myopinion

Check outside of the Fodors site - at cruisecritic.com cruisemates.com cruise-addicts.com -- and see if you don't agree that they are all around more polite and considerate or everyone's opinions. None of the sarcastic, bad attitude you see often on this site, whether it be U.S., cruise or Europe. Just my observation. They offer just as much advice as Fodors, although I do find a lot at Fodors too. Just not all the negative "nasties" you find here.

xman

Nikole let me ask you a question. Do you dream or ever plan of traveling outside of the U.S.? Probably. You do not strike me as the type of person that would be dogmatic in her views. That in itself makes you better educated. <BR> <BR>The people I am talking about have never travelled, planned to travel or dream or travelling outside their safe little cocoon. <BR> <BR>Therefore, their mentality and perspective is limited is well. With that in mind. I again ask what is the major catalyst that causes people on this particularly thread to be so hostile to their fellow human beings? <BR> <BR>Why are the people on the European thread much more polite when it comes to comments? <BR> <BR>All I can figure is that because they are more open minded and inquistive in nature is that they are more receptive to opinions that differ from their own. <BR> <BR>You tell me. Why are people so mean on this thread?

Cathy

Interesting question! After thinking about it, I think certain forms of travel do tend to attract more provential people. I think more provential people are attracted to package travel and that can be in the form of a cruise or a package tour to anywhere. The cruise industry does contribute to this but they respond to what people want. <BR>A cruise does not have to be a provential experience. I cruise because it is the most economical way to island hop in the caribbean. I just got off the Destiny and had a great time. Before the cruise, I flew to Vieques and explored some of the beaches and eco travel there. On the cruise, I took none of the shore excursions. I traveled by myself and got around the islands by sharing taxis and meeting some very wonderful island people. I rented a car in Curacao and went to a public beach that was free, beautiful and had fantastic snorkling. Same with Aruba. <BR> <BR>Asking about the dress codes or the food does not make a person provential. It only makes someone informed. But I agree more Americans need to see a vacation as a time to broaden one's mind and experiences. An adventurous person can make any form of travel an adventure.

xman

You are a positive example of my theory. You are not stuck in the I'm going to sit on my rear and not try anything new. You have an open mind and are willing to try new things. Plus your comments were directed towards the question and not me the person. <BR> <BR>Most of the negative people on this board tend to point fingers at a single person rather than address the question or topic at hand on this thread. <BR> <BR>On the threads where people are more traveled and diverse they tend to focus on the question and not the messenger.

xxxxxx

Usually the white trash that frequent the short 3-4 trips coming out of Florida, also have short minds.

Bob

Mr. xxx didn't prove anything could care less about our theory just making a general statement but glad I gave you a chance to come out of you cloister life to make a comment. Your welcome

xman

All comments are appreciated. Bob I'm still trying to decipher what any of yours mean. They are to fragmented in thought to convey a viable message. <BR> <BR>The gist of the question I posed is this: Is the more highly traveled person more polite because of their various experiences with different things. For example cultural differences. To me it seems that way. <BR>The person that is more set in their ways of traveling, that limits their exposure to different people, environment, food, etc... seems to be more abrasive in their replies and always goes after the person making a comment and not the issue at hand. <BR> <BR>The mentality seems to rear it's ugly head the most on this thread involving cruises, and not on the other threads that promote a wider array of travel. <BR> <BR>Do you think this is true?

Bob

In your earlier post you stated I proved your theory, And I responded by saying I don't think proved any theory and my response wasn't negative or flaming or uncultured but just my (obviously not well stated response) to the discussion about vacations and my theory about why the heck it should be anything but a vacation. I don't believe civility or culture can be acquired by ones surroundings. It is something that is taught or acquired in ones formative years. <BR>I guess the big thing would be the definiton of culture. which I expect is different in San Diego and it is in Kanasas City as it is in NYC as it is in London as it is in Belgrade. <BR>I (maybe like you) have been have been fortunate enought to have been all over the world 20 years of it paid for by Uncle Sam and 12 paid for a company with world wide contracts and have seen just about every kind of "culture" anyone could possibly define in each and eveyplace. <BR> <BR>Regarding this board for some reason it has a very high of BRAND NAME loyalists and perhaps it isn't patrolled like some of the other boards are. <BR> <BR>And I relly don't think that Eurpoeans are anymore open minded or inquisitive then Americans. <BR>

Nikole

Ahhh now though you are going to get into more of a philosophical question. Are people more polite because they are well traveled. Or are they well traveled because of some factor(s) that have also led them to be more polite. <BR> <BR>I think because of how I was raised I tend to be more polite. I am well-read and educated because my parents placed value on those items. I believe it is because of all of those aspects that I enjoy travelling (and yes look forward to traveling to a variety of places.) <BR> <BR>I do not think that because I have not traveled much out of the US, has any bearing on how I treat people. <BR> <BR>I also don't believe that this board foisters rude behavior any more than any other board. I have viewed various travel boards and find that when there are no guidelines, people will be more aggressive and bad behavior takes center stage. This happens also happens with a much higher frequency in forums where posterd are permited to be completely anonymous. I think it is actually part of what draws many people to the internet, and to chat rooms. <BR> <BR>While I have not visited all of the boards at Fodors, I have visited a few, and found there are still those who are rude and will put someone down just because they can. <BR> <BR>Well that is my theory on the subject. <BR> <BR>

xman

Very good and interesting comment Nikole. Bob I still don't think you get my point. I am not talking about Europeans over other nationalities. I have just noticed that the people that post on the Europe thread tend to be more civil to their fellow posters. The people on that board tend to be more adventurous unlike most (not All) that tend to stick to the same thing over and over (and trying different ships is not the adventurous spirit I'm discussing). I also believe that because they expose themselves to a variety of different things (which can be done in the U.S. as well i.e. the Adirondacks in N.Y. are quite different from the Rockies) it makes them more open minded to a different opinion other than their own. The cruisers do the same thing over and over and over again. It's safe and they don't need to be versatile (language is a good example) in any way. Just like their comments that are dogmatic. So try something new. It's like food. How do you know if you don't like it if you haven't tried it? Or music? <BR>As beautiful as classical is not everybody likes it and some people love it.

Sally

<BR>Xman, <BR>I could not have said it any better and I agree with everything you have posted - 100%.

T. Davis

You will find that cruisers are complainers. They are always looking for something free. The slightest thing that goes wrong, they are expecting the line to give them a free cruise. <BR> <BR>There is a lack of etiquette too. Many like to discuss what they paid for the cruise with their dinner companions and anyone that will engage them. <BR> <BR>As soon as they have one cruise under the belt, they compare and compare. We have started asking for a table for two to avoid these gripers. <BR> <BR>They go to another country and complain about the proverty, yet we have lots of it right here in the good old USA. <BR> <BR>Cruisers also think because they are tipping someone that the can treat that person like sh*t. <BR> <BR>I am not sure, but part of the answer may be the fact that the cruise lines overbuilt(still even more ships are coming) and are discounting the price to fill the ships resulting in every Tom, Dick and Mary on board.

xxx

I agree T Davis..kind of like the person sitting next to you on the plane and asking how much you paid for your ticket. I always answer with such an outrageously low price. It usually shuts them right up!

xx

I hate to say this. I liked it back in the early days when every Tom, Dick, Harry couldn't travel. They may have learned how to travel but not how to act. It's a shame that etiquette classes aren't required to travel. and yes I know my commentjust violated every rule of good etiquette but just had to get it off my chest. Bon Voyage

Ron

T. Davis on cruisers/complainers <BR> I think you have hit the nail exactly on the head.I couldn't agree more. <BR>Amen brother!!

Nikole

But do you really think it is because of money and finances that this has come about? I don't think that this is economic related, I think this is a general malaise of society. I see plenty of people act this way at work, or in a store, each and every day. It is the "world owes me" attitude. It is poor manners, lack of respect, lack of a good work ethic and professional behavior. The ironic thing to me is, I thought these attitudes were only linked to those of my generation...I was very suprised to see it in all generations! <BR> <BR>I don't just see this behavior on cruises but every where I have gone. Of course now we've deviated from the original topic again...

allovertraveler

Just by observing these threads, who really cares what someone else paid for their trip? There are just some people who shop for bargains for the thrill while neglecting the true soul of travelling. I feel sorry for those who cannot look beyond their own noses. 20 years ago I can attest to a more sophisticated type of traveller, whether it be cruises or flying. When you open something up to a mass market you are bound to get a mix of people with various attitudes. Too bad, they better not start giving away the 6* cruises, then I'll jump ship and have to book the Residence of the Sea.

Eric

I think that cruising has become too cheap. It has allowed service, food, living quarters and the such to degrade. It allows people who have never been somewhere to feel as if they have now been to five places. They are now experts on all aspects of these third world countries or resorts areas. <BR> <BR>Many of these people save for many years to go on the "trip of a lifetime" where everything must be perfect. This reminds me of the family who saves for years to give their children one glimse of Disney World at the Motel Six and then complains that it didn't meet their expectations. Generally these people had too high of expectations because they didn't check things out in advance and either trusted a travel agent that they just met or found some great deal below deck on the internet. <BR>They also whine and complain and no on wants to be around them on the trip. <BR> <BR>People should remember that you generally get what you pay for and cruising used to be for only the affluent. Now because of overbuilding, there are deals to be had, but they aren't quite up to the same quality that they used to be because it is CHEAPER. I have lowered my expectations on any vacation that I have not stayed in 5 star hotels, because they generally are average and I now put most cruise lines into that category that don't charge at least $5000.00 per week per person. I believe people need to get a reality check and do their home work before they go on vacation and they wouldn't complain as much when they returned. <BR> <BR>Just one man's opinion!

xman

Nikole I politely disagree. I do think that part of the underlying factor can be related to economics(it does not always hold true). Unfortunately, these people do not understand to take the time to learn the history or customs of an area they are traveling to because on a cruise everything is self- contained and neatly wrapped. For instance when you travel to France and are shopping it is considered polite to introduce yourself to the clerk with Bonjour Madame Mademoiselle and part ways with Merci. This you learn from research aka spending money on books and what not. Yes, it does cost money to travel correctly if you are not a sesoned traeler and no the rules. The cruiser doesn't bother and in most cases is pretty uncultured because they don't have or will not spend the money to see a broadway play etc... The table we were seated at (and this was on RCCL a so called up scale ship) the couple did not know what phantom of the opera was. Call me a snob if you want (sans nobilitie). Yes, sometimes is does take money to learn and sometimes it does not (after all librarys are still public) but the cruiser does not take advantage of either (not always people).

Nikole

Of course you may disagree! Afterall that is what openly discussing a topic is about. Although, I do want to point out that I stated that I do NOT think that this is economic related. I do not think it is because cruises are cheap. I think it is a general malaise of society, not limited to just cruise ships!