Baltic Cruise in June
Jul 6th, 2012, 05:00 PM
#21
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@Percy, he took us through the main drag, pointed out the bus stop where we could take the bus back to the dock and that's about it. There are major places along Mannerheiminte Street other than shops and hotels?
Michael didn't say very much throughout the tour. At the church in the rock, all he said was this is the building, this is the year it was built. Who built it. And you have 12 minutes to look around on your own and he wandered off by himself. Pretty well the same at the Sebelius Park. One will have to ask question and he will answer.
Just to be fair, Michael is a nice enough guy but really he is not cut out to be a tour guide. On one stop, he disappeared and came back with 2 bottles of water for someone who had asked him about bottled water. He didn't ask if anyone else wanted anything, he didn't told people where tehy can buy the water, he didn't even tell us where the heck we were. It seems his favorite saying is "you have x minutes to explore onm your own." and the x is never 5 or 10. It was 8 minutes, 7 minutes, 12 minutes. Huh? I guess the expectation is that we have all sycronise our watches.
At the Catheral square (?), below teh steps and in front of the main monument, he was so busy explaining to one person how to take the bus back to the dock and what other sights he won't be taking the group to see and how to get to all those places, that he took the time to draw a map and writing directions etc, all for one person, and totally ignored eveyrone else.
Needness to say, there were a lot of unhappy people but no one seems willing to interupt their private conversation. I guess we were all waiting for them to stop so the tour guide can actually "guide" the tour. We all stood there watching them and wondering what all the buidlings and everything else were.
I fincally decided to interupt and told the fellow who was monopolising the guide's time (on something that could be done at the end of tour) that he should hire a private guide if he wanted 100% of the guide's time as it is unfair to the group. You could almost here applause at the background.
This is probably the first and only time that I failed to tip a tour guide. I hope that person tipped him well as I don't beleif anyone else tipped the guide either. When the bus stopped at the market sqaure, everybody just left.
@Larry, I did sent an email to Alla complimenting Svetlana and mentioned what had happended at Helsinki. Alla sent me back a reply and thanked me for my comemnt. All she said was she will have to look at changing times in Helsinki.
There were quite a few ships in Stockholm that day. We were at the dock that was furthest away, at the end of the harbor. We drove pass quite a few ships along the way and there were two smaller cruise ships anchored near the bridge and tender people ashore. They seemed to be at a much better location.
It took us more half an hour to get to the bridge from the dock. I knew bikes were faster as we saw people on bicycles passing the bus and we never caught up to them.
The Vasa museum was on the other side of the harbor. You can see it but can't get there quick enough. If only we can just tender or ferry over ...
I don't believe they painted it. It was preserved in it's original state as they had put a coating of soemthing on it.
The building was quite dark.
Michael didn't say very much throughout the tour. At the church in the rock, all he said was this is the building, this is the year it was built. Who built it. And you have 12 minutes to look around on your own and he wandered off by himself. Pretty well the same at the Sebelius Park. One will have to ask question and he will answer.
Just to be fair, Michael is a nice enough guy but really he is not cut out to be a tour guide. On one stop, he disappeared and came back with 2 bottles of water for someone who had asked him about bottled water. He didn't ask if anyone else wanted anything, he didn't told people where tehy can buy the water, he didn't even tell us where the heck we were. It seems his favorite saying is "you have x minutes to explore onm your own." and the x is never 5 or 10. It was 8 minutes, 7 minutes, 12 minutes. Huh? I guess the expectation is that we have all sycronise our watches.
At the Catheral square (?), below teh steps and in front of the main monument, he was so busy explaining to one person how to take the bus back to the dock and what other sights he won't be taking the group to see and how to get to all those places, that he took the time to draw a map and writing directions etc, all for one person, and totally ignored eveyrone else.
Needness to say, there were a lot of unhappy people but no one seems willing to interupt their private conversation. I guess we were all waiting for them to stop so the tour guide can actually "guide" the tour. We all stood there watching them and wondering what all the buidlings and everything else were.
I fincally decided to interupt and told the fellow who was monopolising the guide's time (on something that could be done at the end of tour) that he should hire a private guide if he wanted 100% of the guide's time as it is unfair to the group. You could almost here applause at the background.
This is probably the first and only time that I failed to tip a tour guide. I hope that person tipped him well as I don't beleif anyone else tipped the guide either. When the bus stopped at the market sqaure, everybody just left.
@Larry, I did sent an email to Alla complimenting Svetlana and mentioned what had happended at Helsinki. Alla sent me back a reply and thanked me for my comemnt. All she said was she will have to look at changing times in Helsinki.
There were quite a few ships in Stockholm that day. We were at the dock that was furthest away, at the end of the harbor. We drove pass quite a few ships along the way and there were two smaller cruise ships anchored near the bridge and tender people ashore. They seemed to be at a much better location.
It took us more half an hour to get to the bridge from the dock. I knew bikes were faster as we saw people on bicycles passing the bus and we never caught up to them.
The Vasa museum was on the other side of the harbor. You can see it but can't get there quick enough. If only we can just tender or ferry over ...
I don't believe they painted it. It was preserved in it's original state as they had put a coating of soemthing on it.
The building was quite dark.
Jul 6th, 2012, 06:49 PM
#22
<" Are there major places along Mannerheimintie other than shops and hotels"> ?
Eschew , yes there are many key sites along Mannerheimintie Street, and I was thinking that Michael pointed these out to you.
From the Rock Church, which is only 3-4 blocks off Mannerheimintie, if you start from the Olympic Tower and heading all the way down to the Market Square these are the places.
1. Olympic Tower.
2. Paavo Nurmi Statue (Olympic hero won 9 Gold and 3 Silver medals)
3 Toolo Sports Hall
4. National Opera House
5. National Museum ( Presdient Clinton was here)
6. Finlandia Hall across Mannerheimintie from the National Museum... this is a lovely Concert Hall
7. Parliament Building
8. Little Parliament Building
9. Several Statues of past Presidents of Finland
10.Sebelius Academy ...named for Sebelius ( of course)
11. History Museum ..very lovely building to take a picture of.
From here the Rock Church is 2 1/2 blocks away.!
12. The Kiasma Museum, very lovely modern curved building right along Mannerheimintie.
13. Statue of Marshal Mannerheimintie in front of Kiasma
14. Kamppi Square Shopping Centre.
15. Forum Shopping Centre
And here half a block off Mannerheimintie is the famous Railway Station Building and Square which has....
the Finnish National Gallery ( very nice old Building
and also on Station Square is the Finnish National Theatre...
again a very nice building.
Now 2 1/2 block from here is the Cathedral Square or Senate Square .....
so you see I assumed Michael drove you down Mannerheimintie and pointed all these places out to you.
Like you said he is a nice guy but perhaps not cut out to be a tour guide.
Eschew , yes there are many key sites along Mannerheimintie Street, and I was thinking that Michael pointed these out to you.
From the Rock Church, which is only 3-4 blocks off Mannerheimintie, if you start from the Olympic Tower and heading all the way down to the Market Square these are the places.
1. Olympic Tower.
2. Paavo Nurmi Statue (Olympic hero won 9 Gold and 3 Silver medals)
3 Toolo Sports Hall
4. National Opera House
5. National Museum ( Presdient Clinton was here)
6. Finlandia Hall across Mannerheimintie from the National Museum... this is a lovely Concert Hall
7. Parliament Building
8. Little Parliament Building
9. Several Statues of past Presidents of Finland
10.Sebelius Academy ...named for Sebelius ( of course)
11. History Museum ..very lovely building to take a picture of.
From here the Rock Church is 2 1/2 blocks away.!
12. The Kiasma Museum, very lovely modern curved building right along Mannerheimintie.
13. Statue of Marshal Mannerheimintie in front of Kiasma
14. Kamppi Square Shopping Centre.
15. Forum Shopping Centre
And here half a block off Mannerheimintie is the famous Railway Station Building and Square which has....
the Finnish National Gallery ( very nice old Building
and also on Station Square is the Finnish National Theatre...
again a very nice building.
Now 2 1/2 block from here is the Cathedral Square or Senate Square .....
so you see I assumed Michael drove you down Mannerheimintie and pointed all these places out to you.
Like you said he is a nice guy but perhaps not cut out to be a tour guide.
Jul 7th, 2012, 05:22 AM
#23
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Just catching up here today. I agree the Hermitage and Peterhof need at least a full day each, or more. We only did the outside of Peterhof and spent many hours. Lovely.
One thing I was remembering about the Hermitage - we were there during a major heat wave and they had windows open. Some of the rooms sit right on the water and there was such a feeling of humidity - such amazing paintings being subjected to awful conditions. You're used to seeing climate control boxes in rooms at museums to make sure the paintings are protected - not wide open windows out onto the bay (sea? river? can't remember).
What a cruddy guide you had in Helsinki - really a shame. I guess Alla did not offer a refund or even apology?
Looking forward to seeing your pictures especially the WCs!
One thing I was remembering about the Hermitage - we were there during a major heat wave and they had windows open. Some of the rooms sit right on the water and there was such a feeling of humidity - such amazing paintings being subjected to awful conditions. You're used to seeing climate control boxes in rooms at museums to make sure the paintings are protected - not wide open windows out onto the bay (sea? river? can't remember).
What a cruddy guide you had in Helsinki - really a shame. I guess Alla did not offer a refund or even apology?
Looking forward to seeing your pictures especially the WCs!
Jul 7th, 2012, 07:26 AM
#24
Yep, it's picture time!!!!!
Jul 7th, 2012, 07:31 AM
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I do recall it being pretty dark in there. Its surprising to me that after 7 yrs. they have not begun to paint it to its original scheme. Maybe they abandonded that project.
I would be a litle upset inre to a guide who did not do too well, esp. at those prices.
I would be a litle upset inre to a guide who did not do too well, esp. at those prices.
Jul 8th, 2012, 08:01 AM
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@Percy, I should correct what I said about Michael. I had originally said that he did not said anything while we went through the main drag. I should rephrase that to say he didn't say much.
Of all the "landmarks" you pointed out, he did mention the Parliemnt building. There is an Olympic tower? And there is the Olympic hero? Hmm ... I think I did catch a glimps of the Opera House/Concert Hall. Are they the same building? There were a bunch of statutes all over, so they are past presidents? Intersting ...
Needless to say, Michael did not do a good job. I think he was still busy pointing out the bus stops. lol!
Don't get me wrong. We had a great time in Helsinki after we get off the bus. We walked around market square, sample various local food and look at all the handicrafts. We stopped at the City Hall, spend more than an hour there (and it was suppose to be just a pit stop). Beauitiful exhibits, plus the bonus "FLUSH" exhibitsd in the WC ... We walked along Mannerheimintie after that and window shopped, and when it was time, we took a cab back to the dock, it was around 12 Euros, and took maybe 15 to 20 minutes.
Regardless of the situation, we always made the best out of each situation. No point in getting upset and be msierable. You said to yourself "next", and move on. That's probably why there wasn't too much ink on the Helsinki tour originally on my TR.
@Leslie, now that you mentioned it, despite the fact that it was a cool day, windows were openned. Some paintings were behind glass covers but a lot of them were just hanging there. There were security (ok, old ladies sitting on a chair) in every room and there were stentions so that you can't get too close. I wonder if all those "paintings" on the wall were actually "prints on canvas".
I bought a "print on canvas" at the Hermitage museum and from a distance, it looked real enough. I would imagine the sun would fade the color of the paintings if the originals were actually hanging there all this time. They did mentioned a "terrorist" splashed acid on one of the paintings and it has been painstakingly repaired and Svetlanan even pointed out the "patch job".
@Larry, We heard nothing about "re-painting" but I did heard about possible expansion of the building. From a preservation point of view, a protective coat would better preserve it than painting it to the original color.
Of all the "landmarks" you pointed out, he did mention the Parliemnt building. There is an Olympic tower? And there is the Olympic hero? Hmm ... I think I did catch a glimps of the Opera House/Concert Hall. Are they the same building? There were a bunch of statutes all over, so they are past presidents? Intersting ...
Needless to say, Michael did not do a good job. I think he was still busy pointing out the bus stops. lol!
Don't get me wrong. We had a great time in Helsinki after we get off the bus. We walked around market square, sample various local food and look at all the handicrafts. We stopped at the City Hall, spend more than an hour there (and it was suppose to be just a pit stop). Beauitiful exhibits, plus the bonus "FLUSH" exhibitsd in the WC ... We walked along Mannerheimintie after that and window shopped, and when it was time, we took a cab back to the dock, it was around 12 Euros, and took maybe 15 to 20 minutes.
Regardless of the situation, we always made the best out of each situation. No point in getting upset and be msierable. You said to yourself "next", and move on. That's probably why there wasn't too much ink on the Helsinki tour originally on my TR.
@Leslie, now that you mentioned it, despite the fact that it was a cool day, windows were openned. Some paintings were behind glass covers but a lot of them were just hanging there. There were security (ok, old ladies sitting on a chair) in every room and there were stentions so that you can't get too close. I wonder if all those "paintings" on the wall were actually "prints on canvas".
I bought a "print on canvas" at the Hermitage museum and from a distance, it looked real enough. I would imagine the sun would fade the color of the paintings if the originals were actually hanging there all this time. They did mentioned a "terrorist" splashed acid on one of the paintings and it has been painstakingly repaired and Svetlanan even pointed out the "patch job".
@Larry, We heard nothing about "re-painting" but I did heard about possible expansion of the building. From a preservation point of view, a protective coat would better preserve it than painting it to the original color.
Jul 8th, 2012, 12:01 PM
#27
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Too funny. You're right maybe all of the real art is hidden away or hanging in Putin's house and those are just very good reproductions being exposed to the elements so recklessly.
That's the right attitude to make the best of a bad situation with a guide or whatever else. I'm glad you were able to see a good bit on your own.
Speaking of WCs - my favorite one ever is in a restaurant on the main square in Tallinn. Of course I forget the name. But it's built inside the original chimney - so it is almost pitch black and with soot-covered brick walls. Well, it sounds hellish but it really was fascinating. I should've gone back in with my camera - I regret that to this day!
That's the right attitude to make the best of a bad situation with a guide or whatever else. I'm glad you were able to see a good bit on your own.
Speaking of WCs - my favorite one ever is in a restaurant on the main square in Tallinn. Of course I forget the name. But it's built inside the original chimney - so it is almost pitch black and with soot-covered brick walls. Well, it sounds hellish but it really was fascinating. I should've gone back in with my camera - I regret that to this day!
Jul 8th, 2012, 01:26 PM
#28
Hi Eschew and Everyone
The National Opera House ( opened 1991)and the Finlandia Hall ( 1971) are two separate buildings about 5 blocks apart.
Yes, Finland honored their Olympic heroes and well they should, there is another satue by the Olypic Stadium , next to Paavo Nurmi , ...
this one is of Lasse Viren , he won 4 Gold Medals in the 1972 and 1976 Olympics. ( so it says in my notes ).
One of the past Presidentail statues at the Parliament buildng is of Kysto Kallio ( there are 4 statues in total that I have pictures of).
Sure looking forward to that WC FLUSH Exhibit.
Leslie:
I am going to see if I can track donw that restaurant for you!!! in Tallinn
The National Opera House ( opened 1991)and the Finlandia Hall ( 1971) are two separate buildings about 5 blocks apart.
Yes, Finland honored their Olympic heroes and well they should, there is another satue by the Olypic Stadium , next to Paavo Nurmi , ...
this one is of Lasse Viren , he won 4 Gold Medals in the 1972 and 1976 Olympics. ( so it says in my notes ).
One of the past Presidentail statues at the Parliament buildng is of Kysto Kallio ( there are 4 statues in total that I have pictures of).
Sure looking forward to that WC FLUSH Exhibit.
Leslie:
I am going to see if I can track donw that restaurant for you!!! in Tallinn
Jul 9th, 2012, 08:36 AM
#30
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@Percy, I doubt that I will be heading back to Helsinki anytime soon, not with what we have committed for the rest of this year and the next, plus the bucket list.
We sort of snapped photoes along the way so I might have some of the places youmentioned captured digitally. In all hoensty, it was all a blur.
If we ever head back to Helsinki again, that's what we would do. Take a cab to Market Sqaure. Take the ferry to the island (a World Heritage Site). Spend a few hours there and get back to Market Sqaure for lunch. WC at City Hall and see if the FLUSH exhibit is still going. Visit the Orthodox church and that would be almost time to head back to the ship.
@Leslie, the restaurant with the Elk Soup and Meat Pie is right at the Town Hall building by the square. Their WC is quite intersting as it is also very dark and literally a hole in a wall. Unfortuanetly, I don't have the name of the restaurant. I will check my pictures and see if I managed to capture the restaurant sign anywhere.
It will be a few days before I have a chance to look at the pictures, never mind looking through all of them. We snapped a couple hundreds of pictures a day (with much more than that in St. Petersburg) so after 2 weeks, it would be in the thousands. We typically would post only a handful of pictures per stop, unless we managed to have a bunch of really nice one.
That's one reason why we haven't post any picrures from our Europe trip from 2 years ago yet. We took literally thousands of pictures in Rome. We may have a record of over 12,000 pictures in the course of 2 weeks between me nad DW. Just very trigger happy, I guess. I have to get to them one of these days ...
This is the link to my webshot page:
http://community.webshots.com/user/e_s_c_h_e_w
We sort of snapped photoes along the way so I might have some of the places youmentioned captured digitally. In all hoensty, it was all a blur.
If we ever head back to Helsinki again, that's what we would do. Take a cab to Market Sqaure. Take the ferry to the island (a World Heritage Site). Spend a few hours there and get back to Market Sqaure for lunch. WC at City Hall and see if the FLUSH exhibit is still going. Visit the Orthodox church and that would be almost time to head back to the ship.
@Leslie, the restaurant with the Elk Soup and Meat Pie is right at the Town Hall building by the square. Their WC is quite intersting as it is also very dark and literally a hole in a wall. Unfortuanetly, I don't have the name of the restaurant. I will check my pictures and see if I managed to capture the restaurant sign anywhere.
It will be a few days before I have a chance to look at the pictures, never mind looking through all of them. We snapped a couple hundreds of pictures a day (with much more than that in St. Petersburg) so after 2 weeks, it would be in the thousands. We typically would post only a handful of pictures per stop, unless we managed to have a bunch of really nice one.
That's one reason why we haven't post any picrures from our Europe trip from 2 years ago yet. We took literally thousands of pictures in Rome. We may have a record of over 12,000 pictures in the course of 2 weeks between me nad DW. Just very trigger happy, I guess.
I have to get to them one of these days ... This is the link to my webshot page:
http://community.webshots.com/user/e_s_c_h_e_w
Jul 9th, 2012, 11:22 AM
#31
Eschew:
I know what you mean
I have a bucket list also, that is why I try not to return to the same place, unless it is part of another trip!
going to check out your pictures.
Leslie_S
Hey, That is exactly the restaurant I was thinking about..
I know what you mean
I have a bucket list also, that is why I try not to return to the same place, unless it is part of another trip!
going to check out your pictures.
Leslie_S
Hey, That is exactly the restaurant I was thinking about..
Jul 9th, 2012, 02:34 PM
#32
Guess I am the opposite.. I am not very trigger happy !!
I took 80 pictures in St. Petersburg for example and about 15 , 1-2 minute movies.
On my Africa Safari where people usually go "crazy " taking pictures ,I took 478 and about 30 , 1-3 minute movies.
I do so much research for a trip, that I see many of the places ahead of time.
I took 80 pictures in St. Petersburg for example and about 15 , 1-2 minute movies.
On my Africa Safari where people usually go "crazy " taking pictures ,I took 478 and about 30 , 1-3 minute movies.
I do so much research for a trip, that I see many of the places ahead of time.
Jul 10th, 2012, 09:42 AM
#33
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Percy, I am getting better. I am less trigger happy now. But I would still say I have a long way to go.
I was trigger happy even back in the non-digital days.
Without the fear of dating myself, I still remember my first camera (a half frame camera) so I can take 72 shots with a roll of 36, and that was back in the early 60's!
I was trigger happy even back in the non-digital days.
Without the fear of dating myself, I still remember my first camera (a half frame camera) so I can take 72 shots with a roll of 36, and that was back in the early 60's!
Jul 10th, 2012, 05:55 PM
#34
Wow !!!!! 72 shots , amazing
I have a "PHD " camera with 12 optical zoom.
I get by okay with it, for what I need.
I have a "PHD " camera with 12 optical zoom.
I get by okay with it, for what I need.
Jul 11th, 2012, 07:04 AM
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Digital photography - I think the ability to take so many pictures without worrying about the cost of film & developing is a double-edged sword. It's hard to find time to ever edit out the bad or duplicative shots once you dump them on your computer. My DH is good about backing up to an external hard-drive but I think a lot of people don't realize they can lose their whole history of photos in one fell swoop if their computer crashes or gets stolen.
Also, I feel like sometimes I'm worrying too much about lining up the next shot and not living in the moment. I've tried to cut back on shots and not spend every bit of each trip looking through a viewfinder.
FWIW!
Agree about not doubling back to the same country. Too many to go on my list still before I can start repeating!
Also, I feel like sometimes I'm worrying too much about lining up the next shot and not living in the moment. I've tried to cut back on shots and not spend every bit of each trip looking through a viewfinder.
FWIW!
Agree about not doubling back to the same country. Too many to go on my list still before I can start repeating!
Jul 11th, 2012, 08:30 AM
#36
I guess my point about not being trigger happy is that when I do my research, I see many of the major places.
Let's say I was going to London England for a week..and in my research folder for London I would have about 5-6 great pictures of Buckingham Palace....
then when I am in front of the gates of the Palace...I may take one picture only.....maybe two of I am in the second one .)
But what I do is at the next lunch or coffee/beer break I go over the pictures I just took that morning and delete those I do not want right away.!
Many times I quickly view them within minutes of taking them and delete right away those I do not want!!!
That is the pattern I follow for myself and it works for me.
Then by the time I get home, the pictures I have on my digital camera are those I am going to keep, I do not have to edit, as I have been editing all along
Let's say I was going to London England for a week..and in my research folder for London I would have about 5-6 great pictures of Buckingham Palace....
then when I am in front of the gates of the Palace...I may take one picture only.....maybe two of I am in the second one .)
But what I do is at the next lunch or coffee/beer break I go over the pictures I just took that morning and delete those I do not want right away.!
Many times I quickly view them within minutes of taking them and delete right away those I do not want!!!
That is the pattern I follow for myself and it works for me.
Then by the time I get home, the pictures I have on my digital camera are those I am going to keep, I do not have to edit, as I have been editing all along
Jul 11th, 2012, 02:31 PM
#37
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I am saving my battery. I don't look at the pictures until I got home. Time while on the road is precious. Only exception is to check and make sure I got the shot. Don't want to go home and find out that I didn't get the shot.
My habit is typically dumped all the pictures on the computer. Backed up to an external drive. Quick browse and delete antything that didn't turn out properly such as blurry or blocked shots.
I would look for duplicates and keep only one. The challenge now is that I carried a camera (or two) and DW also carried a
camera and after we loaded the pictures, they are all in the same folder but on separate sequences.
After that, backed up a second time, and overwrite the original back up.
There was a time that I took hundreds of shots and afetr all the deletions, I ended up with keeping less than 20.
My habit is typically dumped all the pictures on the computer. Backed up to an external drive. Quick browse and delete antything that didn't turn out properly such as blurry or blocked shots.
I would look for duplicates and keep only one. The challenge now is that I carried a camera (or two) and DW also carried a
camera and after we loaded the pictures, they are all in the same folder but on separate sequences.
After that, backed up a second time, and overwrite the original back up.
There was a time that I took hundreds of shots and afetr all the deletions, I ended up with keeping less than 20.
Jul 11th, 2012, 03:24 PM
#38
I chuckled when I read, " I am saving my battery " !!
Since my digital does not have the conventional batteries, I bring along a battery charger.
It is very small and my camera battery fits into the slot.
I also have those tiny adapters for almost every country.
I always go with two batteries. One in the camera and another fully charged in my camera case which is always with me.
I am sure we all have a pattern which of storing and editing pictures which works best for us .
Since my digital does not have the conventional batteries, I bring along a battery charger.
It is very small and my camera battery fits into the slot.
I also have those tiny adapters for almost every country.
I always go with two batteries. One in the camera and another fully charged in my camera case which is always with me.
I am sure we all have a pattern which of storing and editing pictures which works best for us .
Jul 12th, 2012, 06:23 AM
#39
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Yep, everyone has a system that works for them!
I saw one woman in the Galapagos taking her pictures with a disposable Kodak. Very much in contrast to the many fancy cameras and people who are taking hundreds or thousands of shots and consider that a once in a lifetime photo opportunity. Her system worked for her needs I guess!
I saw one woman in the Galapagos taking her pictures with a disposable Kodak. Very much in contrast to the many fancy cameras and people who are taking hundreds or thousands of shots and consider that a once in a lifetime photo opportunity. Her system worked for her needs I guess!
