary would look something like this:
Days 1-3: Brussels/Bruges
Day 4: To Switzerland, stay in Basel? Bern?
Day 5: Basel to Murren
Day 6-9: Murren
Days 10 & 11: Lucerne

I tried to find a sleeper train from Belgium to Switzerland but couldn't.

I'm still wondering if we're packing too much in to our short trip. I wish we could have started in Switzerland, as that is really where we wanted to visit this summer, but I'm presenting at a conference in Belgium, which is why we're starting there. (We're excited about visiting Belgium too, don't get me wrong! But we had our eyes on Switzerland for this summer.)

pollux

If you start in Brussels, then remember that Bruges (Brugge) is less then an hour away. It can be easily done as a daytrip. (Trains at least every half hour)Brugge is rather small. I would not spend more then a day there.
There are good train connections both from Köln (every hour ICE)and from Paris (about every two hours TGV)to Basel. Change there for interlaken then again in Lauterbrunnen and again for the last part after the cable car. Hotels (marriot) in Köln are cheaper as is the ICE providing you book at least 14 days ahead. Hope this helps..

have a good trip.

Haven17

Pollux--Thank you very much for the information!

PalenQ

There are two railpasses you may want to consider - either the Eurail Select Saverpass valid in Benelux - Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg as one country and Germany (or France, depending on route) and Switzerland as the other two - a 3-Country Eurail Select Pass. But if you are traveling around Switzerland and basing in Murren then the Swiss Pass has far more benefits - like covering travel to and from Murren in full whereas Eurailpass only takes you to Interlaken and then you must pay each time to Murren and back from there. Plus Swiss Passes give you 50% discounts on say Murren to Schilthorn cableway - Eurail zilch, etc. If going thru Germany you may want to look at the Germany-Benelux Railpass along with the Swiss - great sites IMO for planning a train journey in these countries - www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. For schedules for all those countries I always use the Wunderbar IMO www.bahn.de or German Railways online schedules - easiest I've seen to use. Beauty of a pass in Benelux and Germany and Switzerland is that you can just hop on any train anytime almost (except Thalys and ICE Sprinter trains but you need not take any of those) -

Haven17

PalenQ--Thank you very much! The rail planning has been the most taxing part of this trip for me, and I really appreciate your links and information. THANK YOU!

joannyc

I spent three nights in Brugge and could have spent longer as I wasn't able to see every thing that I wanted to. If you only want a very light overview of Brugge, you could do it in a day. I loved it and wished I had planned on a longer stay there.

Didn't think very much of Brussels. I spent a couple of nights there upon arrival. You could spend 1 night and then head onto Brugge.

Gent is another option.

PalenQ

I like Gent, Bruges and Antwerp a lot better than Brussels, to me one of the least romantic least old-worldish cities in europe - not to say that it does not have great museums, restaurants and shopping due to the EU HQs being there but the city for the casual tourist is a dud IMO. a day there to see the Grand' Place and pissing boy and move on.

NanBug

I also love Bruges and have spent many nights there without seeing it all or feeling bored. Gent is lovely, too. Brussels did not light my fire, compared to the other towns/cities.

I'd see Brussels in a day if you must, en route to Bruges. Store your bags in a train station locker while you roam, then head to Bruges.

PalenQ

some folks who only go to Bruges on a day trip from say Brussels at times report they did not really like it due to the many tourists who gather in just a few places - like the main market square with tall belfry and immediate preceints - precients that are carpeted with tourist shops so since many of these folk simply do not venture into the many parts of Bruges that are not innundated by tourists they do not appreiciate say the ancient quays lined with old fancy flemish facades of old warehouses lining the quays, extant from days when Bruges was one of the world's busiest ports and largest towns - but when the ports silted up and the port activity moved over to Antwerp this part of Bruges stagnated, being left in its ancient look and today an exceptional place to wander around.

Upshot is that staying in Bruges and ferreting out the various parts that the bus tour crowd never gets to is its real joy IMO and seeing the place after the tourist mobs have left at night - when the many humpbacked wooden drawbridges spanning canals are also wondrously lit, etc.

Or even taking a boat ride to Damme, one of Bruges' old ports a few miles away where yet more ancient Flemish facades await your oogling.

I would consider using Bruges as a base - a lovely base to hop back to at night - a very romantic looking place then and hopping from it to places like Gent, Antwerp or Brussels, all easy train trips away. Or rent a bike and cycle over to the nearby North Sea coast, lined by swank resort towns with dedicated bike paths going everywhere. Belgium is a biker's paradise and pedaling around like the locals to me is a fun thing to do. Pedaling along the main canal to Damme is a short but fantastic trip IME.

NanBug

Excellent advice from PalenQ above.

That bike ride to Damme is really lovely!

PalenQ

another quirky thing to do from a Bruges base is to bop over by train to say Oostende (sp?) - so called Queen of the Belgian North Sea resorts and hop the old Vicinal inter-urban tramway that rolls along the sandy coast and thru several suave resorts like Kneikke-Heist and Bambrugge (sp on both?) - explore these unique seaside resorts for a relaxed day far different from traipsing thru Flemish art museums or old churches IMO.

Haven17

Thank you so much for the wonderful information, PalenQ, NanBug, and Joannyc!

I'm at a conference in Belgium right now, and my husband is coming out once it's finished. I'm going to look into a day trip to Damme, and we are staying in Bruges for two nights instead of Brussels, so I'm really excited to hear all of the good things about it!

Thanks again!

NanBug

Way to go, Haven! You'll love it, we swear.

joannyc

Yes, you will love it!

Haven17

I had a wonderful time in Belgium and Switzerland! We stayed in Koln for a night, too, and even that was great. I am seriously slacking in writing up a trip report, but will work on it and post when it's ready.

A big thank you to everyone who helped make this trip so wonderful!!!!

Wa145nzJeffery

"I'm going to look into a day trip to Damme"

There isn't very much to see at Damme - it's only one main street and square. It's a good place to go for the actual journey by boat,bike or even to walk, and to spend an hour having a look and a coffee but nothing else.

PalenQ

I agree with Damme - ain't much but the ain't much is rather grandiose - a string of old warehouses extant from days from Damme was Bruge's port long long ago before it too was silted up and activity moved to Antwerp - a day trip to nearby Gent IMO would be much much better - Gent is a Bruges in many ways but also more a real workaday town - lots of Flemish art, huge cathedral - Castle of Counts of Flanders with dread torture chamber, a Amsterdam-like Red-Light District and lovely Bruges-like canal.